Totally Tubular: The Tube Thread

Joe Mac said:
I don’t know if you all saw but Ed put up what it think is a really fair review of the EVO 300 integrated.

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PrimaLuna Evo 300 Integrated Valve Amplifier Review

Review of the PrimaLuna Evo 300 Integrated Valve Amplifier
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Reading down in the comments- Ed says he has 60-72 review slots per year???!!!! That’s not a whole lot of time to spend with a component. I won’t accept a piece for less than 45 days. I’m not saying my method is right or wrong. I’m just saying that I couldn’t crank out a review a week. I wouldn’t even try.

Regarding the ratings, as shipped with the factory tubes, he’s overrated the amplifier. It’s maybe a 7 at best with the factory tubes. Change the tubes to something better (which isn’t hard because the factory tubes suck) and then the amp lives up to the rating. He did mention switching to KT88s, but no mention of upgrading the input tubes. That makes a difference as well. This is part of the appeal of a tube amp for me. You can’t really change the general character of a solid stare amp.

There was also mention of heat. Tube amps run hotter than solid state. Fact. But the PL runs no hotter than any other amp I can think of using EL34/6550/KT88 output tubes. It’s not a space heater. Not even mine with twice the number of output tubes. Nor does it make a noticeable difference on my electric bill, as another (non owner) asserted. Want to see an amp that runs hot and will skyrocket your power bill? Check out
something with a 211 or 845 output tube. Some Line Magnetic amps have output tube temperatures in excess of 3000 degrees Fahrenheit.
 
HiFi Guy said:
Reading down in the comments- Ed says he has 60-72 review slots per year???!!!! That’s not a whole lot of time to spend with a component. I won’t accept a piece for less than 45 days. I’m not saying my method is right or wrong. I’m just saying that I couldn’t crank out a review a week. I wouldn’t even try.

Regarding the ratings, as shipped with the factory tubes, he’s overrated the amplifier. It’s maybe a 7 at best with the factory tubes. Change the tubes to something better (which isn’t hard because the factory tubes suck) and then the amp lives up to the rating. He sis mention switching to KT88s, but no mention of upgrading the input tubes. That makes a difference as well. This is part of the appeal of a tube amp for me. You can’t really change the general character of a solid stare amp.

There was also mention of heat. Tube amps run hotter than solid state. Fact. But the PL runs no hotter than any other amp I can think of using EL34/6550/KT88 output tubes. It’s not a space heater. Not even mine with twice the number of output tubes. Nor does it make a noticeable difference on my electric bill, as another (non owner) asserted. Want to see an amp that runs hot and will skyrocket your power bill? Check out
something with a 211 or 845 output tube. Some Line Magnetic amps have output tube temperatures in excess of 3000 degrees Fahrenheit.
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That’s fair but he has to make a living out of this too. I can’t imagine 10-12 pieces a year is going to do that.

No, in comparison to my quads which ate electricity and I think added a least 2 degrees to Dublin’s overall air temperature it runs cool and is efficient but it’s still likely running hotter and less efficiently than anything solid state if we’re comparing there.

Obviously I’ve changed the output tubes for the GL KT88s I already have but what do you make of the stock input tubes? Are they sufficient for the next year to 18 months (when I’m going to need to change the powers which saw action on the quads too) or is there a big enough jump for me to want to investigate changing them as well.
 
Joe Mac said:
That’s fair but he has to make a living out of this too. I can’t imagine 10-12 pieces a year is going to do that.

No, in comparison to my quads which ate electricity and I think added a least 2 degrees to Dublin’s overall air temperature it runs cool and is efficient but it’s still likely running hotter and less efficiently than anything solid state if we’re comparing there.

Obviously I’ve changed the output tubes for the GL KT88s I already have but what do you make of the stock input tubes? Are they sufficient for the next year to 18 months (when I’m going to need to change the powers which saw action on the quads too) or is there a big enough jump for me to want to investigate changing them as well.
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You could increase the performance by changing the 2 center 12AU7s. The outside 4 aren’t nearly as important. I went with a matched pair of Gold Lions screened for low noise/microphonics with matched triodes. The other 4? The least expensive Electroharmonix.

I think the difference is pretty decent. But if you are happy as is, certainly no reason to change anything.
 
HiFi Guy said:
You could increase the performance by changing the 2 center 12AU7s. The outside 4 aren’t nearly as important. I went with a matched pair of Gold Lions screened for low noise/microphonics with matched triodes. The other 4? The least expensive Electroharmonix.

I think the difference is pretty decent. But if you are happy as is, certainly no reason to change anything.
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I’m not unhappy but input tubes aren’t all that expensive and I’ll get curious 😂

The lads in England that I buy valves from have the EH gold pin for about £15 each and the GL ones are about £25 each so £110 wouldn’t be shocking given how long input tubes last.
 
So I’ve been experimenting with triode for a week to see what I make of it over a longer period of time. Gotta say the longer I have it there the more I prefer it. Sonically this is hitting exactly what I love about tubes, I can’t see myself having the ultra linear setting in play again in all honesty. This amp is utterly mega by the way!
 
Joe Mac said:
So I’ve been experimenting with triode for a week to see what I make of it over a longer period of time. Gotta say the longer I have it there the more I prefer it. Sonically this is hitting exactly what I love about tubes, I can’t see myself having the ultra linear setting in play again in all honesty. This amp is utterly mega by the way!
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That’s really interesting. I’ve switched back and forth between the two, but haven’t used triode over an extended period to let my brain get used to it.
 
Jango said:
That’s really interesting. I’ve switched back and forth between the two, but haven’t used triode over an extended period to let my brain get used to it.
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Yeah switching back and forth it felt like a loudness switch but letting it settle and there are more differences, it is far more similar to what my quad used to sound like but with all its gorgeous technology it doesn’t have the same tendency to raise global air temperature, eat electricity for fun and to over work the power tubes which would inevitably cause one to run away with itself and blow the biasing capacitor.
 
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Joe Mac said:
So I’ve been experimenting with triode for a week to see what I make of it over a longer period of time. Gotta say the longer I have it there the more I prefer it. Sonically this is hitting exactly what I love about tubes, I can’t see myself having the ultra linear setting in play again in all honesty. This amp is utterly mega by the way!
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Interesting. I agree with your comment about the loudness switch. I’m really happy you like it. Mine is here to stay.
 
HiFi Guy said:
Interesting. I agree with your comment about the loudness switch. I’m really happy you like it. Mine is here to stay.
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Yeah this is very likely for me too. I love the balance of how it sounds and how user friendly it is and I can’t see myself ever wanting to spending the kind of money it would take to bump this part of my system in all honesty.

Flicking back and forth at the same volume it felt like a loudness switch but I felt that I noticed a much bigger difference having it at triode and cranking the volume and listening solely in that mode, maybe it’s all in my head but I’m really enjoying it in triode right now!
 
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Joe Mac said:
Yeah this is very likely for me too. I love balance of how it sounds and how user friendly it is and I can’t see myself ever wanting to spending the kind of money it would take to bump this part of my system in all honesty.

Flicking back and forth at the same volume it felt like a loudness switch but I felt that I noticed a much bigger difference having it at triode and cranking the volume and listening solely in that mode, maybe it’s all in my head but I’m really enjoying it in triode right now!
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I doubt it's just in your head. Every amp I've heard that has the ability to switch between triode and any other mode, I always prefer triode. I kind of wish my current amp had enough power to run in triode, but it runs out of gas a little with my current speakers.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah this is very likely for me too. I love the balance of how it sounds and how user friendly it is and I can’t see myself ever wanting to spending the kind of money it would take to bump this part of my system in all honesty.

Flicking back and forth at the same volume it felt like a loudness switch but I felt that I noticed a much bigger difference having it at triode and cranking the volume and listening solely in that mode, maybe it’s all in my head but I’m really enjoying it in triode right now!
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The PL is definitely end game for me. That being said, interesting discussion on the Triode/Linear modes, I'll be honest, I've always looked at it as a loudness thing as well, but maybe it's time to give Triode an extended listen.
 
Ok, I'm a convert. Again, it's not one of those "one better than the other" things, but after extended listening I can say the "sound characteristics" appeal to me much more. Now, that being said, the GL gain tubes are getting to about 150 hours, the KT88's past a couple hundred hours and I adjusted the load on the Hana SL to 800 ohms, so a lot going on.................but I'll take it :)
 
AnthonyI said:
Ok, I'm a convert. Again, it's not one of those "one better than the other" things, but after extended listening I can say the "sound characteristics" appeal to me much more. Now, that being said, the GL gain tubes are getting to about 150 hours, the KT88's past a couple hundred hours and I adjusted the load on the Hana SL to 800 ohms, so a lot going on.................but I'll take it :)
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Yeah the UL certainly doesn’t sound bad by any measure. I just increasingly prefer what the the triode does with the tubes!
 
I probably go through more output tubes (by far) than anyone else here. My system is usually on 12 plus hours a day between me and my wife. I’d been buying Gold Lion KT88s. I recently had another tube go and had read that the Electroharmonix KT88 is the same tube with different silk screening. As they are both made by New Sensor in Russia, it’s not outside the realm of possibility.

At $15 less per tube, I figured I’d give them a shot. Kudos to Tube Depot-I received a shipping notice within 30 minutes of placing my order.
 
HiFi Guy said:
I probably go through more output tubes (by far) than anyone else here. My system is usually on 12 plus hours a day between me and my wife. I’d been buying Gold Lion KT88s. I recently had another tube go and had read that the Electroharmonix KT88 is the same tube with different silk screening. As they are both made by New Sensor in Russia, it’s not outside the realm of possibility.

At $15 less per tube, I figured I’d give them a shot. Kudos to Tube Depot-I received a shipping notice within 30 minutes of placing my order.
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Ive actually just blown a KT88 myself the other day. I’ve been on about 10 hours a day spinning since I got the PL with WFH. Just put the EL34s in while I decide what I want to do next. Will probably pick up a single KT88 to keep a full set but I’m curious to experiment with other tube types too…
 
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