Phono Cartridges - Your favorites and least favorites?

Just following up on the Grado Reference3.

It’s way more detailed than my custom Gold3. Things buried in complex mixes are clearly rendered. Things that the Gold3 can’t extract. It’s like having a whole new record collection.

I tested it with my Hi Fi News and Record Review test record. The compliance tests show it’s a perfect match for the G’s arm. It tracked all of the torture tests, and proved to be a far superior tracker than the Gold3. There’s one track (+18 dB nearest the label) that the Gold3 can’t track at all- it loses contact with the groove and skates over the track. The Reference3 tracked it, and pretty cleanly too. The record says if a cartridge can track the +15 dB tracks, it should be able to track any record. The +18 dB track separates the men from the boys.

I’ve learned that too much weight is given to stylus profiles. The Gold3 with its MicroRidge stylus should sound better and track better than the Reference3. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I’ve been unfair to Grado in previous posts regarding the value of the wood bodied cartridges. On paper, they appear to bring up the rear in comparison to the competition especially regarding stylus profiles. Where the rubber meets the road- playing records- the Reference3 kicks ass and takes names. I do wish they’d be a bit more transparent as to what one is actually buying.

It’s also seriously pissed me off. I could have been enjoying my records like this long ago. But I refused to step into 4 figure cartridges because they are “too expensive.” And I guess I still haven’t as I paid $525 for this with a couple hundred documented hours. But when this one’s worn out, I’ll gladly buy another…and another…and another. It’s worth every penny.

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HiFi Guy said:
Just following up on the Grado Reference3.

It’s way more detailed than my custom Gold3. Things buried in complex mixes are clearly rendered. Things that the Gold3 can’t extract. It’s like having a whole new record collection.

I tested it with my Hi Fi News and Record Review test record. The compliance tests show it’s a perfect match for the G’s arm. It tracked all of the torture tests, and proved to be a far superior tracker than the Gold3. There’s one track (+18 dB nearest the label) that the Gold3 can’t track at all- it loses contact with the groove and skates over the track. The Reference3 tracked it, and pretty cleanly too. The record says if a cartridge can track the +15 dB tracks, it should be able to track any record. The +18 dB track separates the men from the boys.

I’ve learned that too much weight is given to stylus profiles. The Gold3 with its MicroRidge stylus should sound better and track better than the Reference3. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I’ve been unfair to Grado in previous posts regarding the value of the wood bodied cartridges. On paper, they appear to bring up the rear in comparison to the competition especially regarding stylus profiles. Where the rubber meets the road- playing records- the Reference3 kicks ass and takes names. I do wish they’d be a bit more transparent as to what one is actually buying.

It’s also seriously pissed me off. I could have been enjoying my records like this long ago. But I refused to step into 4 figure cartridges because they are “too expensive.” And I guess I still haven’t as I paid $525 for this with a couple hundred documented hours. But when this one’s worn out, I’ll gladly buy another…and another…and another. It’s worth every penny.

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Analog can be a lifelong adventure and if you are diligent and lucky every step along the way can be filled with happy surprise. Welcome to your next waypoint @HiFi Guy. On to the next!
 
Headshell arrived yesterday and the Hana ML went on the Luxman last night. After a couple of hours, I can’t really say yet if I prefer the ML to the Nagaoka MP-300! 😲 Both sound fabulous on this table.

Stylus profile is not the only or best determiner of performance, as @HiFi Guy has noted. The synergy of the cart to the table and tonearm matters a lot. Alignment tweaking may help, too.😉

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I dialed in the azimuth with the Fozgometer today. There’s a steep learning curve. The Gold3 took an hour. I got the Reference3 dialed in 15 minutes.

I took before and after pictures. The goal is to have channel balance at 0 and equal readings from both channels.

Before



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Are you running straight from the cartridge to the Fozgometer? If so, what is the output level of the Grado?
 
Perfect. Should also have asked what is its rated separation? Also, in the picture in Post 901 from the side is the cartridge lowered onto the record or riding just above?
 
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HiFi Guy said:
Grado says average of 30 dB from 10 Hz to 30 kHz.

That’s what I don’t get. Both cartridges are dialed in perfectly but I’m not showing anywhere near what I expected with either one.
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That's why I asked as readings around 32 or 33 are what I always saw with the Benz LPS and Ruby Z. I had to run from the Sutherland Duo's outputs to the meter as the Benz stated output, .035mV, is right at the minimum the meter wants to see.
 
OMC said:
That's why I asked as readings around 32 or 33 are what I always saw with the Benz LPS and Ruby Z. I had to run from the Sutherland Duo's outputs to the meter as the Benz stated output, .035mV, is right at the minimum the meter wants to see.
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Just tried coming out if the Duos. Now reads 22.5 both channels. I don’t see that it’s measuring separation at all. It seems to be measuring for equal channel balance. The meter goes up with the Duos because it’s getting more voltage on the input. If I changed the gain from 52 to 58 dB it would go up again.
 
After a couple more days, I think the Hana ML will be staying put for a while. The Nagaoka is a great competitor to the Hana, but the Hana is still breaking in and getting a bit better by the week.

That said, I could also likely live long-term with a MP-500 stylus (my 300 stylus is near end of life) with no regrets. Besides, I’m tired now of tweaking cartridge alignments! 😂

It’s a great place to be when you’re no longer concerned how cartridge upgrades will make the system sound “better”. A pair of Hanas on my two tables seems to be the answer until retips are required.
 
So I am contemplating swapping out the Elys 2 cartridge on my Rega RP40 to an Audio Technica 540ml cartridge. On this particular setup, I use the phono preamp within a Yamaha RX-V1600 receiver. An average listening level is -32db on the receiver with the Elys II, and I turn it up to -10 db when I want to party. Haha.

The Elys 2 cartridge by Rega has a 6.8 - 7.2 mV output, very high. The AT540 ml has a 4.0 mV output. I understand that the AT540 will be quieter than the Elys 2, given the differences in the mV outputs, but is there a way to calculate how much quieter?

My concern is, if I go with the AT540 on that setup and I need to crank the Yamaha up to -20 db to get the same average listening level as the Elys 2, I won't have the "room" to play it much louder before I start hearing more noise from the amp.

I am not interested in a separate phono preamp for this setup. I could stick with another Rega cart, but the only upgrade for MM is the Exact II and that is not worth $675 USD (they raised the prices). Also limited by the fact the Rega doesn't have VTA adjustments and not looking to buy spacers. Think I can get buy with the 540ml given the carts low-ish profile, but concerned about volume issues.

Is it as simple as, 4.0/6.8 = 0.588, ~58.8%, so the volume output will be 41.2% lower on the AT540? So -19db will become the new "average" listening level instead of -32 db.
 
zdkaiser said:
So I am contemplating swapping out the Elys 2 cartridge on my Rega RP40 to an Audio Technica 540ml cartridge. On this particular setup, I use the phono preamp within a Yamaha RX-V1600 receiver. An average listening level is -32db on the receiver with the Elys II, and I turn it up to -10 db when I want to party. Haha.

The Elys 2 cartridge by Rega has a 6.8 - 7.2 mV output, very high. The AT540 ml has a 4.0 mV output. I understand that the AT540 will be quieter than the Elys 2, given the differences in the mV outputs, but is there a way to calculate how much quieter?
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kvetcha said:
iirc you want to check the input sensitivity on your amplifier and try to come in at or under that value to avoid clipping.

You can use this calculator to figure out the math using the output voltage of your cart and the sensitivity of your input to determine ideal gain.

Cartridge Database Tools - Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com www.vinylengine.com

e.g. my amp has a 550mV input sensitivity, so I would have a 5mV cart like the Gold2 at 40db gain to produce a ~500mV output.
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This
 
HiFi Guy said:
If it were me, I’d not buy the 540ML if you don’t want to use spacers. The 540EN is going to be a lot more forgiving if your VTA isn’t dialed in.
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Thanks. I've read a few other folks have had good luck with RP3, P3, etc with the 540ml without spacers. I suppose buying 2mm spacers isnt a deal breaker and would probably open up more possibilities with what I can put on the Rega. The tonearm has a slight downward slope with the Elys2 and the 540 is about 3 mm taller than the Rega cart
 
Swapped to the 540ml on my Rega RB303 tonearm. Put a record on. Constant humming sound. Figured it's some sort of grounding issue. The turntable is grounded in the TTPSU. Not sure what's going on really. Put the Rega Elys 2 cart back on the tonearm and the hum disappeared. Guess it's a no go on the AT540ml.
 
zdkaiser said:
Swapped to the 540ml on my Rega RB303 tonearm. Put a record on. Constant humming sound. Figured it's some sort of grounding issue. The turntable is grounded in the TTPSU. Not sure what's going on really. Put the Rega Elys 2 cart back on the tonearm and the hum disappeared. Guess it's a no go on the AT540ml.
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Could be cable routing, especially if not shielded. Check phono cables and phono stage cables.
I had a hum and moving the power cable to the phono stage fixed it.
 
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