Vinyl Me Please Essentials

Captainfog said:
I dunno if you are referring to me, but I'm still a VMP subscriber!

Admin are all broadly on the same page as each other on this issue. We are currently hashing together a thing which will allow the community to vote on how to handle VMP threads moving forwards. Don't know when it will get finished but expect something to happen in the next day or so.

It's been 2 weeks and we're all still finding our way ;)
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Plus since this forum does not represent a company and is on purpose without one leader i don't see why admins shoul not have different views on topics
 
dhodo said:
I understand. I just really like this place and the mission statement and it seems weird to me to limit thread count related to a specific vinyl club unless the threads are duplicates without some forum wide rules to refer to.
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Sure, I understand, I really do. In some ways we are in a tricky spot because there are a lot of opposing views on this subject within the community and a lot of strongly held opinions. We're trying our best to reach a compromise.
 
Captainfog said:
Sure, I understand, I really do. In some ways we are in a tricky spot because there are a lot of opposing views on this subject within the community and a lot of strongly held opinions. We're trying our best to reach a compromise.
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Thanks for all the time you and the other admins spend to make this place an even better place. Do what you think is the best.
 
Captainfog said:
I dunno if you are referring to me, but I'm still a VMP subscriber!

Admin are all broadly on the same page as each other on this issue. We are currently hashing together a thing which will allow the community to vote on how to handle VMP threads moving forwards. Don't know when it will get finished but expect something to happen in the next day or so.

It's been 2 weeks and we're all still finding our way ;)
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I strenuously disagree on even whether there should be a "vote", however you structure it. Should we have a community vote on any thread with which we disagree? It's fine for people to have strong feelings, even negative ones (I'm not a fucking ray of sunshine, that's for sure), but they can just ignore the thread(s) causing those negative feelings. Having a vote at all shows me the moderators are willing to tell community members that they aren't welcome here if they want to have a vinyl discussion around a topic/club that others don't (potentially, depending on how many people actually choose to voice an opinion).

As others have said, including me, there's a good chance that there's likely to be a natural shift over the next year. If there isn't a shift in discussion, well, that's something we'll all learn, too. I appreciate the work put in by everyone, especially the moderators, but I had to voice my perspective on this particular decision.
 
Captainfog said:
Sure, I understand, I really do. In some ways we are in a tricky spot because there are a lot of opposing views on this subject within the community and a lot of strongly held opinions. We're trying our best to reach a compromise.
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It just seems weird to limit what people, still subscribed to VMP, are allowed to post about because others are mad at the company. If Secretly Society ever does me wrong, can I have that thread stopped?

I feel like having any rule about it will just make it a bigger issue than it is (which I think is a pretty small issue). Just let people make threads for the conversation they're having. If it's not a popular one then it will find its way off the front page. If it stays near the top, then obviously enough people are talking about it to warrant the thread. Nature will work itself out here, no need to make or add any rules for this.

Should we say that Tom Waits isn't allowed his own thread because much fewer people are posting in it than The National? Are there going to be polls before every new thread? This is all making much more of a thing than the thing is.

There's currently over 750 people on this forum. Maybe only 12 of them want to talk about a subject without having to parse between other posts. Why would I have any right to tell them not to do that just because I'm one of the 738 that won't post in there?

Bottom Line: My two cents say, No Extra Rules. Obviously, the standard "Be nice to eachother". Outside of that, let the threads build as they organically do.
 
Widget said:
It just seems weird to limit what people, still subscribed to VMP, are allowed to post about because others are mad at the company. If Secretly Society ever does me wrong, can I have that thread stopped?

I feel like having any rule about it will just make it a bigger issue than it is (which I think is a pretty small issue). Just let people make threads for the conversation they're having. If it's not a popular one then it will find its way off the front page. If it stays near the top, then obviously enough people are talking about it to warrant the thread. Nature will work itself out here, no need to make or add any rules for this.

Should we say that Tom Waits isn't allowed his own thread because much fewer people are posting in it than The National? Are there going to be polls before every new thread? This is all making much more of a thing than the thing is.

There's currently over 750 people on this forum. Maybe only 12 of them want to talk about a subject without having to parse between other posts. Why would I have any right to tell them not to do that just because I'm one of the 738 that won't post in there?

Bottom Line: My two cents say, No Extra Rules. Obviously, the standard "Be nice to eachother". Outside of that, let the threads build as they organically do.
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no one is advocating removing every singular VMP thread though
 
Sure, but making rules about any posts, will eventually lead to broadening those rules, even if by accident. Why even start it when it's not needed? Again, if a thread isn't needed it will fall to the back pages. If it stays up front, then it's shown it was needed. There's no rule needed for that.
 
marshall said:
Maybe we can encourage people with ongoing issues to keep them in the RIP thread then? Keep the talk in the Essentials/Classics/RHH or Store Exclusives to just discussing that stuff. I don't want anyone to feel like an "Outkast" for being excited about a new release or whatever (See what I did there?)
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I can't tell if this is a joke or not? People should absolutely be able to voice their complaints and concerns with the club tracks in the threads for those tracks. This was discouraged on the VMP forums because it was a business and might discourage customers. This is not the case here.
LG&M said:
Has a thread not dedicated to VMP gone off track due to a VMP discussion? It feels like a little odd (and maybe disingenuous) for someone to complain about VMP being discussed in a thread dedicated to that topic. There are multiple jazz threads -- it would be obnoxious if I were to wade into one of those discussions, tell everyone that jazz was a dead art form, that the people who listen to it are out of touch and demand that all the jazz discussions be limited to a single thread so that I do not have to see so many of them.

I had been under the impression that this was going to be a community-led vinyl enthusiast forum. If a bunch of members of that community enjoy having a handful of different discussions about a specific vinyl club then let them. If you don't enjoy those discussions then don't take part, but it feels dangerous to administratively throttle those discussions because some people don't like the club in question. Honestly, this whole conversation has made me question whether I want to be a part of this community going forward -- it feels like the "cool kids" with hundreds of posts are deciding what perspectives are going to be embraced by *their* club. What is this garbage about "giving free advertising to VMP"? Is the mission of this forum to harm VMP in retaliation for shutting down their forum, and we are going to be admonished if we have something good to say about VMP? Would it be so awful if *both* this forum and VMP (and other record clubs) were wildly successful going forward? If people were able to discuss what they liked and what they didn't, and VMP maybe saw some of that feedback and improved their service accordingly? When this forum was started, I recall at least one founder stating that this was not intended to be an anti-VMP, but a broader community that included VMP members and would eventually grow into something better (and healthier) than where we came from. I couldn't agree more, and I also think that artificially limiting VMP-focused discussions is antithetical to that goal.
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dhodo said:
The last day or so of posts in this thread makes it seem like not all of the moderators are on the same page in terms of the explicit statement in the about N&G thread that this forum isn't anti-anything else.

I think the moderators need to quickly draw up rules applying to every topic and strictly enforce them if threads are going to be abruptly shut down and merged into other threads that have the same overarching topic but different specific focuses. So far it seems like the only reason given was that there are too many VMP threads, which hasn't been defined as a forum rule, to my knowledge. Are the Hip Hop and best 50 hip hop albums of all time all that different? I just think it should be made a clear rule enforced across the board or not enforced if it isn't a rule. At the moment it comes across as rather one sided and doesn't seem to jive with the mission statement IMO.

For the record, I think the shutting down of the forums was crap and I believe that the many people that are more and less upset than me about it have completely valid opinions. However, some of the mods have made some responses in this thread that at least imply that they are critical of people who are still enthusiastic about VMP. I dunno if that is good from an official representative of the community when the mission statement says what it says.
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Organization was always going to be and will always be a factor in maintaining this forum. Merging duplicate threads or threads that might be close enough to feed off one another is standard, and while we're still so young, the optics of the Club forum dominated by one club (there are 7 VMP threads of what? 30 club posts?) matters to a lot of members. Personally, I think limiting the club forum to 1 thread per company is best, but we ARE listening to the community. The whole community. Not just those who don't want VMP to have more than one thread or those who think they should re-create every dedicated VMP product thread they ever enjoyed. I'm sorry if anything I or any of the rest of the Admin team said gave you the impression that the forum would be a free-for-all. It won't. And we may have to manage certain aspects early on more than we will find necessary in the future if the forum continues to grow.

We were given 2 days notice and this forum is 2 weeks old. I could quickly draw up rules and enforce them no problem, but I don't think you would like it. It is a good thing that the Admin team has a variety of perspectives, and I think you can recognize that if we hastily made rules we strictly enforced and then changed our minds, that would come with a host of other problems, even if you personally preferred it or understood what we were attempting to accomplish. We are trying to let people largely manage themselves within boundaries that we are still defining due to the brief period of time we've had to work with. We are also trying to find a reasonable compromise given the strong feelings related to various facets of VMP.

From my perspective, VMP themselves have indicated that Reddit, Facebook, and Twitter are their preferred methods of information sharing, and I think recreating so much of the forum they jettisoned prevents them from seeing the true impact--we are picking up their slack by default, which is not really something I'm interested in doing. But again, this isn't just my forum, and you can see why you might not want me making all the rules and strictly enforcing them. ;)
 
Widget said:
Sure, but making rules about any posts, will eventually lead to broadening those rules, even if by accident. Why even start it when it's not needed? Again, if a thread isn't needed it will fall to the back pages. If it stays up front, then it's shown it was needed. There's no rule needed for that.
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So how many VMP threads are needed? There are 5 right now.
 
Widget said:
Sure, but making rules about any posts, will eventually lead to broadening those rules, even if by accident. Why even start it when it's not needed? Again, if a thread isn't needed it will fall to the back pages. If it stays up front, then it's shown it was needed. There's no rule needed for that.
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This is all about thinking about it for the future and the history of how we got here, there is no need to go to the slippery slope argument/whataboutism
 
Skalap said:
So how many VMP threads are needed? There are 5 right now.
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It's a bit tricky because the three tracks probably do warrant their own discussion and people are going to want to talk about Exclusives too. I think one VMP thread would be pretty chaotic TBH. I don't personally subsctibe to Classics or RHH and to be honest, I wouldn't want to skip through pages of discussion about them to talk about Essentials.
 
dbarila said:
It's a bit tricky because the three tracks probably do warrant their own discussion and people are going to want to talk about Exclusives too. I think one VMP thread would be pretty chaotic TBH. I don't personally subsctibe to Classics or RHH and to be honest, I wouldn't want to skip through pages of discussion about them to talk about Essentials.
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and I think that is true for now, I think in the future that will change due to fewer posts especially with the decrease in getting hints
 
dbarila said:
It's a bit tricky because the three tracks probably do warrant their own discussion and people are going to want to talk about Exclusives too. I think one VMP thread would be pretty chaotic TBH. I don't personally subsctibe to Classics or RHH and to be honest, I wouldn't want to skip through pages of discussion about them to talk about Essentials.
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This 1000%. There's 64 pages of Anthology. It's not even a main track. Could you imagine having to parse through 64 extra pages of discussion to find info on the RHH release?

Indymisanthrope said:
Ah, now we can finally turn to the real enemy: ourselves.
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