TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
But neither is my Governor here in WA.
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
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TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I would say if anything the pandemic just hastened the economic shifts that were already happening.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Which major metro centers did not shut down in the US? Can you give similar sized metro centers that did to compare to? I'm not being facetious, I really don't know.
People too sick to walk and talk and breathe unassisted were going to go and do their 40 hours at their 9 to 5? Were going to go shopping for groceries, gas, clothes? Blame big bad government if you like, but the shutdowns likely saved lives and, if you want to be mercenary about it, jobs and money losses that would have been worse. Dead people don't work, don't make money, don't spend money.
I can't speak to Abbott, but DeSantis isn't begging for businesses to come back because the money makers in the state are agriculture and tourists, neither of which can easily relocate. You want to go to Disney on this side of the rockies or Miami Beach, your options are kind of limited. It's here or nowhere. Likewise, if you make your business selling orange juice, good fucking luck packing the farm up and taking it to Wisconsin or wherever.
edited to add: DeSantis can mug like a tough guy for the cameras, but the actual businesses tell a different story: Disney shut down voluntarily -- this is a place that doesn't shut down for anything, ever. Even when they opened in a limited paranoid fashion again, all their office workers were remote. After Trump's "keep them offshore to make the numbers look good" fiasco, the cruise companies -- which bring tourists, but are registered in the Caribbean islands for tax reasons, so don't count as "American businesses" if you want to split hairs -- knew they were on their own. And when they did open in small ways, they had breakouts. So now they're doing vaccination passports voluntarily and non-vax'd cruise travellers are treated like second class citizens, because they're goddamned plague rats and fuck 'em.
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Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
It really frees Texas and Florida up to beg for other things instead.
CBS Texas - Breaking Local News, First Alert Weather & I-Team Investigations
Latest breaking news from CBS11 KTVT-TV | KTXA-TV.
dfw.cbslocal.com
Florida Hospitals Fighting to Get Oxygen With ‘Hand Tied’
Florida hospitals are struggling to get oxygen due to a rise in Covid-19 cases attributable to the delta variant and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s decision not to declare another state of emergency.
www.bloomberg.com
15 years ago only 7 CEO's were paid more than $25 Million a year. Today it is the norm for CEOs of fortune 500 companies.
CEO compensations surged coming out of the recession and again with the pandemic. Meanwhile the working class has only seen stagnant wages. CEO's are not just making $25 Mil a year at that, but getting paid grossly higher amounts.
CEOs are being compensated like they are god like figures solely responsible for bringing in the revenue of a business.
CEO compensations surged coming out of the recession and again with the pandemic. Meanwhile the working class has only seen stagnant wages. CEO's are not just making $25 Mil a year at that, but getting paid grossly higher amounts.
CEOs are being compensated like they are god like figures solely responsible for bringing in the revenue of a business.
And most of their fortune doesn't come from their CEO compensation, but instead the amount of company stock they are given. Often times, the wealthy like to use these stocks as collateral on loans, which banks are more than happy to give. Thus, they can be paid millions of dollars in salary, take out loans using their company stock as collateral, and if they take out enough loans, on paper, they look like they are in debt, and that's partially how they get out of paying taxes on their salaries.
Consider Bezos’ 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes. Amazon’s stock more than doubled. Bezos’ fortune leapt $3.8 billion, according to Forbes, whose wealth estimates are widely cited. How did a person enjoying that sort of wealth explosion end up paying no income tax?
In that year, Bezos, who filed his taxes jointly with his then-wife, MacKenzie Scott, reported a paltry (for him) $46 million in income, largely from interest and dividend payments on outside investments. He was able to offset every penny he earned with losses from side investments and various deductions, like interest expenses on debts and the vague catchall category of “other expenses.”
In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.
His tax avoidance is even more striking if you examine 2006 to 2018, a period for which ProPublica has complete data. Bezos’ wealth increased by $127 billion, according to Forbes, but he reported a total of $6.5 billion in income. The $1.4 billion he paid in personal federal taxes is a massive number — yet it amounts to a 1.1% true tax rate on the rise in his fortune.
The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax
ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing.
www.propublica.org
Max Sterling
Well-Known Member
The government GAVE Bezos a $4000 tax credit for his children because he "made so little" with holdings around $18 Billion... I have never felt stronger cannibalistic urges then I do reading that sentence...And most of their fortune doesn't come from their CEO compensation, but instead the amount of company stock they are given. Often times, the wealthy like to use these stocks as collateral on loans, which banks are more than happy to give. Thus, they can be paid millions of dollars in salary, take out loans using their company stock as collateral, and if they take out enough loans, on paper, they look like they are in debt, and that's partially how they get out of paying taxes on their salaries.
Consider Bezos’ 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes. Amazon’s stock more than doubled. Bezos’ fortune leapt $3.8 billion, according to Forbes, whose wealth estimates are widely cited. How did a person enjoying that sort of wealth explosion end up paying no income tax?
In that year, Bezos, who filed his taxes jointly with his then-wife, MacKenzie Scott, reported a paltry (for him) $46 million in income, largely from interest and dividend payments on outside investments. He was able to offset every penny he earned with losses from side investments and various deductions, like interest expenses on debts and the vague catchall category of “other expenses.”
In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.
His tax avoidance is even more striking if you examine 2006 to 2018, a period for which ProPublica has complete data. Bezos’ wealth increased by $127 billion, according to Forbes, but he reported a total of $6.5 billion in income. The $1.4 billion he paid in personal federal taxes is a massive number — yet it amounts to a 1.1% true tax rate on the rise in his fortune.
The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax
ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I wonder just how mad we should be at the billionaires specifically for the tax stuff. I mean, hate them for their rapacious greed, sure. But...it's not like Bezos is sitting down at his desktop and firing up TurboTax to avoid millions of dollars in payments to the government, you know? Guy has an army of accountants handling these assets, who I have to imagine are themselves incentivized in all kinds of terrible ways to find every loophole that exists to minimize their clients' tax liabilities. Becoming a CEO doesn't somehow automatically grant someone an intimate knowledge of tax code and payment avoidance.
Anyway, this thought brought to you by imagining a billionaire trying to import his W-2 into some buggy tax software.
Anyway, this thought brought to you by imagining a billionaire trying to import his W-2 into some buggy tax software.
Djxfactor511
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've always had this mentality as well. I don't think billionaires should exist, but I don't blame them for using our tax laws to legally pay next to nothing. I blame the politicians who refuse or don't have the political capital to change the system.
I think the elephant in the room is that they use their insane wealth to influence government creation of tax law in the first place and to lobby against anyone even thinking that billionaires should even consider paying an equitable tax rate.
Djxfactor511
Well-Known Member
Oh absolutely.
Max Sterling
Well-Known Member
That's definitely what's happening, and I completely understand using the loop holes to pay less taxes, but to claim that $4000 tax credit? That's not meant for him. What even is $4000 to a guy like Bezos? Like... that's too far, to me. It'd be like a CEO leaving his office in a New York Sky Scraper and walking down to the soup kitchen in a ratty coat, getting a free lunch, then heading back to his top floor office.
Djxfactor511
Well-Known Member
It takes Bezos 0.03 minutes to make $4,000 according to a handy calculator that I found from Google.
Edit: To be clear this wasn't a "let me Google this for you post", but reading over my wording it may have come across that way - sorry!
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Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Yeah but I guess what I'm saying is that it's more like Bezos' assistant going down and getting that free soup and then bringing it back to him. The buck stops with him, no doubt. But it wouldn't surprise me at. all. if he learned about his claim of that tax credit through the same news story that you and I learned about it from. He's just some guy paying other people with a mission statement that I imagine amounts to "keep me rich and save me money." To Joe's point, that directive obviously has far-reaching and profound implications in how it's applied by the people who have a financial incentive to do so. But how far into the weeds is he personally going about each and every deduction or credit? I genuinely don't know the answer to the question of just how familiar the hyper-rich are with their own taxes.
Max Sterling
Well-Known Member
lol, I did not take it that way. I just couldn't choose between the wow, sad, or anger emojis.
You're most likely correct that he's probably not telling someone "get me that damn child credit or you're fired!" and probably doesn't even know about it. But he should, because it's being done in his name and when the guillotines get built, no one's going to reach for the executive assistants first.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Completely agree. It's not right, and it's his responsibility. There's just a lot of energy misspent on this dweeb instead of chipping away at the imbalances that allowed him to achieve such absurd wealth.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
It really frees Texas and Florida up to beg for other things instead.
CBS Texas - Breaking Local News, First Alert Weather & I-Team Investigations
Latest breaking news from CBS11 KTVT-TV | KTXA-TV.Florida Hospitals Fighting to Get Oxygen With ‘Hand Tied’
Florida hospitals are struggling to get oxygen due to a rise in Covid-19 cases attributable to the delta variant and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s decision not to declare another state of emergency.
He may be begging for votes also.
New Poll: Floridians Are Getting Tired of DeSantis' COVID-19 Response - News & Guts Media
It’s true in both physics and politics: for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In Florida, Republican Governor Ron DeSantis has seen his approval rating plunge as COVID-19 cases soar. A new poll shows that 44% of Florida voters approve of their outspoken governor. That’s...
www.newsandguts.com
AnthonyI
Well-Known Member
LOL, welcome to human nature. They all support him and get all "MERICA"ed up while nothing is effecting them, now that more and more are getting sick and that same group is "all of a sudden" getting sick they're looking for someone to blame..........even if he was their voice of reason a month ago. Trumps America on full display.He may be begging for votes also.
New Poll: Floridians Are Getting Tired of DeSantis' COVID-19 Response - News & Guts Media
It’s true in both physics and politics: for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In Florida, Republican Governor Ron DeSantis has seen his approval rating plunge as COVID-19 cases soar. A new poll shows that 44% of Florida voters approve of their outspoken governor. That’s...