Phono pre-amplifier (phonostage) upgrades

Angsty said:
I’ve heard mixed reviews on the Skoll. The biggest criticism I’ve heard is that the LF filter is set too high at 120 Hz knee on the cutoff frequency. What has been your experience so far?
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I have no complaints on the sound it's putting out. I do have complaints on the unit I got that came with manufacturing defects which is now sitting in a box to get shipped back, and their somewhat slow CS replies. But I'm excited for the replacement, because what I was able to do with this one in a couple days was impressive.

The only person I've seen mention that the LF filter is set to high hadn't heard it and also doesn't like vinyl. Haven't seen that criticism from anyone who's used one yet. Could be out there and might bother someone, but nothing I noticed having a negative effect in my few test runs before I boxed it back up.
 
A friend of mine has an outstanding system that is currently only digital (streaming and CD) but he’s considering breaking out his turntable again and looking at phono stages. He seems to be most drawn to units in the 300-500 range, and he’s always going to go used because he loves finding a deal.

For those of you that know the current market at that price range better than I do, what would be your go to recommendation?
 
displayname said:
A friend of mine has an outstanding system that is currently only digital (streaming and CD) but he’s considering breaking out his turntable again and looking at phono stages. He seems to be most drawn to units in the 300-500 range, and he’s always going to go used because he loves finding a deal.

For those of you that know the current market at that price range better than I do, what would be your go to recommendation?
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That’s a tough price range new or used. I really liked my Vincent PHO-8 when I had it. There’s a used one on USAM for $200 shipped.

www.usaudiomart.com

Vincent Audio PHO-8 Phono Preamp

Vincent Audio PHO-8 Phono Preamp.The one for people who dont like wall warts.Very well regarded for the price. A huge step up from cheapie pro-ject and the like.simple switch for Moving Magnet or Moving Coil loads.I have original box, cords and paperwork.$200 includes shipping to continental USA...
www.usaudiomart.com www.usaudiomart.com
 
displayname said:
A friend of mine has an outstanding system that is currently only digital (streaming and CD) but he’s considering breaking out his turntable again and looking at phono stages. He seems to be most drawn to units in the 300-500 range, and he’s always going to go used because he loves finding a deal.

For those of you that know the current market at that price range better than I do, what would be your go to recommendation?
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I’ve been looking at the offerings from Michael Fidler at Classic Audio UK: the Spartan 5 and Spartan 15. Both are MM only units but the engineering is impeccable at their price points. The subsonic filter and mono switch together are not that common below $500.

I’m not at a point where I’m buying this type of phono anymore, but if I could roll back in time to when I was, the Spartan 5 would be my first phono.

SPARTAN 5 Moving Magnet Phono Stage by Michael Fidler

Economical low noise moving magnet phonostage with mono switch, subsonic filter, linear power supply, and accurate RIAA equalisation
michaelfidler.com michaelfidler.com
 
HiFi Guy said:
My experience is that any integrated phono stage is a compromise. I tried the built in that the NAD C165 preamp offered. The MM section wasn’t bad, but the MC section was awful. I tried the built in from the Rogue Pharoah and it was average at best.

I’ve owned the following phono stages:

Vincent PHO-8- $300 and it bested both built ins easily.

iFi Audio IPhono2- sounded fantastic when it worked. Put me off the brand forever.

Sutherland Vibe V1-cost nearly double the iPhono2 and didn’t sound as good. Returned for…

Sutherland Insight. Now we are cooking. Kept it for a couple of years. Sold for:

Sutherland Duo. End game 4 years later.

If I come across the right deal on a used Manley Steelhead RC, that’s the only thing I’d trade the Duo for.
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They must have done something to improve with the Pharoah II because the reviewer at Stereophile said this in his review "It showed me the best phono stage I've ever found in an integrated amp. No question, I got more than what I asked for."
 
Jbraswell said:
They must have done something to improve with the Pharoah II because the reviewer at Stereophile said this in his review "It showed me the best phono stage I've ever found in an integrated amp. No question, I got more than what I asked for."
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Meh. People seem very likely to overrate an integrated amp’s phono stage. I saw a review of the 3050 that said its stage was great at the amp’s price point. I’ve said it barely beats the Pluto v.1. I’m mostly doing cd next because I lost it but also to determine if I need a preamp thrown in the mix for this thing.
 
Lee Newman said:
Meh. People seem very likely to overrate an integrated amp’s phono stage. I saw a review of the 3050 that said its stage was great at the amp’s price point. I’ve said it barely beats the Pluto v.1. I’m mostly doing cd next because I lost it but also to determine if I need a preamp thrown in the mix for this thing.
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Yeah I take several of these reviews as biased. Especially when they need advertisers to keep the bills paid.

Integrated is very convenient and a great place to start with a system. A ton of value with a good unit.
It quickly became obvious to me trying to upgrade sections of the integrated sends you down the path of swapping out the integrated altogether.
 
Jbraswell said:
Yeah I take several of these reviews as biased. Especially when they need advertisers to keep the bills paid.

Integrated is very convenient and a great place to start with a system. A ton of value with a good unit.
It quickly became obvious to me trying to upgrade sections of the integrated sends you down the path of swapping out the integrated altogether.
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Meh. I don’t foresee me going separate dac and the amp does some special things that will probably make it an end stage for me. If I’m happy with the integrated’s dac on the cd player (which is really dependent on whether or not the cd’s dac bests it)… a phono, speakers and turntable over the next three to five years will put me with whatever I’ll probably have forever unless I win the lottery or something.
 
Lee Newman said:
Meh. I don’t foresee me going separate dac and the amp does some special things that will probably make it an end stage for me. If I’m happy with the integrated’s dac on the cd player (which is really dependent on whether or not the cd’s dac bests it)… a phono, speakers and turntable over the next three to five years will put me with whatever I’ll probably have forever unless I win the lottery or something.
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Yeah man, enjoy the journey! We're all trying to figure it out.

DAC is pretty low on my list because I just don't stream much unless I am in the car.
 
Jbraswell said:
Yeah man, enjoy the journey! We're all trying to figure it out.

DAC is pretty low on my list because I just don't stream much unless I am in the car.
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BluOS has very much changed the way I listen to music. Having access to quality streaming over the hifi has changed my enjoyment of new music Fridays (which was already a pretty big deal for me) and completely changed how I buy vinyl, even before a more stringent budget made it necessary.
 
DAC is low because I don’t know. CD player could completely change that or keep me satisfied.
 
Lee Newman said:
DAC is low because I don’t know. CD player could completely change that or keep me satisfied.
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I’ve heard relatively little difference between DACs compared to phonostages. The DAC in my preamp sounds exactly the same to me as the DAC in my CD player and my standalone DAC. I have the CD player connected via both RCA and digital coax to my preamp - no difference at all when I flick the selector switch.

On the other hand, every phonostage I have used sounds different.
 
Angsty said:
I’ve heard relatively little difference between DACs compared to phonostages. The DAC in my preamp sounds exactly the same to me as the DAC in my CD player and my standalone DAC. I have the CD player connected via both RCA and digital coax to my preamp - no difference at all when I flick the selector switch.

On the other hand, every phonostage I have used sounds different.
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i mean if I can’t tell the difference or it is basically neglible, I’ll be done.
 
Angsty said:
I’ve heard relatively little difference between DACs compared to phonostages. The DAC in my preamp sounds exactly the same to me as the DAC in my CD player and my standalone DAC. I have the CD player connected via both RCA and digital coax to my preamp - no difference at all when I flick the selector switch.

On the other hand, every phonostage I have used sounds different.
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I will say that when I was going through portable DACs to use on Tidal through my phone there were definitely big differences between each of them although once I reached about $400 in terms of price level I didn't really notice much of a difference above that point, even running through several thousand dollar portables. But in the $15 to $400 there were some pretty noticeable differences in terms of stage and fidelity.
 
HiFi Guy said:
My experience is that any integrated phono stage is a compromise. I tried the built in that the NAD C165 preamp offered. The MM section wasn’t bad, but the MC section was awful. I tried the built in from the Rogue Pharoah and it was average at best.

I’ve owned the following phono stages:

Vincent PHO-8- $300 and it bested both built ins easily.

iFi Audio IPhono2- sounded fantastic when it worked. Put me off the brand forever.

Sutherland Vibe V1-cost nearly double the iPhono2 and didn’t sound as good. Returned for…

Sutherland Insight. Now we are cooking. Kept it for a couple of years. Sold for:

Sutherland Duo. End game 4 years later.

If I come across the right deal on a used Manley Steelhead RC, that’s the only thing I’d trade the Duo for.
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If it’s about greater adjustability with the Steelhead I understand. If it’s all about sound quality then make sure you do a head to head comparo in your system before buying the Manley. As you already know, the Duo sounds exquisite. 👍
 
OMC said:
If it’s about greater adjustability with the Steelhead I understand. If it’s all about sound quality then make sure you do a head to head comparo in your system before buying the Manley. As you already know, the Duo sounds exquisite. 👍
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I’ve been reading quite a bit recently about how MC cartridge impedance matching matters less than I believed when I first started. An update to the Hagerman Labs loading site now seems to reflect this viewpoint.

 
OMC said:
If it’s about greater adjustability with the Steelhead I understand. If it’s all about sound quality then make sure you do a head to head comparo in your system before buying the Manley. As you already know, the Duo sounds exquisite. 👍
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The Steelhead is a killer phono stage that also has a passive input for my DAC. So that and a pair of Mahi power amps is the dream. Spendy though.
 
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