Political Discussion

I've spent the past couple days making peace with probably having to vote for Biden in November, that he's not as much of a loser as Bernie supporters would have me believe, and to be put off voting because of Biden is exactly what the people who got Trump elected want, that Bernie just didn't manage to connect with the people who he needed to this season, that Warren's not a "traitor" or whatever for not endorsing him immediately. I will happily vote for Biden come November.

Do I still get to be frustrated and disappointed?
 
ayayrawn said:
Saying small town folks “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them” (however true to some degree it may be) and then apologizing for it

=/=

Calling a blue collar worker "full of shit" to their face.
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If you don't think that Obama saying small town people clinging to guns and religion wasn't a giant fuck-up I don't know what to tell you. I get it. Biden sucks and your boy Bernie shit the bed but Obama nearly cost himself the nomination with that comment and I think it continues to haunt the democratic party and Joe Biden. The person that confronted Biden about guns likely got their narrative from the NRA in 2008 when they pounced on Obama's comments. It was significant and influenced if not directly caused a run on ammunition that lasted throughout Obama's first term. Maybe you were not a voter then so it didn't matter to you but it sure as hell mattered to blue collar workers and further polarized the country.

Someone who is more into weapons can help clarify that ammunition run timeline. Obama lost Pennsylvania in the '08 primary because of it.

From wikipedia entry on Obama '08 primary:

After Obama's win in Mississippi on March 11, 2008, the campaign turned its attention to Pennsylvania. Mid March polls by Rasmussen Reports,[155] Franklin & Marshall College Poll,[156] Quinnipiac University Polling Institute[157] and Public Policy Polling[158] had Obama trailing Clinton in Pennsylvania by 12 to 16 points. Dozens of campaign offices were opened around the state, including 8 in Philadelphia.[159] By the beginning of April, polls of Pennsylvanians showed Obama trailing Clinton by average of 5 points.[160]

Speaking about small-town Pennsylvania at a private April 6 fundraising event in Kentfield, CA, a small suburb of San Francisco located in neighboring Marin County, his remarks would be widely criticized after they were reported:


You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.[161]
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Hillary Clinton described the remarks as "elitist, out of touch, and frankly patronizing."[162] Noting he had not chosen his words well, Obama subsequently explained his remarks, "Lately there has been a little typical sort of political flare-up, because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois, who are bitter."[163] Obama had addressed similar themes in a 2004 interview with Charlie Rose,[164] and his strategists countered that Bill Clinton had made similar comments in 1991.[165]

Just hours prior Obama's remarks in San Francisco, he spoke in Silicon Valley at another private event, and expressed a much more nuanced understanding of the second amendment and rural America. He stated,


We need sensible gun laws. I just got back from Montana where just about everyone has guns. In that culture, fathers and sons bond over hunting. You can't take that away from rural America. But the inner city is different, and we should tighten the laws on gun purchases and close the loopholes in gun show sales to unscrupulous buyers. The gun control people and the right to bear arms people are talking past each other about disconnected topics.[166]
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That Obama's comments in San Francisco made wide media play but not the ones he spoke in Silicon Valley became a source of speculation about the media and its political coverage.[167]

On Friday, April 18, 2008, Obama spoke in Independence Park in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to a crowd of 35,000, the largest audience yet drawn during the campaign. The crowd was nearly twice what had been projected[168] and spilled over into nearby streets.[169] The next day, Obama conducted a whistle stop train tour from Philadelphia to Harrisburg, drawing a crowd of 6,000 at a stop in Wynnewood and 3,000 at a stop in Paoli.[170]

The last big event in the final week of the campaign was the April 16 debate on ABC-TV. Many pundits gave the edge to Hillary Clinton, though many were critical of moderators Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos.[171] A two-month-old controversy gained more exposure when Stephanopoulos questioned Obama during the debate about Obama's contacts with Weather Underground founder Bill Ayers.[172]

Polls during the debate week showed the momentum that had cut Clinton's lead by half had stalled. Despite being outspent by three to one,[173] Clinton would win the April 22 primary election with 54.6 percent of the vote, a solid nine-point margin over Obama's 45.4 percent.[174] Although Clinton remained behind in delegates, the press soon ran cover stories about Obama's apparent trouble connecting with less educated whites and Catholics.
 
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Phaneronic said:
I've spent the past couple days making peace with probably having to vote for Biden in November, that he's not as much of a loser as Bernie supporters would have me believe, and to be put off voting because of Biden is exactly what the people who got Trump elected want, that Bernie just didn't manage to connect with the people who he needed to this season, that Warren's not a "traitor" or whatever for not endorsing him immediately. I will happily vote for Biden come November.

Do I still get to be frustrated and disappointed?
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I wanted Bernie also, but I wouldn’t be so negative. His message reached more people than it did last time. Change takes time. It takes constant organizing and pressure. Someone will have to take the mantle though he’s getting old.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
State of emergency in Massachusetts due to the coronavirus.

We got the notice at work that unless you absolutely need to be in the office, work from home.

So I'm going to be working from home for the forseeible future.
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As someone who has worked from home for nearly a decade, I am available for advice on how to get through the wanking phase.
 
wmeugene said:
Would be a lot better than Rick Ross.
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Captainfog said:
Trump is sat back and sparking a big cigar after these results.
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Actually i think a strong Bernie Comeback this tuesday would have played more into Trumps Card. ´The longer and more vicious the fight for the dem candidate the better for him. Now Bidens Nomination is pretty clear and all Bernie can Archive is to bargain some prodgressive policies into Bidens platform. And i have the Feeling that the progressive attacks on Biden are going to be softer now that he is the potiental candidate you gave to Rally behind if you want to beat trump
 
Captainfog said:
Trump is sat back and sparking a big cigar after these results.
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Michigan turnout surpassed 2016's primary by a wide margin, and Biden improved on HRC's result by ~250K votes. Considering Trump won MI by just a shade over 10K votes, I'm not too sure this is great news for him. This seems like bitter Bernie Bro talk than anything else.
 
MikeH said:
They likely went to early voting where people voted for people no longer in the race, or write ins or absentee. Not 100% sure if Michigan has early voting in the primaries...
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Yeah, I saw that Tulsi actually finished no better than 5th in any of the states voting yesterday. Just because a candidate drops out doesn’t mean their name is removed from the ballot.
 
Btsvinylfarm said:
Michigan turnout surpassed 2016's primary by a wide margin, and Biden improved on HRC's result by ~250K votes. Considering Trump won MI by just a shade over 10K votes, I'm not too sure this is great news for him. This seems like bitter Bernie Bro talk than anything else.
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I agree with everything but the last line. People are entitled to be bummed when their candidate underperforms. The goal now is to get everyone on board for the general.

regarding the rest of your post, me and SO we’re really amazed last night at just how bad of a Candidate Hillary appears to have been, makes me wonder if she would have even won the nomination in 2016 had Biden thrown his hat in the ring then. I think I have a hard time wrapping my head around how reviled Hillary had become with a good portion of the electorate.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I agree with everything but the last line. People are entitled to be bummed when their candidate underperforms. The goal now is to get everyone on board for the general.

regarding the rest of your post, me and SO we’re really amazed last night at just how bad of a Candidate Hillary appears to have been, makes me wonder if she would have even won the nomination in 2016 had Biden thrown his hat in the ring then. I think I have a hard time wrapping my head around how reviled Hillary had become with a good portion of the electorate.
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It's sort of proving the whole "Americans won't elect a female president" narrative. Hillary was one of the most qualified candidates ever and the majority of people I know were reluctant to vote for her because she wasn't "likable". Biden is an establishment candidate like Hillary was and is somehow getting all of these votes now. I'm still somewhat surprised at how many endorsements he has gotten from the people who continually shat on him during the debates.
 
Btsvinylfarm said:
Michigan turnout surpassed 2016's primary by a wide margin, and Biden improved on HRC's result by ~250K votes. Considering Trump won MI by just a shade over 10K votes, I'm not too sure this is great news for him. This seems like bitter Bernie Bro talk than anything else.
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I’m hoping the Dems will have a much better showing without HRC in the picture this time around. I just hope she’s not Biden’s running mate. She needs to stay far away for the good of the party.

Edit: This isn’t anti female. It’s anti HRC.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
regarding the rest of your post, me and SO we’re really amazed last night at just how bad of a Candidate Hillary appears to have been, makes me wonder if she would have even won the nomination in 2016 had Biden thrown his hat in the ring then. I think I have a hard time wrapping my head around how reviled Hillary had become with a good portion of the electorate.
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She was a horrible candidate, and I voted for her. Lesser of the two evils. The Democratic Party thought the Clinton name would be enough. Clintons aren’t Kennedys and Hillary isn’t Bill.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
regarding the rest of your post, me and SO we’re really amazed last night at just how bad of a Candidate Hillary appears to have been, makes me wonder if she would have even won the nomination in 2016 had Biden thrown his hat in the ring then. I think I have a hard time wrapping my head around how reviled Hillary had become with a good portion of the electorate.
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HiFi Guy said:
She was a horrible candidate
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I assume you guys mean this in the sense that her candidacy wasn't optimal due to the ingrained prejudices of the public? Because
MikeH said:
Hillary was one of the most qualified candidates ever and the majority of people I know were reluctant to vote for her because she wasn't "likable".
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She had been getting demonized as the boogeyman by the Republican party for even longer than her husband. We've all been marinating in that for decades, and I think we have to acknowledge its impact on how most of us viewed her, consciously or not.
 
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