Political Discussion

[RenegadeMonster]

I could swear they said their counting was accurate with no irregularities except the the outcome wasn't to their liking...............I'm gonna refer back to @Chucktshoes now, because he's pushing a very compelling argument as of late, lol

Well, to their credit, the election committee that certified their vote and said there were no irregularities are the same people as these lawmakers.

The GOP lawmakers appear to be taking a page out of Trumps playbook. And as far as I can tell, they haven't said what these irregularities were. Just that there were irregularities which is what much of Trumps base believes, "The Big Lie", and are using it to their advantage.

One thing I also forgot to mention in my post above is is Georgia Republicans also say this bill also restores a fair and balanced election. Which can be read, keep the power tipped in their direction so land mass wins over population.

 

[AnthonyI]

Well, to their credit, the election committee that certified their vote and said there were no irregularities are the same people as these lawmakers.

The GOP lawmakers appear to be taking a page out of Trumps playbook. And as far as I can tell, they haven't said what these irregularities were. Just that there were irregularities which is what much of Trumps base believes, "The Big Lie", and are using it to their advantage.

One thing I also forgot to mention in my post above is is Georgia Republicans also say this bill also restores a fair and balanced election. Which can be read, keep the power tipped in their direction so land mass wins over population.

I had to quote because this emoji is missing from the Like list............

 

[nolalady]

I’m one of those who fell off the subsidy cliff. I haven’t had insurance since 2016. For me to have insurance for my family would run us over $2000 and a $6k deductible to then have 50% coinsurance. So $30k+ out of pocket before insurance pays a dime.

Prior to the ACA the company I contract for was able to arrange a group plan for the independent contractors that was affordable and of reasonable coverage. The experiences of people like me are why some folks think the ACA is working exactly as planned. I do believe it was designed to be the total failure it is in order to increase support for a MFA system.

You know I wish I could believe that this was put into place in order to fail and usher in a M4A system, but I think the reason we don't talk about M4A is because private insurance and large hospital systems don't want it--so it's not even a politically viable option. To me, ACA was meant to be a band aid on a gaping wound (so it was inadequate to start). I think a few progressives thought this would be how we would get to M4A, and honestly, so did I, but after dealing with ACA for 8 years, I think it was private business's answer to what should probably be a public service. We are dealing with a bunch of monopolies (our health insurance companies just keep getting bought out by a bigger guy). It's against their interests to see prices for medical services go down, so if you can't use your benefits because you don't have enough to pay the deductible, it's your problem. Their job was to give you "access" to healthcare, not healthcare. This is what happens when we allow unregulated monopolies to do whatever they want because they pay off our politicians.

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

 

[Chucktshoes]

You know I wish I could believe that this was put into place in order to fail and usher in a M4A system, but I think the reason we don't talk about M4A is because private insurance and large hospital systems don't want it--so it's not even a politically viable option. To me, ACA was meant to be a band aid on a gaping wound (so it was inadequate to start). I think a few progressives thought this would be how we would get to M4A, and honestly, so did I, but after dealing with ACA for 8 years, I think it was private business's answer to what should probably be a public service. We are dealing with a bunch of monopolies (our health insurance companies just keep getting bought out by a bigger guy). It's against their interests to see prices for medical services go down, so if you can't use your benefits because you don't have enough to pay the deductible, it's your problem. Their job was to give you "access" to healthcare, not healthcare. This is what happens when we allow unregulated monopolies to do whatever they want because they pay off our politicians.

And this is where our worldviews cause us to diverge. We recognize the the same problems, the incestuous relationship between corporate interests and politics, but our solutions are vastly different. I recognize that government intervention caused this issue so reject the idea that government intervention can fix it. It’s simply not in their interests to do so.

I view some form of M4A as an inevitability, but I just don’t view that as a positive thing.

 

[wokeupnew]

 

[RenegadeMonster]

And this is where our worldviews cause us to diverge. We recognize the the same problems, the incestuous relationship between corporate interests and politics, but our solutions are vastly different. I recognize that government intervention caused this issue so reject the idea that government intervention can fix it. It’s simply not in their interests to do so.

I view some form of M4A as an inevitability, but I just don’t view that as a positive thing.

For me, I only think M4A is a positive thing if we go all in. We can't do it half ass with a mix of private and public portions. It doesn't solve the issues we face such as sky high prices and in-network / out-of-network. I think any measure that does not go far enough will just place chaos and uncertainty in the market causing prices to go further up.

 

[Max Sterling]

And this is where our worldviews cause us to diverge. We recognize the the same problems, the incestuous relationship between corporate interests and politics, but our solutions are vastly different. I recognize that government intervention caused this issue so reject the idea that government intervention can fix it. It’s simply not in their interests to do so.

I view some form of M4A as an inevitability, but I just don’t view that as a positive thing.

I can kind of get that but I think it's less a problem of "Government can't fix this" and more a problem of "this current government won't fix this."

I believe we need representatives in place to make these types of decisions for everyone. I just really think we need to change the way we choose those representatives and aggressively limit the power and benefits they can gain from their positions.

 

[wokeupnew]

I just really think we need to change the way we choose those representatives and aggressively limit the power and benefits they can gain from their positions.

Bingo.

Make government a difficult position with little to no personal benefits only with above average pay. There would be no vile GOPers (I’m thinking of Loeffler specifically, who take advantage of insider knowledge) or Dems in the ranks because they can’t personally benefit from it.

 

[Chucktshoes]

For me, I only think M4A is a positive thing if we go all in. We can't do it half ass with a mix of private and public portions. It doesn't solve the issues we face such as sky high prices and in-network / out-of-network. I think any measure that does not go far enough will just place chaos and uncertainty in the market causing prices to go further up.

Each would be varying degrees of awful.

I can kind of get that but I think it's less a problem of "Government can't fix this" and more a problem of "this current government won't fix this."

I believe we need representatives in place to make these types of decisions for everyone. I just really think we need to change the way we choose those representatives and aggressively limit the power and benefits they can gain from their positions.

Please don’t take this as a personal attack or insult. That idea is based upon as rose colored fantastical view of the nature and abilities of government and the people involved in it as Margret Mead’s view of the antebellum South.

 

[Joe Mac]

Bingo.

Make government a difficult position with little to no personal benefits only with above average pay. There would be no vile GOPers (I’m thinking of Loeffler specifically, who take advantage of insider knowledge) or Dems in the ranks because they can’t personally benefit from it.

That sounds like a recipe for even more endemic corruption than we already have...

 

[Chucktshoes]

Bingo.

Make government a difficult position with little to no personal benefits only with above average pay. There would be no vile GOPers (I’m thinking of Loeffler specifically, who take advantage of insider knowledge) or Dems in the ranks because they can’t personally benefit from it.

@Max Sterling I do agree with you and @wokeupnew on this point though. Don’t think I made that clear in my last post.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

House cancels Thursday session after security agencies cite risk of new violence — The Wall Street Journal

House leaders canceled Thursday’s legislative session and rescheduled morning votes after police officials warned of a possible plot by a militia group to again storm the Capitol.

apple.news

Yikes, I thought my father was full of it when he said shit was going to down tomorrow. The day the constitution says a president is inaugurated.

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

House cancels Thursday session after security agencies cite risk of new violence — The Wall Street Journal

House leaders canceled Thursday’s legislative session and rescheduled morning votes after police officials warned of a possible plot by a militia group to again storm the Capitol.

apple.news

Yikes, I thought my father was full of it when he said shit was going to down tomorrow. The day the constitution says a president is inaugurated.

You dad is full of it but that’s the problem. It’s a precautionary likely overreaction to people like your Pop buzzing about this BS online.

 

[Chucktshoes]

House cancels Thursday session after security agencies cite risk of new violence — The Wall Street Journal

House leaders canceled Thursday’s legislative session and rescheduled morning votes after police officials warned of a possible plot by a militia group to again storm the Capitol.

apple.news

Yikes, I thought my father was full of it when he said shit was going to down tomorrow. The day the constitution says a president is inaugurated.

I agree wit TLK, your dad is a wack job and like others have said before, setting some hard boundaries with him wouldn’t be a bad idea at all. He’s clearly a toxic influence in your life. I once had to cut ties with my mom for several years, I know how hard it can be.

Sorry if I overstepped, just something that’s been bubbling up as I’ve read back a few months in this thread.

 

[nolalady]

And this is where our worldviews cause us to diverge. We recognize the the same problems, the incestuous relationship between corporate interests and politics, but our solutions are vastly different. I recognize that government intervention caused this issue so reject the idea that government intervention can fix it. It’s simply not in their interests to do so.

I view some form of M4A as an inevitability, but I just don’t view that as a positive thing.

That’s cool. My BFF has a lot of your same world view. She’s fun to debate with.

Bingo.

Make government a difficult position with little to no personal benefits only with above average pay. There would be no vile GOPers (I’m thinking of Loeffler specifically, who take advantage of insider knowledge) or Dems in the ranks because they can’t personally benefit from it.

Just make them do what we all do, put their portfolios in ETFs and make it so they can’t touch them until they are out of office.

 

[Chucktshoes]

That’s cool. My BFF has a lot of your same world view. She’s fun to debate with.

It’s always good when you have someone whom you like, or even at the very least respect, that holds such differing views to debate with. That’s something that is becoming clearer to me. If you can’t engage with the other human being, as a human being, there’s no point in even bothering. In addition, if you don’t already hold that standing in someone’s life, your opinions are worthless to that person. Save the energy for places it will be of value.

That was part of the issue with my prior engagements with folks here before and will inform my ongoing discussions in this thread. I need to recognize when the friction is about ideas, or people. There are some folks on here I just don’t like. I guarantee that some folks here just don’t like me. That’s ok. It’s on me to resist the urge to tie into it with someone whom I simply don’t like. As far as what others do, that’s not on me.

 

[Djxfactor511]

It’s always good when you have someone whom you like, or even at the very least respect, that holds such differing views to debate with. That’s something that is becoming clearer to me. If you can’t engage with the other human being, as a human being, there’s no point in even bothering. In addition, if you don’t already hold that standing in someone’s life, your opinions are worthless to that person. Save the energy for places it will be of value.

That was part of the issue with my prior engagements with folks here before and will inform my ongoing discussions in this thread. I need to recognize when the friction is about ideas, or people. There are some folks on here I just don’t like. I guarantee that some folks here just don’t like me. That’s ok. It’s on me to resist the urge to tie into it with someone whom I simply don’t like. As far as what others do, that’s not on me.

I, for one, appreciate you being back, Chuck. For this exact reason.

 

[TrainFan73]

I’ve always thought that you, @Chucktshoes , are a valuable part of this thread because it tends to be a very effective echo chamber.

This is becoming more of a problem for me in life in general because I’ve excised toxicity from my social media and in my role at work, there is not a lot of room to allow me to really openly express my views, much less have a debate with someone.

 

[Space Wanderer]

Each would be varying degrees of awful.

Please don’t take this as a personal attack or insult. That idea is based upon as rose colored fantastical view of the nature and abilities of government and the people involved in it as Margret Mead’s view of the antebellum South.

Is there an institution (or group of people, or whatever) that in your estimation is possessed of the “nature and abilities” required to deliver healthcare to people in an efficient and humane manner?