What Generations Are Buying What?

[JohnnyCashFan]

First, let me say - I think the vinyl boom has about 10 years max to go.

A combination of forces here.

First, prices have gone way up for new vinyl. The reasons for that I have discussed here several times.

Second, streaming has way, way overtaken physical product. labels don't want physical product. They only want streaming.

Third, the initial vinyl revival was fueled by older white males with serious disposable income who gravitated towards very conservative fare from their heyday - the 50's and 60's. The other end was fueled by younger people and basically gravitated around the metal market, where there was a major boom in vinyl. Those older white males have their collections now. The way to keep them buying is only to keep regurgitating Kind of Blue and The Doors, which for the moment, they will keep on buying. One-Steps, SRX, all that bullshit, are all aimed at this demo for whom price is not an obstacle. MOFI was once exciting, a discovery every month. Last MOFI I bought was Procol Harum's A Salty Dog. But that is reaching it's limit, as that demo dies out or gets to the point where enough is enough.

Fourth, the market is saturated. Too many releases. Too much product being pumped out. It's getting commoditized - again.

Fifth - younger people - in their 20's, it's only streaming, except for a few who view vinyl as a way to stand out from the crowd and be different. In their 30's and 40's, they all started on vinyl in the last 10 years or so, have a pretty decent collection, and are getting into buying a house, having kids, other priorities. It is coming to an end for them, or at least slowing down.

But - vinyl sales are still growing, although soon to approach a peak. From what I see, this has more to do with the older demo than younger, which is not a good sign.

When I returned to vinyl about 15 years ago, it was niche. Reissues were not the big sellers, metal was, and new indie artists. Classic Records brought the old folks out, and soon, MOFI got back into it. Speakers Corner was keeping it alive too, and occasionally AP got their feet in, but not in a big way. Rhino/Warners had one guy who was passionate about vinyl so they were in big from the start, but other majors were not. Kevin Grey was parked in a back room ar RTI, doing house mastering for whatever popped in, and forced to collaborate with Hoffman when he came to RTI. Bernie Grundman didn't even have a lathe anymore until Classic came knocking. This is how the reissue revival got started. There was no VMP. There were no One-Steps or SRX's. A Classic title - the premium product - sold for $30.

It was a product of passion, not a commodity market. There was no Discogs. No need - everything was pretty much available or could be found, and mostly at list price. You would go into a store and there were racks of Classic titles, MOFI's, Speakers Corner, Pure Pleasure and Rhinos. If something sold out, it took six months or over a year - and even then, could still be found. There were NO limited editions - or, they were all unadvertised limited editions, as the market wasn't huge.

That was the fun time to be into vinyl.

Then - the money got in control of the market. Collectors with money, labels looking at a high margin revenue stream. The growth in the market caused prices to rise for titles that had previously been easy to find for a fair price. Internet bullshit casued a rise in prices for original pressings, which in many cases were not all that great. Labels that had once been based on a purpose - to get more interesting music back on vinyl in great sound - MOFI, MMJ, AP, etc. - abandoned that purpose and became pure money grabbers. A few didn't - Speakers Corner, Pure Pleasure - and the only remaining major really committed to vinyl abandoned it, except for new releases. Labels found new ways to bring in a new type of buyer - the colored variant type buyer, who sought the exclusivity, perceived status and bragging rights - and were willing to pay more for that. The original type buyer, who fueled the vinyl revival, recoiled.

As a person who has worked in, and studied, marketing for his whole life, these are all signs of an industry in the throes of it's last cash grab opportunity before it all collapses. When it becomes a fashion market, it is nearing the end. It isn't so much about music anymore, too much of the market is about collectability, and the industry feeds that.

Personally, I can't wait for it all to cave in on itself. The music industry has a history of doing that to itself. Then, the only people left will be the music lovers who have a passion for vinyl as a superior music reproduction and archival format, and not because they have a limited to 250 worldwide splatter colored variant or a $100 45rpm box set of a warhorse they have bought 10 times already.

Wowza, another masterclass. Tx!

 

[RHANDMJ]

Final thoughts.

The original, circa 2000 - 2005 vinyl resurgence was driven by very different market forces.

Labels like Classic Records, Speakers Corner, Pure Pleasure, Shadoks, Wah-Wah, and a few others were driven by indie record stores, as the major stores - Tower, Virgin, HMV etc. were still entrenched in a CPG CD sales model.

You couldn't buy Classic, Speakers Corner, MOFI or any other audiophile vinyl label on Amazon, or at Target, or Urban Outfitters. The only online sellers/distributors were Elusive Disc, Acoustic Sounds, and a few others.

In other words, you had to work at it. And you treasured what you received. There were no free returns because you got a bent corner or your shit setup causes unfounded sonic defects. In fact, no one really had shit setups - you wouldn't go back to vinyl at that time if you weren't passionate and committed.

The people, like me, who grew up on vinyl and then got rid of it all and rebuilt their collections on CD came to a point where they realized that the dissatisfaction with CD sound they were increasingly sensing was not going to be fixed by any tweaks, accessories, or equipment upgrades - we just weren't enjoying it anymore.

There wasn't much difference between younger people and older people buying vinyl at that time - the younger grew up on vinyl too, just their parents vinyl.

There still those people around today, buying vinyl. But increasingly, the motivations for getting into vinyl have changed. It's now trendy. A novelty product in far, far too many cases. And as we all know, trendy becomes old fairly fast.

You have people now who came up purely through CD, and expect vinyl to be like CD, which it is not. You have collectors and flippers, while in 2005, colored vinyl was looked at correctly as a very inferior audio product. Kind of Blue was done by Bernie Grundman 15 years ago and sold for $30 on virgin black vinyl, now that same version can sell for $100 and be flipped fast - because the manufacturer wants that to happen, it boosts sales and cash flow for the next ones.

This is a very different market that it started out to be, with obvious consequences.

 

[nolalady]

This makes me think... what does the 20 year old outsider/weirdo do? The younger version of me who wants to hear the f-ed up punk shit? We were in the minority back then, but now I'm guessing minority of the minority.

What I'm really getting at is that once I die who will continue to love THE JESUS LIZARD?

Won't someone please think of THE JESUS LIZARD for once?

I'm on the tail end of GenX and in some texts they put me as a Millenial. I'm in my 40's and when I was a 20 y/o weirdo in the 2000's, I was getting many of my records through thrift store crate digging. I filled in some gaps with ebay--I grabbed a bunch of Bowie during this time because, priorities. I have been going through my record collection and I'm amazed at how clean some of my thrift store grabs are. I recently hit up Goodwill and found that many of those 50 cent records are now replaced with dollar CDs. So were I a 20 y/o weirdo, I would probably be picking up CDs. While I'm pretty stoked that I got some great stuff for very cheap, I would have LOVED to have streaming music back then. I would take home a record based on the cover some days just to see what the music sounded like. If I had streaming, I would have saved myself a lot of money and time.

I am a white female in her 40's and I find that I tend to buy rock and pop albums from the 90's all the way through to now. I will pick up some 80's titles, but most of what I want from the 60's-80's, I was able to find them second hand at the beginning of my collecting days. I do pick up jazz titles that tend to span from the 1950's to current. I like big band music, but I inherited my grandmother's big band collection and I don't really feel that I need more than what she left me. I did pick up a couple Sinatra records that we both loved that were ruined when her apartment got flooded. I like experimental stuff, art pop, and jazz and I've been exploring a lot more jazz now that I'm older. In my younger days, I gravitated towards punk and rock albums, and while I will pick up some punk titles (because Bad Religion is amazing), I tend to buy more jazz. I've been going back wards and listening, but I find that many of the jazz albums I gravitate towards are current albums.

 

[RHANDMJ]

I've been going back wards and listening, but I find that many of the jazz albums I gravitate towards are current albums.

Respect. There is a ton of great jazz being made today, in the U.K., France, continental Europe and even Australia.

I pity those who are stuck in the 1955 to 1965 or so bop period. Not the worst place to be stuck, but there is so much more to explore.

 

[JohnnyCashFan]

I'm on the tail end of GenX and in some texts they put me as a Millenial. I'm in my 40's and when I was a 20 y/o weirdo in the 2000's, I was getting many of my records through thrift store crate digging. I filled in some gaps with ebay--I grabbed a bunch of Bowie during this time because, priorities. I have been going through my record collection and I'm amazed at how clean some of my thrift store grabs are. I recently hit up Goodwill and found that many of those 50 cent records are now replaced with dollar CDs. So were I a 20 y/o weirdo, I would probably be picking up CDs. While I'm pretty stoked that I got some great stuff for very cheap, I would have LOVED to have streaming music back then. I would take home a record based on the cover some days just to see what the music sounded like. If I had streaming, I would have saved myself a lot of money and time.

I am a white female in her 40's and I find that I tend to buy rock and pop albums from the 90's all the way through to now. I will pick up some 80's titles, but most of what I want from the 60's-80's, I was able to find them second hand at the beginning of my collecting days. I do pick up jazz titles that tend to span from the 1950's to current. I like big band music, but I inherited my grandmother's big band collection and I don't really feel that I need more than what she left me. I did pick up a couple Sinatra records that we both loved that were ruined when her apartment got flooded. I like experimental stuff, art pop, and jazz and I've been exploring a lot more jazz now that I'm older. In my younger days, I gravitated towards punk and rock albums, and while I will pick up some punk titles (because Bad Religion is amazing), I tend to buy more jazz. I've been going back wards and listening, but I find that many of the jazz albums I gravitate towards are current albums.

Respect. There is a ton of great jazz being made today, in the U.K., France, continental Europe and even Australia.

I pity those who are stuck in the 1955 to 1965 or so bop period. Not the worst place to be stuck, but there is so much more to explore.

Kamasi Washington may be my favorite artist since John Coltrane 50 years ago!

Cyrus Chesnut, Roy Hargrove (rip), Joshua Redman, Christian Scott, Ambrose Akinmusire, Antonio Sanchez, Brad Mehldau, Joey Alexander, Nicholas Peyton, Miguel Zenon, Anat Cohen, Brian Blade, Gregory Porter, Cecile McLorin Salvant, all great young lions to name a few.

 

[RHANDMJ]

Kamasi Washington may be my favorite artist since John Coltrane 50 years ago!

Cyrus Chesnut, Roy Hargrove (rip), Joshua Redman, Christian Scott, Ambrose Akinmusire, Antonio Sanchez, Brad Mehldau, Joey Alexander, Nicholas Peyton, Miguel Zenon, Anat Cohen, Brian Blade, Gregory Porter, Cecile McLorin Salvante, all great young lions to name a few.

Some of those aren't so young anymore!

Matthew Halsall. Rebecca Nash. Sophie Alour. Nick Walters. Junko Onishi. Yazz Ahmed. Nina Mya.

So many others!

 

[JohnnyCashFan]

Some of those aren't so young anymore!

Matthew Halsall. Rebecca Nash. Sophie Alour. Nick Walters. Junko Onishi. Yazz Ahmed. Nina Mya.

So many others!

Alexander balances it out a little , although I just heard he's enrolled at college now!

 

[Selaws]

The comments about the current jazz scene are very interesting. Here in London collaboration is king and it's super refreshing to see the jazz musicians on the scene stepping up for one another, especially at live events. I'm going to Cross The Tracks festival next weekend (technically it's 2nd year) and the first time it debuted you would see musicians walking from one stage to the next in order to play as part of different peoples groups, or a lead themselves. Most of the jazz musicians here cut their teeth at live shows which essentially acted as informal jam sessions (The TRC in Dalston, Ghost Notes in Peckham, etc) and would have different line-ups depending on which musicians turned up wanting to jam. I can't really think of any other genre which encourages cross-pollination of ideas and musicians quite so freely.

Linking this to the question, I think it's interesting to see the likes of Shabaka Hutchings and Nubya Garcia actively buying records. Both have shared their recent pick-ups and collections on Instagram and Nubya especially has a decent about with several filled shelves. As musicians, it would be interesting to hear why they chose vinyl over streaming or CD's etc, and whether it's the same reasons that most of us do.

 

[Sprague Dawley]

If the store mentioned above really threw out 1000's of records rather than donated them to charity, thrift, or their local library, shame on them!

Oops, turns out vendor dumped them on a pal to do what he pleased with

if I can get Steel Pole Bathtub albums at a reasonable price, yay or nay? Help me out @Sprague Dawley

Butterfly Love 5/10
Tulip 5/10 although some have this as their best, the songs werent there for me. and then...
The Miracle Of Sound In Motion 10/10. magnum opus.
Scars From Falling Down 9/10
Unlistenable 10/10 completely inaccessible for normal people yet wild and beautiful. This CARS cover is hell on toast:

 

[jamieanderson1968]

Always loved their cover of Paranoid

 

[Sprague Dawley]

Appreciate this thread.

Just one additional data point: I find it disturbing on r/VinylCollectors, (when presumably most younger people?) sell albums with descriptions "still sealed" or "opened but never listened" or "listened to once." What made you buy this album, then?

I collect records. But I collect records to LISTEN TO THEM. Sure, on occasion I'll listen an LP a few times and decide it's not for me. Or a price will get ridiculous and I'll sell the album if someone wants to pay $130 so then I can buy ten others I want instead.

But that's not what I think is going on among a younger generation of record buyers. Is there some sort of conspicuous consumption then flip mentality happening that's satisfying to them?

Guessing they bought wholesale where they were kind of obligated to buy multiple copies of each LP to qualify for wholesale rates.