Cables - one of the most taboo subjects in audio

Ghost said:
I settled on the following for now:

Amp is far left on my console, TT is middle, phono is far right. I'm not getting the "thwack-thwack-thwack" cyclical sound from the amplifier coming through the speakers which is a step in the right direction. Still getting a hissing noise and from my experimenting I suspect the hiss is coming directly from the quality of my interconnects. The hiss becomes a rogue radio station with lesser cables and the hiss disappeared altogether with a slightly better set of interconnects but then replaced the hiss with a buzz. So I'm going to call this set-up fine for now as the hiss is only distracting at loud volumes and get some BJCs for the run from my phono to the amp, I'm getting the feeling that that may cure the hiss or at least reduce it drastically. I also reorganized all my cables to make sure power cords weren't crossing left and right over each other and unplugged everything/replugged it in. I want to say somehow my system is louder now? Like, my listening level on the amp was at like 55 - 65/100 on my amp, now its at 45 - 55? So thats cool.

Anyways, the saga continues. Now I have to get to the bottom of that pesky IGD I've been noticing on the last 1-2 songs of each album that my new amp has apparently revealed. I should’ve never moved on from my little Urban Outfitters LP-60 and Beats Pill sound system. I’d probably live longer.

Click to expand...

If you are getting radio signals through the cables, switch to a foil/braid shielded cable versus a double-braid cable. Belden 1694A will do this job instead of LC-1. It will have a bit more capacitance than LC-1 but can more effectively block RFI. BJC can fab up a stereo pair with red and white boots, just like LC-1.

However, if you were not getting radio signals with your prior amp, the problem could be with the new amp not having effective RFI rejection. New cables could help but may not solve.


 
Hi from a new member!

Cables question here. I am about to assemble a much better vinyl setup than I've ever had. For years I've been using a Fluance RT83, with an Ortofon 2M Red, connected to the phono input of my Marantz SR7013, via an everyday RCA turntable cable with ground. Works fine, but after a lot of research here and elsewhere, I'm going to a Thorens TD 160 Super Reproduction with an Ortofon 2M Bronze from Vinyl Nirvana, into a Darlington Labs MP7B phono amp, then into a line-level input on the Marantz. I definitely don't want to use everyday cables. I'm leaning towards Blue Jeans LC1 from the TT to the Darlington. But, I've heard that the TT to phono amp cable run should be on the short side....and if length is needed, it should be found in the run from the phono amp to the receiver. All correct? So, would a 3 or 4 foot Blue Jeans be OK? Or should I try to do a set up with an even shorter cable between the TT and the phono amp? Like 1 or 2 feet? Next, would I also do well having the same quality cable (without the ground) going from the phono amp to the receiver? Or would that not be as critical? Thanks for your help - I know these are basic questions, but you got to start somewhere!
 
Last edited:
Angsty said:
If you are getting radio signals through the cables, switch to a foil/braid shielded cable versus a double-braid cable. Belden 1694A will do this job instead of LC-1. It will have a bit more capacitance than LC-1 but can more effectively block RFI. BJC can fab up a stereo pair with red and white boots, just like LC-1.

However, if you were not getting radio signals with your prior amp, the problem could be with the new amp not having effective RFI rejection. New cables could help but may not solve.


Click to expand...
I should add that 1694A is stiffer than LC-1. I use one as digital coax cable and it is a bit harder to route. It’s better for RFI, but there is a trade-off, but not a terrible one.
 
HD_Dude said:
Hi from a new member!

Cables question here. I am about to assemble a much better vinyl setup than I've ever had. For years I've been using a Fluance RT83, with an Ortofon 2M Red, connected to the phono input of my Marantz SR7013, via an everyday RCA turntable cable with ground. Works fine, but after a lot of research here and elsewhere, I'm going to a Thorens TD 160 Super Reproduction with an Ortofon 2M Bronze from Vinyl Nirvana, into a Darlington Labs MP7B phono amp, then into a line-level input on the Marantz. I definitely don't want to use everyday cables. I'm leaning towards Blue Jeans LC1 from the TT to the Darlington. But, I've heard that the TT to amp cable run should be on the short side....and if length is needed, it should be found in the run from the phono amp to the receiver. All correct? So, would a 3 or 4 foot Blue Jeans be OK? Or should I try to do a set up with an even shorter cable between the TT and the phono amp? Like 1 or 2 feet? Next, would I also do well having the same quality cable (without the ground) going from the phono amp to the receiver? Or would that not be as critical? Thanks for your help - I know these are basic questions, but you got to start somewhere!
Click to expand...
LC-1 is a very low capacitance cable, so 3 or 4 feet should not be a problem. The 2M Bronze recommended capacitance is 150-300 pF; a four foot run of LC-1 adds less than 50 pF. If the capacitance of the Darlington is about 100 pF, then you are good. Check the Darlington specs.

I use LC-1 for all of my RCA analog runs; it’s a well engineered cable.

Edit: I see the Darlington has variable capacitance, so a 4 ft run is fine and you can even dial up capacitance a bit if you need to boost the high frequencies.
 
Last edited:
Angsty said:
LC-1 is a very low capacitance cable, so 3 or 4 feet should not be a problem. The 2M Bronze recommended capacitance is 150-300 pF; a four foot run of LC-1 adds less than 50 pF. If the capacitance of the Darlington is about 100 pF, then you are good. Check the Darlington specs.

I use LC-1 for all of my RCA analog runs; it’s a well engineered cable.
Click to expand...
Thank you! That helps a lot. The Darlington has variable capacitance - MM: 0pF, 50pF, 100pF, 150pF, 200pF, 250pF, 300pF, 350pF. And they'll set it to whatever I want when it ships. So I could ask them to set it to 100pF, and looks like I'd be good. Thanks again for the excellent answer!
 
Angsty said:
If you are getting radio signals through the cables, switch to a foil/braid shielded cable versus a double-braid cable. Belden 1694A will do this job instead of LC-1. It will have a bit more capacitance than LC-1 but can more effectively block RFI. BJC can fab up a stereo pair with red and white boots, just like LC-1.

However, if you were not getting radio signals with your prior amp, the problem could be with the new amp not having effective RFI rejection. New cables could help but may not solve.


Click to expand...
The Radio signals only came through when I put on the cheapest pair of random RCAs I had laying around the house. I swapped those out and don't have any radio signals coming through with my current interconnects, including a pair of LC-1s, just a bit of a hiss at high volumes. Think the Belden would still be worth trying as a way to get rid of the hiss? Otherwise I was just going to grab a 3 foot LC-1 to link my phono to the amp
 
Ghost said:
The Radio signals only came through when I put on the cheapest pair of random RCAs I had laying around the house. I swapped those out and don't have any radio signals coming through with my current interconnects, including a pair of LC-1s, just a bit of a hiss at high volumes. Think the Belden would still be worth trying as a way to get rid of the hiss? Otherwise I was just going to grab a 3 foot LC-1 to link my phono to the amp
Click to expand...
Do you have the hiss when nothing is playing? That’s the problem I have. There’s a hiss that doesn’t go up or down in volume when I raise my volume. I’ve seemingly tried everything so I’m chalking it up to bad wiring in my house…
 
MikeH said:
Do you have the hiss when nothing is playing? That’s the problem I have. There’s a hiss that doesn’t go up or down in volume when I raise my volume. I’ve seemingly tried everything so I’m chalking it up to bad wiring in my house…
Click to expand...
It’s present when nothing is playing but definitely gets louder or quieter depending on the volume.

Sounds like you just have a rare ancestor snake spirit that lives in your speakers
 
Potentially silly question:

For hooking up your speakers: is your “right speaker” the one on the right when you’re looking at it from the couch or is it the one the right from when you’re staring towards the couch? Does it matter?
 
Ghost said:
Potentially silly question:

For hooking up your speakers: is your “right speaker” the one on the right when you’re looking at it from the couch or is it the one the right from when you’re staring towards the couch? Does it matter?
Click to expand...

It’s the one on your right as you listening to music. Largely depends on the mixing and mastering as to how much of a difference it makes but unless it’s mono there will be a difference.
 
Ghost said:
The Radio signals only came through when I put on the cheapest pair of random RCAs I had laying around the house. I swapped those out and don't have any radio signals coming through with my current interconnects, including a pair of LC-1s, just a bit of a hiss at high volumes. Think the Belden would still be worth trying as a way to get rid of the hiss? Otherwise I was just going to grab a 3 foot LC-1 to link my phono to the amp
Click to expand...
If you are buying new, get the Belden 1694A. It won’t perform audibly worse than the LC-1 and will eliminate the concern about RFI penetration through the shield. Just remember that the Belden will be a stiffer cable. If you already have the LC-1, just go with that. The Belden is better at HF (radio) blocking and the LC-1 is better at LF (inductive hum) blocking.

Hiss can sometimes be due to component gain mis-matching. Try dropping the gain in your phono a step and using the integrated to provide more of the volume.
 
Last edited:
Ghost said:
Also welcome to the new guy @HD_Dude . Always a joy seeing new people discover the best place on the internet
Click to expand...
Thanks Ghost! I'm learning so much here! I've always used turntables...plug 'em into the receiver, put on a record....but here, I'm learning how to make the sound the best it can be! And that's awesome. Thanks again!
 
Angsty said:
If you are buying new, get the Belden 1694A. It won’t perform audibly worse than the LC-1 and will eliminate the concern about RFI penetration through the shield. Just remember that the Belden will be a stiffer cable. If you already have the LC-1, just go with that. The Belden is better at HF (radio) blocking and the LC-1 is better at LF (inductive hum) blocking.

Hiss can sometimes be due to component gain mis-matching. Try dropping the gain in your phono a step and using the integrated to provide more of the volume.
Click to expand...
@Ghost - The discussion on the phono cartridge thread got me thinking about your RF problem. If you were getting radio station leakage or hiss into your phonostage, try dropping the loading to 100 ohms and see if that eliminates it. If so, you can try 200 ohms and 1000 ohms to see if you like the sound of the cart better without the noise returning. Just thinking about MC RF resonance at high loading levels.
 
Angsty said:
@Ghost - The discussion on the phono cartridge thread got me thinking about your RF problem. If you were getting radio station leakage or hiss into your phonostage, try dropping the loading to 100 ohms and see if that eliminates it. If so, you can try 200 ohms and 1000 ohms to see if you like the sound of the cart better without the noise returning. Just thinking about MC RF resonance at high loading levels.
Click to expand...
I’ll let you know!
 
Jbraswell said:
Anyone tried these out yet?

Shop

www.knukonceptz.com www.knukonceptz.com

Edit: it appears these are made in china.
Click to expand...
Looks attractive, but it’s likely a high capacitance, high noise design. Individual wire insulation provides more capacitive dielectric material. There is no shielding for RFI and EMI; twisted pair doesn’t help with noise rejection in unbalanced cables.
 
Ghost said:
I move it closer and it gets louder and you can then hear a cyclical thwack thwack thwack through the speakers
Click to expand...
Obviously, I’m fascinated with the issues you have encountered recently. It seems the “thwack” you were hearing earlier has a name: “motorboating”. There is even a Wikipedia entry on it (but there is not one for IGD - go figure).

Motorboating (electronics) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
Angsty said:
Obviously, I’m fascinated with the issues you have encountered recently. It seems the “thwack” you were hearing earlier has a name: “motorboating”. There is even a Wikipedia entry on it (but there is not one for IGD - go figure).

Motorboating (electronics) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Whoa fascinating, this seems spot on! Seems the issue comes back to RF? Seems first step should be to upgrade my interconnects between all of my turntable components im guessing. If that doesn’t work might be worth tackling the amps power cord and finding a way to give it an isolated power supply by my take.
 
Angsty said:
If you are buying new, get the Belden 1694A. It won’t perform audibly worse than the LC-1 and will eliminate the concern about RFI penetration through the shield. Just remember that the Belden will be a stiffer cable. If you already have the LC-1, just go with that. The Belden is better at HF (radio) blocking and the LC-1 is better at LF (inductive hum) blocking.

Hiss can sometimes be due to component gain mis-matching. Try dropping the gain in your phono a step and using the integrated to provide more of the volume.
Click to expand...
Are these the ones you’re referring to? Belden 1694A Cables at Blue Jeans Cable

Or is there somewhere else recommended to buy them from?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top