Needles & Grooves

@Dead C, I guess for me what I have seen on here regarding the desire for thread consolidation seems to have to do with not giving VMP any more shine than necessary. it seems to be coming from bitterness rather than the flow of conversation. if you're for more conversational flow well count yourself as the first person I have seen have this opinion regarding thread consolidation.

@Sanders Tillman used the exact same phrasing. That phrasing keeps being used repeatedly and it's not relevant to the subject AT ALL. It's used to deflect and it divides people into two groups. Those against VMP and those for it. Some people just want N&G to have its own identity & not have it turned into VMP JR.

@Tillman I just see the logic as flawed. It's true that I don't want to give a company shine that basically instructed us to go build a new shrine to them, but mostly, I want people to feel comfortable entering into the hip hop thread, rather than only discussing it in the VMP hip hop thread, because they are afraid to integrate.

@Dead C Who said I don't want N&G to have it's own identity? There are hundreds of threads on here. I truly don't see having 5 of them being about VMP as a problem. No division here. But I agree with @Tillman. Many arguments (not all) in support of consolidation appear to be made out of bitterness against VMP.

@Tillman I'm definitely not accusing you of this, because I think you're different, but there were certain people who came here commenting, "I hope this place isn't negative." And continued to push that constantly. So, when it's divided into this idea that the VMP threads are a refuge away from all of the anti-VMP people, it gets fucking old. The negativity is in that mindset.

I don't know. I kinda like discussing the Anthology with people without multiple pages being about VMP's other flaws.

@Dead C, I honestly don't think I am deflecting or dividing anything. I just have a preference for multiple threads. I'm not even a subscriber so I don't even need to follow the threads. but I occasionally want to see what's going on with the various subs and separate thread makes it easier to see what's going on with each.

@Sanders the only argument that I see against consolidation is that it will get messy and unfocused. That's the only reason I posted what I noticed in this status, because it contradicts that. Oh. And @Bohnjaggs reasoning that he only wants to discuss essentials & not R&HH or Classics, even though a good percentage of Essentials releases could be in one of the other 2 threads.

@Dead C Well, I still stand by my argument. I'm just going to agree to disagree here, and let democracy decide. I feel like I'm running in circles trying to explain my view at this point.

@mdmost You might not have seen this, but I completely agree with you. I believe that anthology should have it's own thread, because it's its own club. I also believe that, if the other were consolidated, there would always be albums to discuss and, with less dead space, the complaints would go down, because they'd be refocused on another subject

Nothing against you, @Dead C but I guess I'm just getting a little tired of the vocal minority still trying to push for one thread when the 5 thread vote won by a wide margin.

@Tillman I should add that, if you guys keep multiple threads, it doesn't bother me either way. The reasoning still doesn't make sense, but it will work itself out. All that bothers me are particular narratives that I keep seeing resurrected & utilized. Nobody should feel like they have to hide out there, or that others should. Some members don't even want their albums to integrate.

@Dead C, I hear you and I know you're one if the good ones too, but there are people here that promote the idea of not promoting VMP. if those people are making VMP subscribers uncomfortable here than aren't they more to blame for dividing the forum than those wanting multiple threads?

@Bohnjaggs I'm tired of hearing how everyone hates VMP & these precious threads are being torn away from them. Also, since most of the people that visit the VInyl CLubs section go to the VMP threads & that's where the poll was placed... I'm only vocal, because I kept hearing the same shit. I'm not pushing against either acton, just what I see as false narratives.

@Dead C, you keep mentioning how people are made to feel unwelcome here but I just don't understand what multiple VMP threads has anything to do with that.

@Tillman definitely. I just believe that the opposite is happening. If anyone goes to the pre-orders thread, you can see how this poll came about. It came from me & Woob Woob defending the right for people to post about VMP in there. That's Woob Woob. Someone who posted on his status that he didn't feel comfortable int he VInyl Clubs thread, because it was all VMP

@Tillmann It shouldn't have anything to do with that. I'm just relaying what I've heard & been told multiple times. I'm sure we hear different things, but I got a lot of, "This is our only place to discuss VMP." "Everyone else hates VMP here & is so negative." So, that's the idea that I'm pushing back against. For some folks, multiple threads is a bigger cage. Run free through the forum.

@Dead C, man I honestly am not catching the points you're trying to make. I quit VMP because they did me wrong as well as others. I think they're a shell of their former glory. that said I still think that VMP discussion 100% belong here and if they do why limit it to one or two threads? (continued...)

like I said, if you feel consolidation will promote more VMP discussion then count yourself as 1 of 1 to give this reason for consolidation.

@Tillman as long as that's clear, I don't care much about what happens. I just don't want people to feel either locked in there, or for others to be blamed as the reason for it. I think we have more nuance than that &, if some of those people let go of what they're used to, they'd find a welcoming community. I feel this is a positive forum. I hated us being called toxic before & I hate it now