Vinyl Me Please (store, exclusives, swaps, etc)

[Btsvinylfarm]

Well, it is a marketing myth that is is better and cheaper to retain a customer than to acquire a new one. There is, in any business, a number of unprofitable customers or customers who simply absorb too much time and energy, taking away from the ability to tend to other customers.

It's not a myth ( nor is it marketing based, it's finance based) - customer acquisition is more expensive than customer retention. The idea of removing customers, instead of removing the problems that cause customer discontent or adding support to alleviate CS backlog, is bad business. If they are financially unable to improve quality or increase support staff at prices that are already above market rates, they don't have a revenue issue - they have a cost issue.

The guys who expect a replacement because a cover corner is bent. The guys who constantly demand a replacement because there is a pop or click somewhere.

A damaged or defective product is a damaged or defective product. The solution? Improved quality control. The market and VMP's competitors are able to handle these damage claims. If VMP cannot, there's a larger issue.

The cost of replacing that bent corner comes from the prices everyone pays.

But it shouldn't...it should come from negotiating power over the suppliers. VMP applauds themselves as one of the largest vinyl retailers; they have leverage over the suppliers - where these damages and defects originate - yet are apparently not utilizing it.

For some reason, even during the pandemic, my VMP monthly arrives around the second or early third week of the month, the packaging is sturdy and I have never received a damaged cover, and the pressings are always great.

And that is wonderful for you, and perhaps a reason to stay if you feel the value proposition is still reasonable at the new price. But your experience may not be indicative of that of the broader customer base.

I never understood how they could turn a profit with shipping included at the price.

Many labels and retailers offer this. Free shipping, alone, isn't the issue on profitability (though certainly sending 5 records in 5 separate packages is costly, but again that is an issue on their end - in fact, most of us would prefer everything arrive in a single package). Licensing is going to be a big cost (that Grateful Dead anthology was A) a horrible idea and B) likely an enormous expense), and issues with quality and customer experience are problematic.

When the quality went up - primarily the turn to top rank AAA mastering for Classics, and sometimes on Essentials, they started to attract audiophiles - the unprofitable, resource intensive type and it got away from being a cool curation service that gives subscribers a nice surprise every month, hopefully turning them on to something that they never heard before.

This was a deliberate decision on their part to attempt to attract audiophiles, and with that came expectations. But suggesting this customer base is an unprofitable one ignores that Music Direct (Mobile Fidelity's parent), Acoustic Sounds (Analogue Productions' parent), and other audiophile outlets all seem to enjoy profitability. The other issue is that VMP's "audiophile titles", mainly Classics as Essentials is far and few between AAA pressings, do not directly compete with MoFi or AP. At $43 for a month-to-month, $33 for an add-on, single 33rpm LP they are pricing at-to-above MoFi/AP pricing and yet the quality is not on equal footing. That's before considering the quality defects, or transit damage and shipping delays.

I don't know if I will renew. If it seems like interesting titles are coming up, I would. Maybe grudgingly - no one likes a big price hit - but the truth is, so often VMP gives me records that no one else would reissue and in highest quality, and my quality of life is better for it, so I probably will.

I think the bold is a false premise. In fact, I'd argue that MOST of what VMP provides is available elsewhere (for less money) and the quality is not a differentiating factor in more than 50% of cases.

 

[MikeH]

I think the bold is a false premise. In fact, I'd argue that MOST of what VMP provides is available elsewhere (for less money) and the quality is not a differentiating factor in more than 50% of cases.

This is the part where VMP really lost me. They are becoming more and more like Newbury Comics and less like what they used to be. They maybe have 2-3 true exclusives per month now. Even the Rising albums can be purchased outside of VMP.

 

[Rowan]

This is the part where VMP really lost me. They are becoming more and more like Newbury Comics and less like what they used to be. They maybe have 2-3 true exclusives per month now. Even the Rising albums can be purchased outside of VMP.

I just think they tried to run, jump, fly, build planes, create empires etc when they were just learning to walk. In a way Gorillaz was the worst thing that happened to them. They turned in to some sort of wild vinyl seller junkie looking for that next big repress high when they should have just stuck to the programme (although I'm assuming there was an actual growth programme and incremental business plan here and they haven't just been winging it the whole time).

If I'm reading you right I'm like you. I look at the stuff that comes in the store these days and Fiona aside (and the ridiculously low priced APs) more often than not just think 'nah... fuck it', close the screen and put my paypal login away. I don't think they're churning out consistently winning stuff. In fact aside from the Fionas and Ambrose Akinmusire (and possibly Alfredo had I been paying attention) I can't recall an exclusive that has popped up in the store that I've bothered my arse to buy in over a year. I actually think the best album I've had from them since maybe Flaming Lips in the AP LA Woman that was a curated buy and that I got through a store credit swap. I'm annoyed to be missing out on Spiritualized (assuming I don't break and resub for 3 months at their discounted rate to get it) but, while I'd usually take one of their picks when it comes to it, I'd not be bothered if i didn't have BVSC or Stevie Nicks etc. They're nice to have but they aren't hidden gems. They're well know records and I've had 20 years to buy those albums if I really wanted them and haven't found the will to do it yet (despite seeing them on the shelves of numerous record shops in that period) and I don't think I'd miss them if they weren't on my shelf and I'm not sure I want to run the risk of a Caroline Rose or Jon Mayer in my collection at any price, let alone VMP prices.

 

[MikeH]

I just think they tried to run, jump, fly, build planes, create empires etc when they were just learning to walk. In a way Gorillaz was the worst thing that happened to them. They turned in to some sort of wild vinyl seller junkie looking for that next big repress high when they should have just stuck to the programme (although I'm assuming there was an actual growth programme and incremental business plan here and they haven't just been winging it the whole time).

If I'm reading you right I'm like you. I look at the stuff that comes in the store these days and Fiona aside (and the ridiculously low priced APs) more often than not just think 'nah... fuck it', close the screen and put my paypal login away. I don't think they're churning out consistently winning stuff. In fact aside from the Fionas and Ambrose Akinmusire (and possibly Alfredo had I been paying attention) I can't recall an exclusive that has popped up in the store that I've bothered my arse to buy in over a year. I actually think the best album I've had from them since maybe Flaming Lips in the AP LA Woman that was a curated buy and that I got through a store credit swap. I'm annoyed to be missing out on Spiritualized (assuming I don't break and resub for 3 months at their discounted rate to get it) but, while I'd usually take one of their picks when it comes to it, I'd not be bothered if i didn't have BVSC or Stevie Nicks etc. They're nice to have but they aren't hidden gems. They're well know records and I've had 20 years to buy those albums if I really wanted them and haven't found the will to do it yet (despite seeing them on the shelves of numerous record shops in that period) and I don't think I'd miss them if they weren't on my shelf and I'm not sure I want to run the risk of a Caroline Rose or Jon Mayer in my collection at any price, let alone VMP prices.

Even the AP albums are more expensive in the US than they are through Acoustic Sounds. VMP still makes some sense if you're an international customer with the shipping costs if you were to shop elsewhere. But for most US customers, it doesn't make much sense anymore, especially if you have a fairly large record collection. They are mostly remastering/pressing easy to find albums with the occasional rarity or awesome album.

 

[CCKrone]

It's not a myth ( nor is it marketing based, it's finance based) - customer acquisition is more expensive than customer retention. The idea of removing customers, instead of removing the problems that cause customer discontent or adding support to alleviate CS backlog, is bad business. If they are financially unable to improve quality or increase support staff at prices that are already above market rates, they don't have a revenue issue - they have a cost issue.

A damaged or defective product is a damaged or defective product. The solution? Improved quality control. The market and VMP's competitors are able to handle these damage claims. If VMP cannot, there's a larger issue.

But it shouldn't...it should come from negotiating power over the suppliers. VMP applauds themselves as one of the largest vinyl retailers; they have leverage over the suppliers - where these damages and defects originate - yet are apparently not utilizing it.

And that is wonderful for you, and perhaps a reason to stay if you feel the value proposition is still reasonable at the new price. But your experience may not be indicative of that of the broader customer base.

Many labels and retailers offer this. Free shipping, alone, isn't the issue on profitability (though certainly sending 5 records in 5 separate packages is costly, but again that is an issue on their end - in fact, most of us would prefer everything arrive in a single package). Licensing is going to be a big cost (that Grateful Dead anthology was A) a horrible idea and B) likely an enormous expense), and issues with quality and customer experience are problematic.

This was a deliberate decision on their part to attempt to attract audiophiles, and with that came expectations. But suggesting this customer base is an unprofitable one ignores that Music Direct (Mobile Fidelity's parent), Acoustic Sounds (Analogue Productions' parent), and other audiophile outlets all seem to enjoy profitability. The other issue is that VMP's "audiophile titles", mainly Classics as Essentials is far and few between AAA pressings, do not directly compete with MoFi or AP. At $43 for a month-to-month, $33 for an add-on, single 33rpm LP they are pricing at-to-above MoFi/AP pricing and yet the quality is not on equal footing. That's before considering the quality defects, or transit damage and shipping delays.

I think the bold is a false premise. In fact, I'd argue that MOST of what VMP provides is available elsewhere (for less money) and the quality is not a differentiating factor in more than 50% of cases.

Thank you for writing this out.
I was thinking the same thing.
Dude lost me at the first line and then it got worse as I read it.

 

[wmeugene]

Even the AP albums are more expensive in the US than they are through Acoustic Sounds. VMP still makes some sense if you're an international customer with the shipping costs if you were to shop elsewhere. But for most US customers, it doesn't make much sense anymore, especially if you have a fairly large record collection. They are mostly remastering/pressing easy to find albums with the occasional rarity or awesome album.

This is true. At the new prices, the only things that are worth it to me are albums like Spiritualized and McCoy Tyner. There used to be at least 1 per month of that quality, but not this year. They better advertise months ahead if they want me to resub after September, but if the goal is to cull some customers out, I don’t see them doing an announcement.

 

[MikeH]

This is true. At the new prices, the only things that are worth it to me are albums like Spiritualized and McCoy Tyner. There used to be at least 1 per month of that quality, but not this year. They better advertise months ahead if they want me to resub after September, but if the goal is to cull some customers out, I don’t see them doing an announcement.

It's still just mind-blowing that the plan to get things right is to alienate their customers who spend tons of money each month. I can just see Lloyd Starr walking into a meeting and saying:

Guys--instead of hiring someone qualified to fix logistics and streamline all of our processes...what if...hear me out...we raise prices to get RID of customers. We will have less issues if we have less customers! It's just simple math really...

If they can't get their shit together at the new pricing structure, they will be done as a company. I sort of think that at this point, nobody who is qualified at all wants to take on the gargantuan task of trying to right the ship. They hired Lloyd who seems to be a bit of a snake oil salesman and the company has gone downhill since (I know Sev leaving was a huge part of the downturn too). I'm pretty sure he was COO of beatport when they went bankrupt. They lost $5.5 million in 2015 with Lloyd as COO/President, he left in Jan 2016 and they declared bankruptcy in march 2016. I also have no doubt that Lloyd was the "brains" behind the Dead box set.

 

[spilledleche]

ultimately, what they've proven is that this model of media curation works in this time and place. they just aren't the company to carry it forward due to one boneheaded logistical decision or another.

if they cease to exist tomorrow, someone else will appear to fill the void.

 

[MikeH]

ultimately, what they've proven is that this model of media curation works in this time and place. they just aren't the company to carry it forward due to one boneheaded logistical decision or another.

if they cease to exist tomorrow, someone else will appear to fill the void.

I don't know why some other company doesn't try to swoop in and take advantage of the market as VMP screws up over and over again. I know there are some ROTM clubs through labels like Secretly or Magnolia, but we know there's a market for this kind of product yet nobody has really tried to take on VMP. Maybe it's not the best time with the lacquer factory burning down and delays in shipping, but surely somebody could come in and take a dent out of the market share that VMP seems to have.

 

[spilledleche]

I don't know why some other company doesn't try to swoop in and take advantage of the market as VMP screws up over and over again. I know there are some ROTM clubs through labels like Secretly or Magnolia, but we know there's a market for this kind of product yet nobody has really tried to take on VMP. Maybe it's not the best time with the lacquer factory burning down and delays in shipping, but surely somebody could come in and take a dent out of the market share that VMP seems to have.

i think Secretly and Magnolia work well (for the most part) because they're scaled in house, putting out variants of their own product. VMP's ambition to find, curate, and then license and manufacture very disparate types of records from who knows how many different companies has to be a total clusterfuck. It's honestly kind of surprising they can put out the amount of product they do.

 

[mdmost]

I just want my pending records from them so I can be done with all this. None of my August records have even moved to the label generation phase. Both Fionas should be in there too but nothing yet.

 

[MikeH]

i think Secretly and Magnolia work well (for the most part) because they're scaled in house, putting out variants of their own product. VMP's ambition to find, curate, and then license and manufacture very disparate types of records from who knows how many different companies has to be a total clusterfuck. It's honestly kind of surprising they can put out the amount of product they do.

Yea it's impressive to a point but it's also likely why they have shifted to doing mostly color variants of existing records. They have relationships with a lot of labels and it doesn't take much work from VMP to just get a color variant of a new release or reissue. For curation, they seem to just be mostly getting color variants of reissues from Tidal Waves, Real Gone, LITA, Now-Again, etc. They don't do much on that front. Rising and some of the ROTMs are the only exclusives where VMP has to go through the whole manufacturing process and even with some of those, it's just a color reissue. BVSC doesn't seem like they had to do too much for it. They got new lacquers cut but no remaster or anything like that and the booklet and everything already existed.

 

[spilledleche]

I just want my pending records from them so I can be done with all this. None of my August records have even moved to the label generation phase. Both Fionas should be in there too but nothing yet.

got a shipping notice for BVSC at 230am this morning, so that's a real look inside their shipping process. would much rather just have my Fionas though.

 

[spilledleche]

Yea it's impressive to a point but it's also likely why they have shifted to doing mostly color variants of existing records. They have relationships with a lot of labels and it doesn't take much work from VMP to just get a color variant of a new release or reissue. For curation, they seem to just be mostly getting color variants of reissues from Tidal Waves, Real Gone, LITA, Now-Again, etc. They don't do much on that front. Rising and some of the ROTMs are the only exclusives where VMP has to go through the whole manufacturing process and even with some of those, it's just a color reissue. BVSC doesn't seem like they had to do too much for it. They got new lacquers cut but no remaster or anything like that and the booklet and everything already existed.

I get what you're saying, but you also just listed out a ton of logistical and manufacturing work for a company that can't even figure out how to answer its customer service queue in a satisfactory fashion

 

[MikeH]

I just want my pending records from them so I can be done with all this. None of my August records have even moved to the label generation phase. Both Fionas should be in there too but nothing yet.

I cancelled a bunch of preorders but was also pretty backed up. I got 6 different tracking emails on Friday for Fiona, BVSC, my add-on swap (Sampa), Skull Session, Dashboard and Jaunt which I tried to cancel to buy from the band but VMP never responded...I think all that's left for me will be Spiritualized next month with my sub ending and Alfredo then I'm out!

 

[radiodead]

I will probably reup at the 3 month price because I want Spiritualized but after that I’m most likely done unless I decided to dip back in for a record I decide is worth $44 like a De La Soul type deal.

 

[kvetcha]

Yeah, my 3-month processed a couple days before the ish hit the anf, but they're not getting anything else from me after that.

 

[MikeH]

I get what you're saying, but you also just listed out a ton of logistical and manufacturing work for a company that can't even figure out how to answer its customer service queue in a satisfactory fashion

lol But VMP doesn't do the manufacturing work on probably 80% of their product now. They tell a label then want a color exclusive, it gets shipped to them and they mail it out. It shouldn't be so difficult. I think the biggest issue is their website is still awful and they simply do not know how to communicate effectively at all in any part of their company. It goes to what someone (maybe @Joe Mac ) said in that 90% of the people that work at VMP would not get hired at any companies with a good track record. Most of the people there are not qualified for their roles...

 

[Btsvinylfarm]

ultimately, what they've proven is that this model of media curation works in this time and place. they just aren't the company to carry it forward due to one boneheaded logistical decision or another.

if they cease to exist tomorrow, someone else will appear to fill the void.

VMP won't ever "cease to exist"; they'll be acquired when the valuation is right.

 

[MikeH]

VMP won't ever "cease to exist"; they'll be acquired when the valuation is right.

I feel like they have been looking for VC capital and investors for a long time. Someone might buy them if they go bankrupt but I have a feeling their balance sheets are an absolute nightmare.