Black Lives Matter

[MikeH]

I agree that companies should be respectful and stop pushing ads and stuff that seem tone deaf in this time, at least for this week. I hope they do it more than one day. Not sure what that really accomplishes other than not making them look like they don't care, though.

As for the second part, I guess I'm not the target demo, because I feel like that happened on the social media I participate in a few days ago. But if that isn't true for everyone and today helps someone living under a relative rock see more and be motivated to help, then that is great.

I still see how black artists are frustrated that it is coming from an industry that has very frequently preyed off of black artists instead of having their best interests at heart, though. I hope people see some of that message too.

As to the 2nd part, I agree with ya. I had already seen a lot of videos and content about the protests and movement on my feed. But not everybody follows the same types of accounts. Other than that, it's mostly a shallow gesture it seems (not that it is bad that people are posting it using the appropriate hash tags)...which is why at least VMP donating $25k is more than just virtue signaling. But it does draw more attention to the cause and the hope is that people will actually use this to change, instead of just issuing some statement. As I mentioned earlier--actions speak louder than words. Companies should hire more POC in positions of power, give better royalties to artists, have better representation across the board in all roles, etc. It's not enough for companies to just post a black square and move on.

 

[nolalady]

What does this actually look like though? Genuinely curious...what do you replace it with? The militarization of police absolutely needs to be dissolved. But what goes in the place of police? Are there any examples of nations that have no police force whatsoever (if that is even what you are referring to?) EDIT: I think your above post recommending reading material may be the best bet at answering this question. Really appreciate you sharing those resources.

I've seen some interesting half measures proposed to try to move things in the right direction. Justin Amash is drafting a bill to allow people to sue individual police officers. Some people suggested that police officers will need to purchase insurance--someone on your police force fucks up, rates rise for everybody...I'd love to see cops get their guns taken away, but it wouldn't prevent tragedies like George Lloyd or Eric Garner. And when we do have shooting after shooting after shooting but people are more concerned about their right to bear arms than these lives lost, I don't know how proper gun legislation get passed. Outside of protesting and voting, what else can be done?

Speaking from personal experience, all the racist white kids in my suburban hometown ended up becoming cops. Most people do not tend to become cops to help their community--they do so for the power and lack of accountability. Yes, there are some good cops out there, but even they are constrained by the bad cops most of the time.

When I worked for the juvenile justice program in grad school, 80% of all children in a juvenile facility were black. In Louisiana, black people make up about 30% of the population. When we gave these children psychological exams, the white children (which only made up 20%) were SEVEN times more likely to score at significant on a trauma and mental instability than their black counterparts. We did extensive testing of our survey instruments to make sure they weren't biased towards white children and against black children. We found that these instruments were not biased, which leads to just one conclusion. White kids only get put in juvenile facilities when there are significant mental issues. Black kids get put into juvenile facilities because their families don't have the money to pay for justice. The juvenile facility make up here in LA is based largely on a racist system where justice is available for anyone that can pay for it. And the laws that these kids are popped on, like say, drug laws, are also largely set up to keep black and brown people in prisons.

I really think that we need to start with a review of our laws, specifically those that are applied unequally. Then we have to look first at the juvenile system, starting with judges that put black and brown children in prisons for offenses that they don't put white children in prison for. This is how children fall into the trap of the for profit prison system--which also should be abolished. The problem isn't the just police, they just happen to be the enforcement branch of this whole messed up, racist system.

 

[GritNGlitter]

I mean...I got mugged for my iPod when I was in college but a policeman was nearby and caught the guy who did it. Other people were around and nobody helped out. My mom was held up at knifepoint at Grand Central Station when she was pregnant with me and a policeman was able to safely diffuse the situation. I understand that police have been given way too much power and suffer no consequences most of the time for their dangerous actions. And my experiences in no way represent the majority of what the police do and the abhorrent things a lot of them do. But that's why I asking what it should be replaced with as I am pretty unaware/uneducated in the entire subject. I'm looking forward to reading what @GritNGlitter recommended though! Downloaded The End of Policing and will start reading it tonight.

I'm not going to lie, when I was held up at knifepoint many years ago, I was pretty fucking grateful that the Police turned up.

I used to have a lot of police friends, and I know I was happy when they showed up after some dude broke a chair over my buddy's head. But then I don't know much about you, @MikeH, but I'm white, so that's the system also working in my favor. The anecdotes of some police doing what we prefer just aren't enough to validate a system built on oppression and suppression.

Because I also remember when a friend joined the SJPD because he sincerely wanted to give back to his community. One night he confessed to me that he wasn't racist enough to do the job as it's designed. He didn't suspect every Latino or black dude was up to something or carrying drugs. I was 25 and too stunned to do what I wish I had--implore him to quit. Up until that point I'd had some friends racially profiled, and I believed the "a few bad apples" idea. I still only understood racism as a personal feeling rather than a system of power. It didn't change my view of police and policing overnight, but it definitely opened my eyes and enabled me to more fully open my mind as I delved further into history, racism, policing, and social justice study.

 

[jaycee]

Ask yourself why do we need the police?
I think there are potential answers to your question when you examine the why? what? and who? of policing

I mean...I got mugged for my iPod when I was in college but a policeman was nearby and caught the guy who did it. Other people were around and nobody helped out. My mom was held up at knifepoint at Grand Central Station when she was pregnant with me and a policeman was able to safely diffuse the situation. I understand that police have been given way too much power and suffer no consequences most of the time for their dangerous actions. And my experiences in no way represent the majority of what the police do and the abhorrent things a lot of them do. But that's why I asking what it should be replaced with as I am pretty unaware/uneducated in the entire subject. I'm looking forward to reading what @GritNGlitter recommended though! Downloaded The End of Policing and will start reading it tonight.

I'm not going to lie, when I was held up at knifepoint many years ago, I was pretty fucking grateful that the Police turned up.

Just to be clear. I wasn't suggesting in my post whether the police are necessary or not.

The point was and is to consider why the police are needed? and to be clear why that need manifests itself / how the need is enforced and perpetuated? sorry i didn't make that clearer by posing the question.

I've been mugged multiple times. 48th and Baltimore in Philly. Broken Kneecap. In Pittsburgh growing up, got jumped. Concussion. Some meth-heads in Portland stealing shit from the Goodwill truck outside of my apt. in the middle of the night. Broken wrist. Last year a drunk guy almost ran over me in an intersection and when I cussed him out he got out and started a physical altercation with me.

Does that c.v. of crimes being committed against me (4 assaults in this case) explain the need for the police? or is it a manifestation of the system that the police are there to enforce and promote?

I don't know a definitive answer but the point of my original post was to consider "need" not what the police are there for?

and not that it's relevant to the question but the police have never intervened and helped me or my people in any way. in 2 of those 4 incidents when they became involved they did nothing

 

[MikeH]

I used to have a lot of police friends, and I know I was happy when they showed up after some dude broke a chair over my buddy's head. But then I don't know much about you, @MikeH, but I'm white, so that's the system also working in my favor. The anecdotes of some police doing what we prefer just aren't enough to validate a system built on oppression and suppression.

Because I also remember when a friend joined the SJPD because he sincerely wanted to give back to his community. One night he confessed to me that he wasn't racist enough to do the job as it's designed. He didn't suspect every Latino or black dude was up to something or carrying drugs. I was 25 and too stunned to do what I wish I had--implore him to quit. Up until that point I'd had some friends racially profiled, and I believed the "a few bad apples" idea. I still only understood racism as a personal feeling rather than a system of power. It didn't change my view of police and policing overnight, but it definitely opened my eyes and enabled me to more fully open my mind as I delved further into history, racism, policing, and social justice study.

Thanks for this. I, too, am white and cannot attempt to know how POC feel around police or understand what friends go through. I know the system is broken and needs a radical overhaul. And I fully agree with @nolalady --everything from laws being changed that target POC and for profit prisons being dismantled needs to be done. The prison industrial complex is beyond fucked up. I guess my main question was what replaces a police force if the idea is to get rid of police. That's why I am glad you posted those books and resources to check out to help me answer that question.

 

[jaycee]

It's useful to struggle with the question of what replaces the police. I need to consider this more myself. It's hard to imagine anything replacing the police that is representative of the nation's institutions be anything but unjust and inequitable... but I think the NAACPs request are a starting point... at minimum they begin to set some ground rules for the police to be accountable to the communities they operate within, but the police are just one layer of an oppressive, corrupt, etc. etc. judicial system.

We can't escape that the police (in America I don't want to speak for anywhere else) are a cultural manifestation and if that same culture is manifesting another police institution I'm more than skeptical of any potential societal benefits.

 

[MikeH]

Just to be clear. I wasn't suggesting in my post whether the police are necessary or not.

The point was and is to consider why the police are needed? and to be clear why that need manifests itself / how the need is enforced and perpetuated? sorry i didn't make that clearer by posing the question.

I've been mugged multiple times. 48th and Baltimore in Philly. Broken Kneecap. In Pittsburgh growing up, got jumped. Concussion. Some meth-heads in Portland stealing shit from the Goodwill truck outside of my apt. in the middle of the night. Broken wrist. Last year a drunk guy almost ran over me in an intersection and when I cussed him out he got out and started a physical altercation with me.

Does that c.v. of crimes being committed against me (4 assaults in this case) explain the need for the police? or is it a manifestation of the system that the police are there to enforce and promote?

I don't know a definitive answer but the point of my original post was to consider "need" not what the police are there for?

and not that it's relevant to the question but the police have never intervened and helped me or my people in any way. in 2 of those 4 incidents when they became involved they did nothing

Gotcha. Yea--that's what I was initially confused about a bit. I am extremely lucky in that I have had only two incidents like that happen to me or immediate family and cops helped in each case. I know that is FAR from the norm.

My hometown has a maximum security prison in it and growing up I saw way too many people targeted and arrested for crimes simply for the color of their skin. The majority of the cops in my hometown were white while the town itself was pretty diverse and even as a kid I could see how fucked up they often treated POC. Even small things like possession carried bigger sentences if you were not white. Meanwhile, the head of the D.A.R.E. program in my school district was implicated in a cocaine distribution ring and weaseled his way out of any sort of consequence (I think he's still a detective today).

I think getting rid of minor drug offenses, ending for-profit prisons, passing gun control laws and siphoning money away from police departments and toward education and other important is not a bad way to start but there's a TON more work to be done after that. This probably doesn't need to be said in this thread but everyone needs to make sure to VOTE. In every election, no matter how small. I lived in Queens and was able to vote for AOC despite nobody thinking she could win and was extremely proud to call her my congresswoman for a few years.

 

[Dtknuckles]

I think we need to remember to center black voices. I need to remember that too.

Layla F Saad is a black woman that is doing so much work to educate. White people, we need to do the work. Please. I urge you to look into ordering a copy of Me and White Supremacy and to do her 30 day exercise. I did it last year and learned so much about the racism and prejudices I hold inside because of our society. And how I must continually work to undo it and to learn.

LAYLA F. SAAD

I am soon going to do the exercise again. If anyone is interested in going through the exercise together, please let me know. It is really tough work that made me very emotional several times. I found it helpful to have someone doing it at the same time. We could then bounce our ideas and thoughts and questions off of each other without asking our black friends to undertake even more emotional labor. If you do not want to do the exercise with me, I'm totally cool with that, it isn't about me. It is about doing the work - just do find someone to go through it with.

If black people are telling us, time and time and time and time again that the justice system is prejudicial and is racist, we must believe them. Sure, there are good cops. But I equate saying that with saying, "All lives matter". It is not the time. We are at this point because the bad cops have more weight than the good cops. I'm not asking anyone to turn on their family and friends because they are cops. I am asking everyone to think, to have the uncomfortable discussions, to do the work, to listen. And if you don't agree with the movement, maybe just don't say anything?

I might be interested

 

[Teeeee]

I've got @Indymisanthrope , @sjaygray , @GritNGlitter and maybe @Dtknuckles so far. No pressure.

I love it.

We can do the work separately, hold each other accountable to stay on the appropriate day and discuss stuff in DMs. It can get intense so working it out privately might be more conducive. We can engage with each other as much or as little as we want. I do know that when I did this with a friend, we checked in once a week. And if we were feeling a mental block on a particular day, we'd reach out to each other.

Me And White Supremacy

www.meandwhitesupremacybook.com

 

[Dirtbag Auntie]

Hello,

Here's a couple of resources to start with:

First, is an anti-racist reading list by the author Ibram X. Kendi for The Atlantic in February 2019. Books are grouped as a two semester syllabus.

Here's a comprehensive list of anti-racism resources for white and non-black musicians (A lot of this also applies to non-musicians) at She Shreds

Reading and Journaling along with Me & White Supremacy by Layla F. Saad as mentioned by Teeeee earlier.

There are so many resources out there. Please do your research. Respect the space and the work and resources that these authors and activists have shared so many times.

I will be working through these as well as well as some other resource guides.

 

[Dirtbag Auntie]

I've got @Indymisanthrope , @sjaygray , @GritNGlitter and maybe @Dtknuckles so far. No pressure.

I love it.

We can do the work separately, hold each other accountable to stay on the appropriate day and discuss stuff in DMs. It can get intense so working it out privately might be more conducive. We can engage with each other as much or as little as we want. I do know that when I did this with a friend, we checked in once a week. And if we were feeling a mental block on a particular day, we'd reach out to each other.

Me And White Supremacy

www.meandwhitesupremacybook.com

Add me to the list. I'll pause where I am at until y'all catch up or the first dm session.

 

[Tyr]

I've got @Indymisanthrope , @sjaygray , @GritNGlitter and maybe @Dtknuckles so far. No pressure.

I love it.

We can do the work separately, hold each other accountable to stay on the appropriate day and discuss stuff in DMs. It can get intense so working it out privately might be more conducive. We can engage with each other as much or as little as we want. I do know that when I did this with a friend, we checked in once a week. And if we were feeling a mental block on a particular day, we'd reach out to each other.

Me And White Supremacy

www.meandwhitesupremacybook.com

Can you please add me to this list as well? I'm ordering the book today.

This is a wonderful idea T. BIG HUGS to you and everyone.

 

[juiceless]

I've got @Indymisanthrope , @sjaygray , @GritNGlitter and maybe @Dtknuckles so far. No pressure.

I love it.

We can do the work separately, hold each other accountable to stay on the appropriate day and discuss stuff in DMs. It can get intense so working it out privately might be more conducive. We can engage with each other as much or as little as we want. I do know that when I did this with a friend, we checked in once a week. And if we were feeling a mental block on a particular day, we'd reach out to each other.

Me And White Supremacy

www.meandwhitesupremacybook.com

Yo I’m in

 

[Dead C]

I like it. I thought the point was that white people would promote black voices, not that everyone would make stupid black avatars.

It started as a blackout in the music industry, although, as some people I know have said, maybe they should have just been posting black artists. I've seen people state they were leaving social media for the whole week, "in solidarity." The problem is that, too often, everyone just jumps in on something without really knowing the clear message or purpose.

Somehow, some people have been convinced that it is actually a woke move to go silent and avoid stressful information about police brutality and racial oppression under the guise of allyship?

The gesture is nice enough. Of course, everyone hashtagged it and flooded the platform, so it was counterproductive. I also understand the idea of refraining from posting yoga poses and garden salads for the day, so as to devote social media to the issues and information and let them have that space to be circulated without being buried. Unfortunately, all that happened was my instagram feed became nothing but black boxes.

This past week has been hard. Today feels the hardest. I’d consider myself especially leery of slacktivism; I know many people’s efforts start and end with their social media. I live in Portland; I’m very familiar with the idea that some people are more interested in looking virtuous than acting with virtue.

That said, it makes me really sad to see people turn on one another over the instagram blackout. Of all the days since last Monday, this has been the one where I’m most convinced nothing will change. If we focus on the people trying to do something and simply tell them they’re wrong…that just seems like what the cops want right now: infighting.

I’m half black. I pass as white. I don’t get hassled by cops or followed by shopkeepers, though I’ve seen both happen to my own dad, firsthand. I grew up in the white suburbs of Arizona, and had no connection to the black side of my family. People tell me I’m too white in my demeanor to possibly be “of color.” I have a really difficult relationship my with identity, and feel constantly pulled between polarities; some people would tell me I have no right to identify as a person of color, while others would say I’m shirking my responsibilities as a person of color by not speaking up more.

I'm talking about awareness and that includes being aware of if what you're doing is actually counterproductive

 

[Teeeee]

Can you please add me to this list as well? I'm ordering the book today.

This is a wonderful idea T. BIG HUGS to you and everyone.

Yo I’m in

I was just reading the news and getting scared. I came in here before shutting down for the day and saw this. This gave me so much hope. And brought tears to my eyes. Not just you two, but that all of you in here are doing the work.

So many people are good. Thank you for continually reminding me.

 

[Ethos99]

I was just reading the news and getting scared. I came in here before shutting down for the day and saw this. This gave me so much hope. And brought tears to my eyes. Not just you two, but that all of you in here are doing the work.

So many people are good. Thank you for continually reminding me.

Just went to order and it's sold out. Any other source?

 

[Dead C]

I appreciate everyone that's in here.

This forum looked dead today and I realized what people were ... kind of... doing.. I've been nothing but entrenched in this, so to me, it didn't make any sense to go cold on social media. All I post is ABOUT THIS, specifically. But, the fact that the forum is so dead also feeds into my concerns about the black out. People want to do the right thIing and don't want to be viewed as social justice scabs. Obviously, other people recognized this wasn't a day for the discussion to stop and decided to show up in this thread, instead.

As a brown man that feels solidarity in seeing everyone finally addressing these issues that fall on deaf ears so often, a lot of these black boxes feel more like silence than a statement.

I just keep having white people ask me what they can do. I don't know what to tell them. Communicate with people. Listen to people. Share information, be open to it and seek it out.

The sad reality is that most people aren't angry about what happened to George Floyd, simply because it happened. It happens every day. They are angry because they saw irrefutable evidence of it. They hate overt racism, but don't seem as troubled by systemic racism that hurts people every day. I've told them this was happening forever and it's usually all crickets. So, keep making sure that this info spreads. Today isn't the day to feel like your voice doesn't matter, because you might be white. Use your voice and platform to amplify the voices and information that need it. This isn't about optics. Racism didn't just resurface because every took off their safety pins.

Last month, I was imploring people to watch 13th. I think one friend did. Maybe, two. Overall, not many.

I jumped in a little late here, so if this has already been mentioned... I guess I'm mentioning it again.

You can watch it on NETFLIX, but here should be the entire film. I honestly believe that everybody should have to watch this film. Anyone serious about wanting to help and gain more information about racial struggles and the system that we live in that hasn't seen this, should watch it now.

 

[Dtknuckles]

Just went to order and it's sold out. Any other source?

I think there are audio book versions

 

[Ethos99]

I think there are audio book versions

Then that's what I have to do. Thanks!

 

[Ethos99]

I was just reading the news and getting scared. I came in here before shutting down for the day and saw this. This gave me so much hope. And brought tears to my eyes. Not just you two, but that all of you in here are doing the work.

So many people are good. Thank you for continually reminding me.

Ok, got the audible version. Sign me up!