Vinyl as an investment video...

MikeH said:
I’m not gonna watch the video but if he has 2 OG Blue Trains sealed, he’s definitely showing this video because Jazz Record Center just sold an OG copy of Blue Train for $12,000 on eBay and it wasn’t even sealed.
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granted I think the sealed ones were newer copies, but I think his comment saying "(I have) maybe less than 20" is just goofy, he showed 10% of his sealed records in that video.

Dunno the number of records he has, but I am sure he has more than 20 sealed records. Seems like he's trying to save face or something
 
NoTrend said:
also he just posted a comment and pasted it on top of the video... about how he doesn't have any more than 20 sealed records...dude you showed about 2 blue trains that were sealed.... this guy is super disingenuous.

I don't even care about sealed records, I have sealed records I just haven't gotten to yet, but come on

edit: here is the comment

was sure this video would stir some discussion, and it did, but I needed to clarify a few things. My collection is not about sealed records; I have very few—maybe less than 20. For me, it's about the music and the experience of listening to these records, regardless of their value. 99.9% of records will never skyrocket in price; they may appreciate over time, but they will always be within reach. However, the super rare iconic records, in my view, are undervalued and could see a significant increase in value in the coming years. Part of the point of this video was pointing out that the very rarest and most desirable records sell for 100x times less than there counterparts in other collectible marketplaces and in my opinion that is going to change. Other than some exceptions, I don't see slabbing becoming huge immediately with non-sealed records, but who will open and play a sealed original Dark Side Of The Moon? Dropping the value from $2,000 to $100? That is the perfect candidate for slabbing. Also, the caliber of records I'm talking about seldom come in the shop, so It's not like I'm pushing these records up to line my pockets.
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Ugh, he had an auction shortly after? What a douche.

This is the same way comic shops are. You have to hype the new product, you have to inflate the price of the collector’s items and have to hype that.

Has the legitimacy of record collectors ever been a question and even if it was, is more valuable records the issue?

Collectible as investment is a dumb way to plan your retirement or to look at your hobby.

Comparing the Velvet Underground album to another piece of Warhol’s art is dumb.

There’s just so much wrong with all of this.

That being said, if people want to slab their records, so be it. Whatever floats your boat man.

What’s funny is there are a lot of record collectors, myself included, who realize that their collection will be a burden on their loved ones after they pass.
 
Lee Newman said:
Ugh, he had an auction shortly after? What a douche.

I mean though this is the same way comic shops are. You have to hype the new product, you have to inflate the price of the collector’s items and have to hype that.

Has the legitimacy of record collectors ever been a question and even if it was, is more valuable records the issue?

Collectible as investment is a dumb way to plan your retirement or to look at your hobby.

Comparing the Velvet Underground album to another piece of Warhol’s art is dumb.

There just so much wrong with all of this.

That being said, if people want to slab their records, so be it. Whatever floats your boat man.

What’s funny is there are a lot of record collectors, myself included, who realize that their collection will be a burden on their loved ones after they pass.
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Yeah unless my niece or nephew, or any future ones, become massively interested and just wants it I know it’s a collection, of both music and gear, that’s heavy, takes up a tonnes of space and is not able to be moved at value unless you take a lot of time and effort selling each piece individually over a period of years.

At least I’m not hoarder in general though, I’ve house shared with some very strange individuals with hoarding tendencies down the years and that’s not fun at all!
 
Lee Newman said:
Ugh, he had an auction shortly after? What a douche.

This is the same way comic shops are. You have to hype the new product, you have to inflate the price of the collector’s items and have to hype that.

Has the legitimacy of record collectors ever been a question and even if it was, is more valuable records the issue?

Collectible as investment is a dumb way to plan your retirement or to look at your hobby.

Comparing the Velvet Underground album to another piece of Warhol’s art is dumb.

There’s just so much wrong with all of this.

That being said, if people want to slab their records, so be it. Whatever floats your boat man.

What’s funny is there are a lot of record collectors, myself included, who realize that their collection will be a burden on their loved ones after they pass.
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I hear you. I have made sure in my will that there are people to do what needs to be done with my collection. I would be foolish to say I am going to keep this many until the day I die, but for now, I don't see me getting rid of anything. But i also really don't sell records or flip. I normally give records to friends. Doesn't really matter to me the price (sure, I''m not going to give away a $200 records, but you get the idea).

Not saying that for a pat on the back. It more comes down to I just want to share cool stuff with my friends...I'm also just lazy haha. But a lot of my friends are record collectors, but like myself (for the most part) don't engage with the online VC stuff...more so the VC YouTuber community. Which any time I try to check out that world, just seems super toxic (but I am sure that is with any fandom youtube community I assume)

Yeah, the auction showed up in my feed (I think it's private now) but it was like this 3 hour auction


I am not going to go all Fugazi on the guy and call him out on trying to make a dollar. I get it to some degree, when I owned a record store of course I needed to make money....but I also have different morals and values in terms of how I make those dollars. I am not saying I'm better a better person than Mike or whatever...I dunno as i keep saying to me it feels just gross.

What really bugs me, and why I guess I have been more active in this thread than any other thread on here in the 5 or so years I've been here is I'm sure he's not the only one and it's a bummer that this could be the direction this hobby goes (I'm sure people here will reassure me I'm wrong, please do haha) but like every culture or interest, when there are major dollars to make, someone will exploit it. High priced records aren't anything new.

OG Dischord releases for example have always been pretty high (and mike is right, at least from a 7" perspective, punk and really American 80s hardcore really have been leading the way for major prices for OGs)...but it's just funny to me that a guy that has nothing to do with punk and really could careless about it (I know I said that here already) is using that as one of the main reasons we should slab and grade these records. I guess it was bound to happen, but it's wild to hear him basically just say it so brutally...and it really does come off as a guy who does not care about anything but making money...it does not matter who gets stepped on.
 
NoTrend said:
I hear you. I have made sure in my will that there are people to do what needs to be done with my collection. I would be foolish to say I am going to keep this many until the day I die, but for now, I don't see me getting rid of anything. But i also really don't sell records or flip. I normally give records to friends. Doesn't really matter to me the price (sure, I''m not going to give away a $200 records, but you get the idea).

Not saying that for a pat on the back. It more comes down to I just want to share cool stuff with my friends...I'm also just lazy haha. But a lot of my friends are record collectors, but like myself (for the most part) don't engage with the online VC stuff...more so the VC YouTuber community. Which any time I try to check out that world, just seems super toxic (but I am sure that is with any fandom youtube community I assume)

Yeah, the auction showed up in my feed (I think it's private now) but it was like this 3 hour auction


I am not going to go all Fugazi on the guy and call him out on trying to make a dollar. I get it to some degree, when I owned a record store of course I needed to make money....but I also have different morals and values in terms of how I make those dollars. I am not saying I'm better a better person than Mike or whatever...I dunno as i keep saying to me it feels just gross.

What really bugs me, and why I guess I have been more active in this thread than any other thread on here in the 5 or so years I've been here is I'm sure he's not the only one and it's a bummer that this could be the direction this hobby goes (I'm sure people here will reassure me I'm wrong, please do haha) but like every culture or interest, when there are major dollars to make, someone will exploit it. High priced records aren't anything new.

OG Dischord releases for example have always been pretty high (and mike is right, at least from a 7" perspective, punk and really American 80s hardcore really have been leading the way for major prices for OGs)...but it's just funny to me that a guy that has nothing to do with punk and really could careless about it (I know I said that here already) is using that as one of the main reasons we should slab and grade these records. I guess it was bound to happen, but it's wild to hear him basically just say it so brutally...and it really does come off as a guy who does not care about anything but making money...it does not matter who gets stepped on.
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It makes sense to slab valuable records you never plan to listen to because there is no other reason to have it.

I do agree with him that if people want to slab their records it doesn’t actually affect me. Actually coming from the comic world, it might benefit us. Slabbing records will inflate the value of the slabbed records and deflate those that aren’t. So you know good for us listeners.
 
Vinyl also has a Schrodinger’s cat aspect that doesn’t exist in many comics which will be fun for weirdos that buy slabbed records to listen to… once you break the seal, the best a record can be is nm. So if you break open that 10.0 and play it and it’s warped and full of pressing defects your 10.0 $100,000 copy of kind of blue is now a 2.0 and you’ve lost $99,990 dollars. Hahaha. Have fun Elon!
 
Lee Newman said:
Vinyl also has a Schrodinger’s cat aspect that doesn’t exist in many comics which will be fun for weirdos that buy slabbed records to listen to… once you break the seal, the best a record can be is nm. So if you break open that 10.0 and play it and it’s warped and full of pressing defects your 10.0 $100,000 copy of kind of blue is now a 2.0 and you’ve lost $99,990 dollars. Hahaha. Have fun Elon!
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I prefer unsealed records to sealed anyway and if the price drops that much for unsealed, sign me up!
 
Joe Mac said:
If we could eliminate environmentally disastrous single use shrink from this already environmentally disastrous hobby we all love wouldn’t that be something special!
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There are quite a few indie labels I order from that don’t shrink and just include an outer sleeve. They ship the record behind the jacket. It’s not perfect but I’d like to think it’s somewhat better for the environment because there are no seam splits, so people aren’t asking to get sent replacement jackets (on top of not using shrink)
 
MikeH said:
There are quite a few indie labels I order from that don’t shrink and just include an outer sleeve. They ship the record behind the jacket. It’s not perfect but I’d like to think it’s somewhat better for the environment because there are no seam splits, so people aren’t asking to get sent replacement jackets (on top of not using shrink)
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Yeah this is dig, the Warner uk store, now ships pretty much everything in a tight fitting album sized recycled paper bag. It’s great.
 
MikeH said:
There are quite a few indie labels I order from that don’t shrink and just include an outer sleeve. They ship the record behind the jacket. It’s not perfect but I’d like to think it’s somewhat better for the environment because there are no seam splits, so people aren’t asking to get sent replacement jackets (on top of not using shrink)
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yup. It's interesting, certain distributors (mostly bigger ones) sometimes require shrink. I am completely fine with all records not being in shrink
 
Catching up on this and I can also be added to the list of people that disagree with him.

My issue with buying records as an investment is that it often is no longer used for its primary use, listening. Similar to comic books being slabbed, by sealing them you are reducing them to their covers. I saw a video with Steve Aoki where he shared his slabbed trading cards (which I have less of an issue with because you still get to see them in their entirety) but he then pulled out a slabbed record and it was just so dumb.

The whole idea of buying as an investment in the vinyl industry isn't new though, its just that it used to be confined to collectors that kept them within the hobby and, most importantly LISTENED to them. Even now I will buy a second copy of a rare British jazz if I come across a particularly great deal and after testing the 2 I will use one to trade with other collectors. I've built up a solid network of likeminded nerds that buy rare British jazz and its a great way to swap for something that I would otherwise not have the chance to get.
 
They only thing I would slab would be if I got a cool autograph and had a second copy of the record to still spin. Otherwise I agree, play your dang music.

Then again, 50% of vinyl buyers don't even have a turntable so what do I know.
 
NoTrend said:
I hear you. I have made sure in my will that there are people to do what needs to be done with my collection. I would be foolish to say I am going to keep this many until the day I die, but for now, I don't see me getting rid of anything. But i also really don't sell records or flip. I normally give records to friends. Doesn't really matter to me the price (sure, I''m not going to give away a $200 records, but you get the idea).

Not saying that for a pat on the back. It more comes down to I just want to share cool stuff with my friends...I'm also just lazy haha. But a lot of my friends are record collectors, but like myself (for the most part) don't engage with the online VC stuff...more so the VC YouTuber community. Which any time I try to check out that world, just seems super toxic (but I am sure that is with any fandom youtube community I assume)

Yeah, the auction showed up in my feed (I think it's private now) but it was like this 3 hour auction


I am not going to go all Fugazi on the guy and call him out on trying to make a dollar. I get it to some degree, when I owned a record store of course I needed to make money....but I also have different morals and values in terms of how I make those dollars. I am not saying I'm better a better person than Mike or whatever...I dunno as i keep saying to me it feels just gross.

What really bugs me, and why I guess I have been more active in this thread than any other thread on here in the 5 or so years I've been here is I'm sure he's not the only one and it's a bummer that this could be the direction this hobby goes (I'm sure people here will reassure me I'm wrong, please do haha) but like every culture or interest, when there are major dollars to make, someone will exploit it. High priced records aren't anything new.

OG Dischord releases for example have always been pretty high (and mike is right, at least from a 7" perspective, punk and really American 80s hardcore really have been leading the way for major prices for OGs)...but it's just funny to me that a guy that has nothing to do with punk and really could careless about it (I know I said that here already) is using that as one of the main reasons we should slab and grade these records. I guess it was bound to happen, but it's wild to hear him basically just say it so brutally...and it really does come off as a guy who does not care about anything but making money...it does not matter who gets stepped on.
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Well stated. Bravo. Also, nice on the Kaoru Abe avatar.
 
I listened to the rest of the video today and it was such an unpleasant experience.

I was just sat there wondering what the hobby would look like if everyone (or majority) shared his viewpoint and its just so depressing. In my opinion any hobby that puts a main focus on making money isn't a hobby, its a side hustle. I get that Mike has made this his job and I totally respect that, but equally he's completely focused on the idea that records should be seen as a financial object (not to be played if his wish of grading was to become the norm).

Very depressing times if this is what's to come.
 
I don’t necessarily mean to defend Mike here, but he does clearly state that there are different kinds of collectors. It’s not the most unhealthy outlook on going slabs. I mean there are folks on here who buy one to listen and one to keep in the shrink. Or anyone who collects multiple copies of any release… why not have one slabbed if you collect that way?
 
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Lee Newman said:
I mean I don’t necessarily mean to defend Mike here, but he does clearly state that there are different kinds of collectors. It’s not the most unhealthy outlook on going slabs. I mean there are folks on here who buy one to listen and one to keep in the shrink. Or anyone who collects multiple copies of any release… why not have one slabbed if you collect that way?
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I have a brilliant idea. Why don’t we pool our money and buy every Black Puma’s record we can get our hands on, and then destroy them except for one copy of each variant. We will make a fortune.
 
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