Phono pre-amplifier (phonostage) upgrades

Angsty

Angsty

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I’ve come to think that phono pre-amp upgrades are the least understood and most underrated of vinyl system upgrades.

I’ve made three phono upgrades in my vinyl journey and each revealed more than the one before.

What has been your experience with phono upgrades that you’d want to share? How did you know when it was time to look elsewhere for improvement?
 
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Angsty said:
I’ve come to think that phono pre-amp upgrades are the least understood and most underrated of vinyl system upgrades.

I’ve made three phono upgrades in my vinyl journey and each revealed more than the one before.

What has been your experience with phono upgrades that you’d want to share? How did you know when it was time to look elsewhere for improvement?
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I had an lp60 and used that phonostage until the kids at the old site convinced me to get the uturn and I upgraded to the Pluto. I auditioned the forum’s Darlington lab phono and it made it very apparent that my amp was bottlenecking everything. This led to the nad c3050 and its phono is slightly better than the Pluto. Next upgrade will be dependent on which dac I like better with the cd player I end up getting.
 
Angsty said:
I’ve come to think that phono pre-amp upgrades are the least understood and most underrated of vinyl system upgrades.

I’ve made three phono upgrades in my vinyl journey and each revealed more than the one before.

What has been your experience with phono upgrades that you’d want to share? How did you know when it was time to look elsewhere for improvement?
Click to expand...
This is a little dated, but still accurate based on my experience with all of these. The number column is the order I got each one.

I can say with certainty these were the upgrade paths:

Main System: Pluto > Vincent Pho-8 > iPhono 2 > KC Vibe > Insight > Manley Chinook
Second System: Studio Phono > LX-LPS > Jolida JD9 >Insight

The Insight ended up being the "end game for system 2 when we picked up the Chinook, and around mid June 2022 we consolidated down to 1 system keeping the the Manley Chinook.

Capture.PNG

The 1-10 is my "how much better then" scale, of course this was based on my system and preferences. It's always a daunting, yet fun, road ;)
 
Only standalone photo I’ve had is the MX-VYNL. Have been hugely impressed with it as an initial upgrade over the internal preamp on my old Sony integrated and how it has stepped up every time I’ve had an upgrade, including upgrading it with the SBooster Ultra Linear Power Supply, and it has never appeared as a weakness. It’d take a lot for me to replace it.
 
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The U-Turn Pluto measures out well.
It is up to the listener to decide
audiosciencereview.com

U-Turn Pluto 2 Review (Phono Preamp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the U-Turn Audio Pluto 2 phono stage (preamplifier). It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me for testing. It costs US $99 from dealers. The Pluto 2 comes in a nicely done and solid meta box: It only supports moving magnet...
audiosciencereview.com audiosciencereview.com

I am trying the Darlington Labs MM 6B
and the Waxwing
 
Middle Earth said:
The U-Turn Pluto measures out well.
It is up to the listener to decide
audiosciencereview.com

U-Turn Pluto 2 Review (Phono Preamp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the U-Turn Audio Pluto 2 phono stage (preamplifier). It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me for testing. It costs US $99 from dealers. The Pluto 2 comes in a nicely done and solid meta box: It only supports moving magnet...
audiosciencereview.com audiosciencereview.com

I am trying the Darlington Labs MM 6B
and the Waxwing
Click to expand...
Yeah I don’t know about @kvetcha but @AnthonyI (I believe) and I ran a first generation.
 
I’ll also say this about the Pluto. It was fine and quiet. It also had no character whatsoever.

Also reading that review, I’m betting the layout is the same on the first gen and I’m willing to bet that was the reason for the slight hum when I cranked the old amp. I bet it would have disappeared if I had moved the phono.
 
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AnthonyI said:
That's where I am with the Chinook.........and pretty much everything else.
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Yeah I think the only thing I’d change is the DAC/Preamp, potentially the table although that’ll only ever be if it failed, but even then I’d rather not any time soon. I’m happy not spending money on gear, my system is good, and just enjoying music.
 
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Joe Mac said:
Yeah I think the only thing I’d change is the DAC/Preamp, potentially the table although that’ll only ever be if it failed, but even that I’d rather not any time soon. I’m happy not spending money on gear, my system is good, and just enjoying music.
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Same, I'll take peak at speakers now and then, but come back around to "why" for the most part. Also look at DAC's, but my CD listening hasn't reached a level worth investing any money in to just yet. The Multibit is more than sufficient.
 
AnthonyI said:
Same, I'll take peak at speakers now and then, but come back around to "why" for the most part. Also look at DAC's, but my CD listening hasn't reached a level worth investing any money in to just yet. The Multibit is more than sufficient.
Click to expand...

The DAC/Preamp is more the fact I had a couple of hicups with it last year but it seems to be working fine again for now so 🤞🏻it’s not necessary but I have a bit of an eye on them just in case. I know people might look at my table given the rest of the system but it’s definitely had a good bit a stretch with upgraded parts and as I’m sure I’ve said before given how I got it I don’t really want to get rid of it unless I have to.
 
This is an interesting query.
Angsty said:
I’ve come to think that phono pre-amp upgrades are the least understood and most underrated of vinyl system upgrades.

I’ve made three phono upgrades in my vinyl journey and each revealed more than the one before.

What has been your experience with phono upgrades that you’d want to share? How did you know when it was time to look elsewhere for improvement?
Click to expand...
Timely question as phono stage improvement is the next step in my audio journey. I got back into vinyl about 4 years ago with the purchase of a Project DC Evo that I connected to my Yamaha as301. All was good for about 6 months as I got curious about what I could improve.

I picked up a Project Phono Box S2 and it made a huge improvement. It’s probably, $ for $, one of the best audio upgrades I ever made.

When it came time to upgrade my amp I tested a Marantz PM8006 which had a very good Phono stage. I would say it was on par with the S2. I ended up going with a Cambridge Audio CXA81 and kept the S2 which is still serving me well.

Out of curiosity I have recently auditioned the iFi Zen Phono and the Project Tube Box S2. Both tested with the Evo TT. I really liked the Zen Phono. Its noise floor wasn’t as quiet as the S2, but it had a slightly more open soundstage and overall good dynamics. Noise floor decreased and soundstage and dynamics improved once I added an iPower X power supply. Not a huge improvement, but noticeable.

While testing the Zen Phono I came across an open box deal on the Tube Box S2 and decided to give it a try. I also decided to pick up a Project Power Box S3 as well. This power supply provides power to the Project preamp and TT. While testing the Tube Box I determined it had a grounding problem that resulted in an hum and returned it. Despite that I was able to get a sense of how the Tube Box sounded and didn’t find it to be an improvement over the PB S2 especially once I added the power supply upgrade.

The PB S2 with the power supply upgrade sounds pretty good to me. Quiet noise floor and good dynamics. I’m not sure how much the power supply upgrade improved the sound of the TT, but I feel like it is money well spent.

I have since picked up a MoFi Ultradeck and the PB S2 is performing well with it. I have a Darlington Lab MP7B on order and will report back with an update once I receive it.
 
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The person from whom I’ve learned the most about phonostages in the past year has been Michael Fidler of Classic Audio in the UK.

His Spartan and Pro phono preamps represent rational electrical engineering and boutique manufacturing quality. His critique of Ron Sutherland’s cascaded capacitor power supply filtering got me thinking more fundamentally about that design choice, as it *is* an unusual one.

Reading why he makes the choices he does in his designs has been a delight and an education for the geek in me.
 
AnthonyI said:
This is a little dated, but still accurate based on my experience with all of these. The number column is the order I got each one.

I can say with certainty these were the upgrade paths:

Main System: Pluto > Vincent Pho-8 > iPhono 2 > KC Vibe > Insight > Manley Chinook
Second System: Studio Phono > LX-LPS > Jolida JD9 >Insight

The Insight ended up being the "end game for system 2 when we picked up the Chinook, and around mid June 2022 we consolidated down to 1 system keeping the the Manley Chinook.

View attachment 194521

The 1-10 is my "how much better then" scale, of course this was based on my system and preferences. It's always a daunting, yet fun, road ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks for bringing the Chinook temptation back to the forefront of my mind.
 
Angsty said:
The person from whom I’ve learned the most about phonostages in the past year has been Michael Fidler of Classic Audio in the UK.

His Spartan and Pro phono preamps represent rational electrical engineering and boutique manufacturing quality. His critique of Ron Sutherland’s cascaded capacitor power supply filtering got me thinking more fundamentally about that design choice, as it *is* an unusual one.

Reading why he makes the choices he does in his designs has been a delight and an education for the geek in me.
Click to expand...
Looks like something I would be interested in. I will probably try it but not until I have enough time in on my current phono preamps. It looks good paper enough so that it is on The List.
Sounds like you are going to try it out.
Feedback please.
Thank you 🙏 for putting it on my radar.
 
Jbraswell said:
Anyone have pros vs cons of preamp with the phono stage integrated?
Seems like the way to go to save some coin and shelf space.
Just wasn't sure if I am missing some other aspect of this option.
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I tend to dislike integration, but there has to be decent/good/great phono preamps integrated into a preamp or integrated amplifier.
I believe the phono preamp into my Akitima preamp is decent from what I have seen but not sure it is a match for the separate ones I have.
If I were to drop $7k or $10k or more on an AVR I would hope it had a decent phono stage.
If you pick apart the integrated components and compare them to the better/best separates the disparity should be apparent.
If I had money to burn, I would just get a high-end AVR to use as a processor for amps and speakers.
That is where the HT AVRs make sense to me. Dealing with speaker arrays and also room correction. For example I like running four subwoofers.
 
Middle Earth said:
Looks like something I would be interested in. I will probably try it but not until I have enough time in on my current phono preamps. It looks good paper enough so that it is on The List.
Sounds like you are going to try it out.
Feedback please.
Thank you 🙏 for putting it on my radar.
Click to expand...
While I am intrigued in what Michael Fidler is offering, I’m at “end game” with my Bryston phonos. Had I known about the MC Pro before buying my second Bryston last year, I would have pulled the trigger.
 
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