Vinyl Me Please Classics

Wynton is a great educator in many respects. Incredibly knowledgeable. But his tastes are very restrictive. It’s his role as a gatekeeper that bugs me.

I often times find myself amazed at his prowess in the classical and blues realm along with his trad jazz realm. But yeah, he’s wrong about fusion by and large.
 
David A. said:
Wynton is a great educator in many respects. Incredibly knowledgeable. But his tastes are very restrictive. It’s his role as a gatekeeper that bugs me.

I often times find myself amazed at his prowess in the classical and blues realm along with his trad jazz realm. But yeah, he’s wrong about fusion by and large.
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And to say he's doing nothing to turn future generations on to jazz is mistaken, too. My kids (ages 4 and 2) love watching the Jazz at Lincoln Center Sesame Street special on PBS. That specical is one of the reasons they think Dad's interest in jazz is pretty cool. Otherwise they're old enough to go around saying things like, "Dad's boring," and "Dad only knows about boring things." (I blame Bluey for that abuse.)
 
grendel627 said:
And to say he's doing nothing to turn future generations on to jazz is mistaken, too. My kids (ages 4 and 2) love watching the Jazz at Lincoln Center Sesame Street special on PBS. That specical is one of the reasons they think Dad's interest in jazz is pretty cool. Otherwise they're old enough to go around saying things like, "Dad's boring," and "Dad only knows about boring things." (I blame Bluey for that abuse.)
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i can’t complain that much about a guy who gives a stage to Lew Tabakin and Toshiko Akiyoshi in order to dive deeply into her catalogue. I love JALC.
 
I don’t really get the gate keeping though. It’s not like it matters if he thinks fusion is Jazz. It is. It is widely accepted as such and the rest of the world left him behind.

I don’t think he is in a position to actively keep people from performing or recording.
 
Lee Newman said:
I don’t really get the gate keeping though. It’s not like it matters if he thinks fusion is Jazz. It is. It is widely accepted as such and the rest of the world left him behind.

I don’t think he is in a position to actively keep people from performing or recording.
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Counter point: a lot of people are scared of fusion and it’s such a hard movement to define. It simultaneously killed and brought new life to jazz. Like, jazz has been alienating audiences by and large since the advent of bop and became more niche. Jazz used to just be pop music!
 
David A. said:
Counter point: a lot of people are scared of fusion and it’s such a hard movement to define. It simultaneously killed and brought new life to jazz. Like, jazz has been alienating audiences by and large since the advent of bop and became more niche. Jazz used to just be pop music!
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But that has nothing to do with Marsalis.

In fact, he has probably brought lots of folks to jazz who then went on to explore other sub-genres including fusion and avant garde.

For example, He was one of the first attractions I had to Jazz. I came at him from knowing the classical stuff and then I was like, wait what? I checked out a copy of Think of One (along with Miles' Music From Siesta because I had read that Wynton liked Miles Davis) from the library. Think of One was the first jazz record I ever bought and it is still in the collection. A few years later, I was at the Jazz Festival in DC just soaking it all in, getting Malachi Thompson to sign a record. I'll be seeing Kamasi for the third time as my third concert post lockdown he'll share the stage that night with the Sun Ra Arkestra. That's why I dig Wynton and am always confused when people are like he's a twat. He's said some dumb shit. So what? @TenderLovingKiller® shits his pants, we all love him.

Branford on the other hand made the Buckshot LaFonque album but wants to call out other people as not making Jazz?
 
Lee Newman said:
But that has nothing to do with Marsalis.

In fact, he has probably brought lots of folks to jazz who then went on to explore other sub-genres including fusion and avant garde.

For example, He was one of the first attractions I had to Jazz. I came at him from knowing the classical stuff and then I was like, wait what? I checked out a copy of Think of One (along with Miles' Music From Siesta because I had read that Wynton liked Miles Davis) from the library. Think of One was the first jazz record I ever bought and it is still in the collection. A few years later, I was at the Jazz Festival in DC just soaking it all in, getting Malachi Thompson to sign a record. I'll be seeing Kamasi for the third time as my third concert post lockdown he'll share the stage that night with the Sun Ra Arkestra. That's why I dig Wynton and am always confused when people are like he's a twat. He's said some dumb shit. So what? @TenderLovingKiller® shits his pants, we all love him.

Branford on the other hand made the Buckshot LaFonque album but wants to call out other people as not making Jazz?
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Yeah, I mean, was watching Ken Burns’ Jazz when I was 11 a formative experience? Yes. Is the scope of that show too narrow? Absolutely. It needed at least three more hours to delve into Jazz post 1965.
 
David A. said:
Yeah, I mean, was watching Ken Burns’ Jazz when I was 11 a formative experience? Yes. Is the scope of that show too narrow? Absolutely. It needed at least three more hours to delve into Jazz post 1965.
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But you did that exploring
 
Lee Newman said:
But that has nothing to do with Marsalis.

In fact, he has probably brought lots of folks to jazz who then went on to explore other sub-genres including fusion and avant garde.

For example, He was one of the first attractions I had to Jazz. I came at him from knowing the classical stuff and then I was like, wait what? I checked out a copy of Think of One (along with Miles' Music From Siesta because I had read that Wynton liked Miles Davis) from the library. Think of One was the first jazz record I ever bought and it is still in the collection. A few years later, I was at the Jazz Festival in DC just soaking it all in, getting Malachi Thompson to sign a record. I'll be seeing Kamasi for the third time as my third concert post lockdown he'll share the stage that night with the Sun Ra Arkestra. That's why I dig Wynton and am always confused when people are like he's a twat. He's said some dumb shit. So what? @TenderLovingKiller® shits his pants, we all love him.

Branford on the other hand made the Buckshot LaFonque album but wants to call out other people as not making Jazz?
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Branford is responsible for the ‘Blow Branford Blow’ solo on I Love Your Smile. Best Motown track of the 90s
 
Lee Newman said:
But that has nothing to do with Marsalis.

In fact, he has probably brought lots of folks to jazz who then went on to explore other sub-genres including fusion and avant garde.

For example, He was one of the first attractions I had to Jazz. I came at him from knowing the classical stuff and then I was like, wait what? I checked out a copy of Think of One (along with Miles' Music From Siesta because I had read that Wynton liked Miles Davis) from the library. Think of One was the first jazz record I ever bought and it is still in the collection. A few years later, I was at the Jazz Festival in DC just soaking it all in, getting Malachi Thompson to sign a record. I'll be seeing Kamasi for the third time as my third concert post lockdown he'll share the stage that night with the Sun Ra Arkestra. That's why I dig Wynton and am always confused when people are like he's a twat. He's said some dumb shit. So what? @TenderLovingKiller® EVERY DAMN BODY shits their pants, and those that claim otherwise are liars.

Branford on the other hand made the Buckshot LaFonque album but wants to call out other people as not making Jazz?
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FIFY
 
Lee Newman said:
I don’t really get the gate keeping though. It’s not like it matters if he thinks fusion is Jazz. It is. It is widely accepted as such and the rest of the world left him behind.

I don’t think he is in a position to actively keep people from performing or recording.
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He’s the artistic director at Jazz at Lincoln Center which carries a lot of weight, especially for young performers trying to make a name for themselves.

You’re right in that what he says is by no means gospel and people can make their own minds up about what jazz is. I just think he’s a purist douche who wants jazz to fit into his own definitions so he can try to stay relevant.
 
Lee Newman said:
But you did that exploring
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But Burns having Wynton as his primary advisor on that series meant short-changing decades of jazz because Wynton was the gatekeeper and dismissed all of it as not meriting the coverage. Burns couldn't ignore that people kept making music within the loosely-defined genre, but he trusted Wynton, so it all got shoved into the last episode.

You can acknowledge all the good he's done while also acknowledging he's a small-minded asshole when it comes to the genre as a whole and he's actually gone out of his way to minimize the knowledge of anything he doesn't consider jazz.
 
serotonein said:
But Burns having Wynton as his primary advisor on that series meant short-changing decades of jazz because Wynton was the gatekeeper and dismissed all of it as not meriting the coverage. Burns couldn't ignore that people kept making music within the loosely-defined genre, but he trusted Wynton, so it all got shoved into the last episode.

You can acknowledge all the good he's done while also acknowledging he's a small-minded asshole when it comes to the genre as a whole and he's actually gone out of his way to minimize the knowledge of anything he doesn't consider jazz.
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I can do all that and also not think he's a twat. I just don't see where he has done anything that has hurt someone. He's probably done way more harm to himself... like having one of his idols go "you're the police" or have diatribes written about how Pulitzer doesn't matter because it was given to him.

@MikeH I'm betting young soul, fusion and free jazz artist's aren't knocking on JALO's door because they know he is there. It probably does more harm to the program than it does to those individuals who will find another avenue because that's clearly not the right avenue.
 
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