The NBA Thread

[Rip_City]

These Jokic can’t AD takes are hilarious. What did Jokic have tonight? 30 points and 9 assists (despite countless missed open 3’s from his teammates).

Jokic sits alongside Giannas as the best big in the game and is the best offensively. He has done WAY more in his short time in Denver than AD ever did in New Orleans (despite having Jrue). AD is a stunningly elite #2 option who couldn’t raise his team out of the gutter as a #1 and went crying to Lebron. He does nothing to make his teammates better the way Jokic does.

That said, props to him for that clutch shot. And he’s still the 3rd best big in the game. Just find it infuriating to have a Laker fan acting like a guy with the best clutch stats in the NBA over the past two years and who is one Rodney Hood shot away from back to back WCF appearances (despite not having another all-star on the roster) is soft. Hell, the dude’s older brother is an MMA fighter and they wrestle for fun.

The Nuggets problem is a) Milsap fell off a cliff during the hiatus and was already undersized b) Barton is out injured which means we are missing our best pure 2 way player and starting SF who averages 15/5/4 c) Harris is an elite defender but is undersized in this matchup and hasn’t been the same player offensively since the hip injury in late 2018 d) MPJ isn’t ready defensively for this matchup

Basically we lack the size at the 2 and 4 to deal with the Lakers. When you add the fact that Grant is an atrocious rebounder (which doesn’t matter most of the time because we are usually the bigger team and because MPJ is an elite rebounder in situations where Malone trusts him to be on the floor)— the Lakers are sort of a matchup nightmare for us.

The irony of living in LA for 15 years is that my hate for the Lakers runs almost as deep as my love for this city, so it sucks that they are always the team that knocks the Nuggets out of the WCF.

But I’m just trying to to view things positively- Murray is 23, Porter Jr is 21 and Jokic is 25 (and loves Denver). They are all under contract for years to come and have yet to hit their prime. Oh and Bol Bol looks like another 2nd round steal.

I hope you guys are enjoying getting to know Jokic’s game. His final 3 minutes in this one were crazy... Now excuse me while I finish off this 6 pack of Modelo and try and rid my memory of that horrendous Plumlee blunder that cost us the game.

This is also pretty solid analysis.

I watched a condensed G2 earlier today, as I was at work yesterday. To add to your points:

1) I thought that the Nuggets would be favorites to take any contests that end as 1 to 4 point affairs. DEN is usually solid in execution in the closing minutes, whereas LAL has struggled in some of these moments (notably in G1 versus my team this postseason when their role players were awful from the perimeter, and Anthony Davis played uncharacteristically away from the post).

2) The transition defense for DEN was far better in this game (the major reason it was a close game).

3) DEN getting outrebounded by 13 is disastrous, but their options for normalizing this are limited. Seeing as Dwight and McGee are playable in this matchup, LAL can always have a big (or small ball big) for the entire game. Although I like Plumlee, he's not physical enough to go tit for tat with the LAL centers mentioned earlier.

4) I am shocked Porter Jr. played 20 min. He may have been efficient from the floor, but his deficiencies are well documented. I would think Malone would reduce this to 8-10 and transfer those minutes to Dozier and Morris. He's going to get hunted down every time he's on the court and the Nuggets cannot afford that in a life or death G3.

 

[MikeH]

This is also pretty solid analysis.

I watched a condensed G2 earlier today, as I was at work yesterday. To add to your points:

1) I thought that the Nuggets would be favorites to take any contests that end as 1 to 4 point affairs. DEN is usually solid in execution in the closing minutes, whereas LAL has struggled in some of these moments (notably in G1 versus my team this postseason when their role players were awful from the perimeter, and Anthony Davis played uncharacteristically away from the post).

2) The transition defense for DEN was far better in this game (the major reason it was a close game).

3) DEN getting outrebounded by 13 is disastrous, but their options for normalizing this are limited. Seeing as Dwight and McGee are playable in this matchup, LAL can always have a big (or small ball big) for the entire game. Although I like Plumlee, he's not physical enough to go tit for tat with the LAL centers mentioned earlier.

4) I am shocked Porter Jr. played 20 min. He may have been efficient from the floor, but his deficiencies are well documented. I would think Malone would reduce this to 8-10 and transfer those minutes to Dozier and Morris. He's going to get hunted down every time he's on the court and the Nuggets cannot afford that in a life or death G3.

Yea--transition D and also forcing turnovers kept Denver in the game. Some of those TOs were just atrocious Laker mistakes instead of Denver actually forcing them though.

MPJ is a weird one too...he gives you scoring but is hunted on defense by opposing teams. I liked Malone giving some more meaningful minutes to Dozier though (if only he could hit his FTs...). Thought that was a nice adjustment.

It was so disheartening to see Plumlee on that last play just abandon AD. But if you look at the Nuggets roster, not sure who else you have try to guard AD.

Also, the Nuggets just got completely murdered when Murray went to the bench. If my math is right, I believe the Lakers outscored the Nuggets by 18 in the 4 minutes that Murray sat last night.

 

[sahomerrocks]

AD is absolutely the 2nd best player in the series (and left in the playoffs) but also quit on his team in the middle of a season and cowardly refuses to play his optimized position. Having your hand held by Javale and Dwight for 20 mpg is inexcusable. I do think that having another big on the floor against the Nuggets makes sense, though.

 

[sahomerrocks]

At least the LA and Miami fans in this thread give me something to laugh about. I just can't wrap my head around that level of sports arrogance.

At least we haven't encountered any Jazz fans here

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

This is also pretty solid analysis.

I watched a condensed G2 earlier today, as I was at work yesterday. To add to your points:

1) I thought that the Nuggets would be favorites to take any contests that end as 1 to 4 point affairs. DEN is usually solid in execution in the closing minutes, whereas LAL has struggled in some of these moments (notably in G1 versus my team this postseason when their role players were awful from the perimeter, and Anthony Davis played uncharacteristically away from the post).

2) The transition defense for DEN was far better in this game (the major reason it was a close game).

3) DEN getting outrebounded by 13 is disastrous, but their options for normalizing this are limited. Seeing as Dwight and McGee are playable in this matchup, LAL can always have a big (or small ball big) for the entire game. Although I like Plumlee, he's not physical enough to go tit for tat with the LAL centers mentioned earlier.

4) I am shocked Porter Jr. played 20 min. He may have been efficient from the floor, but his deficiencies are well documented. I would think Malone would reduce this to 8-10 and transfer those minutes to Dozier and Morris. He's going to get hunted down every time he's on the court and the Nuggets cannot afford that in a life or death G3.

1) We have been the clutchest team in the NBA for 2 years, but I’m not willing to doubt the execution of a team with Lebron in the final two minutes of a playoff game

2) Agreed. We also did a good job of clogging the paint

3) Again, agree. We were 4th in rebounding this season but that was before Sap came back looking like a shell of his former self. And Grant is the worst rebounding big I’ve ever seen. Lakers were also #1

4) Hard disagree on this one. Despite his noted struggles on D, Porter has gotten better defensively nearly every game. More importantly he has still been a positive player (+10 per 100 minutes in the Clippers series and closed several games) because he provides elite rebounding, size and ample floor spacing. In contrast, teams don’t even bother to guard Craig and the Lakers are choosing not to guard Harris because his shot is so sporadic since the injuries piled up.

Edit: @Rip_City I forgot to mention-- a) #4 is why we miss Barton so much and b) Malone is also thinking long term. He knows it's important to get MPJ these reps, to keep him engaged and to build his confidence. Because if he reaches his ceiling than we have a home grown big 3

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

"I truthfully do not know a single other nba fan that's not a lakers fan that thinks jokic is better then ad.. thats homerism in its finest if you think it's clear cut especially"

The average fan doesn't know much about the game other than what there local color guy tells them. And the local radio in LA is particularly trash. It's also worth noting that a lot of the national guys that work on the TV side (ala Windhorst) barely watch small market teams.

But the consensus among most analysts that know their shit is that both Jokic and AD are top 10 players. The growing consensus after both guys playoff runs (and this is the 2nd of Jokic's such runs) is that they may be closer to top 5 than not. There are people who think Jokic is better and people who think that AD is better. Usually, the argument in favor of Jokic revolves around the fact that he is the only big in the game capable of being a team's engine on offense. People that prefer AD, think that the gap in their offense is more than made up by the gap between their defense.

Your blatant disrespect and hyperbolic nonsense caused me to talk a bit of shit without the nuance that I would normally engage in. But the reality, is that I fall into the former camp while also thinking both players are in the same tier. If we presume KD comes back 90-95% of his former self and finds a way to adapt his game effectively, my personal ranking would be something like:

Tier 1:
1) Lebron
2) Curry
3) Kawhi
4) KD

Tier 2:
5) Giannias
6) Jokic
7) AD

Tier 3:
8) Luka
9) Harden
10) Dame

Tier 4:
11) Butler
12) Tatum
13) Embid

After which is gets super fuzzy with a bunch of young players on the up that we need more data on (Mitchell, Booker, Murray, ext) and older players that are aging or have question marks (Chris Paul, Paul George, Karl Towns, Rudy Gobert). And it's easy to quibble about this stuff (for example, I think Luka will be in tier 2 next year + Harden should probably be in Tier 2 as well but I've grown to question whether the style of play he prefers can win in the playoffs).

Anyways, I find it funny that you specifically mention Dirk at one point. Because A) Dirk won a title while single handedly carrying a team through the postseason and B) Dirk has been one of the main comps Nuggets fans have used for years in regards to Jokic. Because of his insane touch and the way he can blast teams in the pick in pop or via posting up. And also because it took several years for Dirk to become comfortable in looking for his shot. Zach Lowe actually dedicated his opening monologue to how Jokic is the heir to Dirk's legacy last week.

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So basically- this boils down to the old school argument of Garnett versus Dirk. And there are PLENTY of people who would take Garnett in that conversation. But here's the other part of it, Jokic's closest contemporary is Nowitzski IF Dirk also had the passing vision, IQ and instincts of Steve Nash. Yes, his playmaking is that elite.

For the record his playoff averages heading into the Lakers series (28 games) are 25.5/11.5/7 on 52/43/83.

And the Nuggets progression with Jokic as a starter:

16/17: Took over as starting Center for Nurk in early January of his sophomore year. The team was more than 10 games under .500 and had been a disaster with Nurkic. After he entered the starting lineup we had the #1 offense in the NBA for the rest of the year and the Nuggets finished 1 game behind the Blazers for the 8 seed at 40-42.

The 2nd best player was an often injured, no longer capable of playing D Gallo who averaged 18ppg. The 3rd best player on the team was a 23 year old Gary Harris who averaged 15 ppg on elite efficiency but missed 30ish games. The 4th best player was a 24 (?) year old Will Barton who was playing off the bench as 6th man and wildly sporadic in his first real playing time as a pro. Murray was rookie playing through two sports hernias, the starting PG was a one-year-away from retirement Jameer Nelson and the rest of the roster was trash.

17/18: We let Gallo walk and signed Milsap. Team was in line to make the playoffs easily until Milsap fucked up his wrist and missed over half of the season. He only played 37 games and was not the same player upon returning on the offensive end. Despite that, we finished 46-36-- one of the best records to ever miss the playoffs. 2nd best player on the team was Milsap who missed over half the year and was outside of his prime. 3rd best player was 24 year old Gary Harris (age who averaged 17.5 on elite splits). 4th best player was Barton. 5th a 20 year old Murray who averaged 16.7 but couldn't make an entry pass to save his life and was a turnstile on D.

18/19: Everything came together and we finished 54-28 despite Will Barton missing pretty much the entire season, Gary getting hurt in December and ceasing to ever be the same player and Paul Milsap again missing substantial time. We did so because Jokic had taken another leap and Murray improved as a playmaker. But there was no other all-star on the team and 3 of our 5 best players missed extensive time. We came within a game of the WCF and were the youngest 2 seed in the history of the NBA.

19/20: Murray takes a leap forward and Barton returns and is our 3rd best player all year (until getting hurt at the start of the bubble). Sap is a shell of his former self (especially come bubble) as is Gary Harris (on the offensive end). We are now in the WCF.

In contrast, the Pelicans were bottom feeders for all but one or two years of AD's time in New Orleans even though he had an all-star level player alongside him in Jrue. Like, it's one thing to be barely missing the playoffs as a .500ish team with serious roster flaws-- but that's not what AD was doing. His teams won less than 34 games 5 out of the 7 seasons Davis was a Pelican.

 

[bettim84]

Lakers fans are on another level of entitlement and homerism. There’s a reason why they are probably the most insufferable fan base in all of sports (next to Pats fans). You have been going on and on about total domination yet the Lakers had to win by a buzzer beater.

If I’m building a team from scratch, I’d take Jokic 10/10 times. He’s a better overall player and makes his teammates better. AD is the better scorer but that doesn’t really matter since it doesn’t always translate to wins.

Yeah, I’m amazed that even in the happiest place in the internet (N&G) Lakers fans are insufferable. And I totally agree with your Jokic take; his impact as a creator from the center position is unparalleled in the league. Davis is a fantastic player (probably to 10 currently) but I’d rank Jokic just a tad higher.

But the consensus among most analysts that know their shit is that both Jokic and AD are top 10 players. The growing consensus after both guys playoff runs (and this is the 2nd of Jokic's such runs) is that they may be closer to top 5 than not. There are people who think Jokic is better and people who think that AD is better. Usually, the argument in favor of Jokic revolves around the fact that he is the only big in the game capable of being a team's engine on offense. People that prefer AD, think that the gap in their offense is more than made up by the gap between their defense.

Your blatant disrespect and hyperbolic nonsense caused me to talk a bit of shit without the nuance that I would normally engage in. But the reality, is that I fall into the former camp while also thinking both players are in the same tier. If we presume KD comes back 90-95% of his former self and finds a way to adapt his game effectively, my personal ranking would be something like:

Tier 1:
1) Lebron
2) Curry
3) Kawhi
4) KD

Tier 2:
5) Giannias
6) Jokic
7) AD

Tier 3:
8) Luka
9) Harden
10) Dame

Tier 4:
11) Butler
12) Tatum
13) Embid

After which is gets super fuzzy with a bunch of young players on the up that we need more data on (Mitchell, Booker, Murray, ext) and older players that are aging or have question marks (Chris Paul, Paul George, Karl Towns, Rudy Gobert). And it's easy to quibble about this stuff (for example, I think Luka will be in tier 2 next year + Harden should probably be in Tier 2 as well but I've grown to question whether the style of play he prefers can win in the playoffs).

Anyways, I find it funny that you specifically mention Dirk at one point. Because A) Dirk won a title while single handedly carrying a team through the postseason and B) Dirk has been one of the main comps Nuggets fans have used for years in regards to Jokic. Because of his insane touch and the way he can blast teams in the pick in pop or via posting up. And also because it took several years for Dirk to become comfortable in looking for his shot. Zach Lowe actually dedicated his opening monologue to how Jokic is the heir to Dirk's legacy last week.

I quite like the Dirk v Garnett comparison. Both all-timers but I always gave Dirk the slight edge, so it’s probably not surprising that I rank Jokic a tad above Davis.

As for your tiers we can all quibble about it all day, but I agree with your top 4 (though I’d have KD ahead of Kawhi (assuming health) and maybe even Curry). I’d have Luka firmly in tier 2 and probably would make no distinction between tiers 3 and 4. I do think Booker has the potential to crash this list but he needs to make noise in the playoffs first (a good start would be to make the playoffs). And I would probably bump Embiid down to the ”question mark” tier.

Last point about Dirk: I do think it’s a bit unfair to say that he “single handedly” carried the Mavs to the title. That was more a “perfect ensemble” team like my 2004 Pistons or the 2015 Warriors. There is no question he was the sole superstar (like Curry) but Chandler, Kidd, Terry, and even Barea and Peja were crucial for their playoff success (as were, well, 7-8 Warriors players that year, all the way down to my boy Leandro “We Are Championship” Barbosa). The 2004 Pistons were more extreme in that people don't even agree on who their best player was (it was Billups). Incidentally those were the 3 championship runs that have given me the most joy over the past 20 years. We’re due for another fun, random champ (maybe the Heat?).

 

[MikeH]

Last point about Dirk: I do think it’s a bit unfair to say that he “single handedly” carried the Mavs to the title. That was more a “perfect ensemble” team like my 2004 Pistons or the 2015 Warriors. There is no question he was the sole superstar (like Curry) but Chandler, Kidd, Terry, and even Barea and Peja were crucial for their playoff success (as were, well, 7-8 Warriors players that year, all the way down to my boy Leandro “We Are Championship” Barbosa). The 2004 Pistons were more extreme in that people don't even agree on who their best player was (it was Billups). Incidentally those were the 3 championship runs that have given me the most joy over the past 20 years. We’re due for another fun, random champ (maybe the Heat?).

That Pistons team was so fun as was the Mavs squad. I was a huge Sheed and Ben Wallace fan growing up. The Raps title last year was sort of similar to me (at least to the Mavs team) in that they had one true star and a really great ensemble cast. The Heat this year are in a similar boat. I always love rooting for underdogs in the playoffs especially since I'm a Knicks fan and we never make the playoffs so I don't have to worry about that haha. It's cool to think that a team with one star and a really great supporting cast still has a shot at winning a championship when most teams stars need to team up with multiple other stars to try to win championships. The whole "ringz erneh" argument has made guys like KD ring chase, which in turn makes fans hate them and try to discount any rings they do win.

 

[Woob_woob]

And I would probably bump Embiid down to the ”question mark” tier.

As a sixers fan I hate to agree with this point but i do. He has all the potential to be the best center in the league but he never seems to reach it.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Yeah, I’m amazed that even in the happiest place in the internet (N&G) Lakers fans are insufferable. And I totally agree with your Jokic take; his impact as a creator from the center position is unparalleled in the league. Davis is a fantastic player (probably to 10 currently) but I’d rank Jokic just a tad higher.



I quite like the Dirk v Garnett comparison. Both all-timers but I always gave Dirk the slight edge, so it’s probably not surprising that I rank Jokic a tad above Davis.

As for your tiers we can all quibble about it all day, but I agree with your top 4 (though I’d have KD ahead of Kawhi (assuming health) and maybe even Curry). I’d have Luka firmly in tier 2 and probably would make no distinction between tiers 3 and 4. I do think Booker has the potential to crash this list but he needs to make noise in the playoffs first (a good start would be to make the playoffs). And I would probably bump Embiid down to the ”question mark” tier.

Last point about Dirk: I do think it’s a bit unfair to say that he “single handedly” carried the Mavs to the title. That was more a “perfect ensemble” team like my 2004 Pistons or the 2015 Warriors. There is no question he was the sole superstar (like Curry) but Chandler, Kidd, Terry, and even Barea and Peja were crucial for their playoff success (as were, well, 7-8 Warriors players that year, all the way down to my boy Leandro “We Are Championship” Barbosa). The 2004 Pistons were more extreme in that people don't even agree on who their best player was (it was Billups). Incidentally those were the 3 championship runs that have given me the most joy over the past 20 years. We’re due for another fun, random champ (maybe the Heat?).

I too consider that Mavs team and that Pistons team to be probably my favorite NBA champions of the past 20ish years though I’d add the 2014 Spurs because the way they played the game was so beautiful. (My favorite non-Nugget teams of all-time are the Webber era Kings and Nash era Spurs).

I’d like to say I enjoyed the 2015 Warriors but I was too bitter about Iggy being the 2nd star to leave the Nuggets in a 3 year span (and the fact that he was plotting his leave during our playoff series with them). To this day that he ranks alongside Irving and Dwight as my least favorite NBA players (in part because of his comments about not letting his daughter hoop out of fear she’ll become a lesbian).

I also agree the Mavs were an ensemble perfectly around Dirk- with the blend of elite defenders and playmakers. I just remember how supernova Dirk went from the very beginning of round 1. Like he was on a mission for the whole world to see.

Hopefully we get a couple more years of this super team free NBA. Cause it’s a lot of fun.

 

[MikeH]

I too consider that Mavs team and that Pistons team to be probably my favorite NBA champions of the past 20ish years though I’d add the 2014 Spurs because the way they played the game was so beautiful. (My favorite non-Nugget teams of all-time are the Webber era Kings and Nash era Spurs).

I’d like to say I enjoyed the 2015 Warriors but I was too bitter about Iggy being the 2nd star to leave the Nuggets in a 3 year span (and the fact that he was plotting his leave during our playoff series with them). To this day that he ranks alongside Irving and Dwight as my least favorite NBA players (in part because of his comments about not letting his daughter hoop out of fear she’ll become a lesbian).

I also agree the Mavs were an ensemble perfectly around Dirk- with the blend of elite defenders and playmakers. I just remember how supernova Dirk went from the very beginning of round 1. Like he was on a mission for the whole world to see.

Hopefully we get a couple more years of this super team free NBA. Cause it’s a lot of fun.

Lots of star duos now which is kinda fun if they can all stay healthy. Steph + Klay (+ Dray), KD + Kyrie, Kawhi and PG, Jokic + Murray, Dame + CJ...I do think that not having true home court advantage in the bubble has been a huge factor in some of these games. Next year is gonna be really interesting from a league/team perspective with so many coaches getting fired or moving around. I also bet that we see some big trades this offseason with some new FOs coming in...

 

[bettim84]

I’d add the 2014 Spurs because the way they played the game was so beautiful.

Yes, that team was amazing. Especially with the context of coming back from the gut-punch Ray Allen shot the year before.

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

As a sixers fan I hate to agree with this point but i do. He has all the potential to be the best center in the league but he never seems to reach it.

That was how I felt about Dwight Howard in his magic days. Everything about him (especially in the pre Warriors era) said he should be averaging 30/20/5 a game but he could never put it together. I think Embiid should be a dominating force but still hasn’t put it all together for long stretches.

 

[Mather]

How bout those Raps tho.

 

[sahomerrocks]

That was how I felt about Dwight Howard in his magic days. Everything about him (especially in the pre Warriors era) said he should be averaging 30/20/5 a game but he could never put it together. I think Embiid should be a dominating force but still hasn’t put it all together for long stretches.

Magic Dwight had a team built designed to optimize all of his strengths. The Sixers front office has surrounded Embiid with another C and 3 Fs. The same front office that still employs the friends of a failson GM who was caught anonymously trashing Embiid on twitter.

 

[MikeH]

Magic Dwight had a team built designed to optimize all of his strengths. The Sixers front office has surrounded Embiid with another C and 3 Fs. The same front office that still employs the friends of a failson GM who was caught anonymously trashing Embiid on twitter.

Hinkie being forced out and the following Sixers FO moves may be one of the greatest what ifs in this current NBA generation...they were so well set up and made wrong moves at every turn after Hinkie was gone.

 

[MikeH]

What a game from the Nuggets. Shout out Jeremi Grant. Got scared there for a bit in the 4th but good composure from the Nuggets. Hoping they can start off next game hungry too. Insane that AD only had 2 rebounds in 43 minutes...

 

[Rip_City]

Watched the second half live after eating dinner and then viewed a condensed game. Not sure if anyone cares to read, but some of my thoughts/analysis on G3:

1) DEN stars. DEN got 50 out of Jokic/Murray on 61/45/64 splits, it's what you want to see. Murray had the flagrant 1 (his only PF) in the second half but didn't let it affect his play. He came through being effective as a scorer + distributor in the waning minutes sans first half of Q4. Jokic with an all-around solid game, six turnovers notwithstanding.

2) LAL stars. Despite Barkley’s postgame thoughts, I thought LeBron played OK, but certainly not great. LBJ not driving inside had a lot to do with DEN once again packing the paint and to double when Davis posts up like in G2. His lone 2 FT attempts from the aforementioned flagrant read to me as a passive game from him. Davis, depending on how one looks at it, was a non-factor. He wasn't nearly aggressive enough and probably should've demanded the ball more often. He was challenged from the perimeter and ultimately resulted in wasted possessions. His scoring was lower than one would expect, and putting the ball on the floor on guys like Millsap/Morris/Grant away from the cup is obviously not going to work. Him playing the 5 more frequently would do wonders for LAL.

3) LAL C play. If I were Vogel, I cut all of McGee’s minutes and split them between Dwight and Markieff; he is a redundant depth piece getting outsmarted far too often even in his limited court time. He’s no longer a part of GSW where he was effective in limited minutes alongside an otherwise starting lineup of All-NBA teammates being excellent distributors to effortlessly be fed in the post and subsequently hidden on the other end. As for Dwight, he is the LAL rotation player that is instrumental in this matchup. More importantly, he needs to stop playing reckless and instead play smarter. LAL can live with him not scoring but they irrefutably cannot have him soak up dumb fouls that further exacerbate the advantage that the (usual) FT attempts and make% that their opposition usually has on them. He also had Crisco hands on at least two rebound opportunities that went the other way for a bucket by DEN. AD/Dwight/McGee/Markieff being collectively outrebounded by Murray is unforgivable.

4) DEN role players/bench. I wouldn't expect Grant to follow up his sterling performance in G3 with a similar effort later in this series, although his defense on Davis was pretty impressive (still a horrific rebounder, though). Rather shocking to see that DEN lost the battle of bench points but winning the ballgame. Not too surprising that Plumlee saw a drop in minutes, and inevitably will be on the chopping block for shortening the rotation. DEN will need to have some third option (likely MPJ, assuming Malone trusts him game to game) drop 17-20 every game from here on, as I would take LBJ/AD over Jokic/Murray any day of the week if you isolate all other variables. Millsap isn't making much of an impact and I expect that trend to continue.

5) Other notes. LAL being outrebounded 25-43 shouldn't happen in this matchup, quite an outlier. Both teams shot lights out from the field, but dismal 3PT shooting from LAL reared its head here, and their shooters are still not being respected all that much. The flip side in the late game, however, is that switching to the zone defense confused DEN for the time they ran it...but this might be unsustainable as Jokic is the kind of player that would punish them for using it. LBJ/AD both looked gassed in Q4, I don't think either should be tasked of guarding Jokic for extended time.

 

[MikeH]

Watched the second half live after eating dinner and then viewed a condensed game. Not sure if anyone cares to read, but some of my thoughts/analysis on G3:

1) DEN stars. DEN got 50 out of Jokic/Murray on 61/45/64 splits, it's what you want to see. Murray had the flagrant 1 (his only PF) in the second half but didn't let it affect his play. He came through being effective as a scorer + distributor in the waning minutes sans first half of Q4. Jokic with an all-around solid game, six turnovers notwithstanding.

2) LAL stars. Despite Barkley’s postgame thoughts, I thought LeBron played OK, but certainly not great. LBJ not driving inside had a lot to do with DEN once again packing the paint and to double when Davis posts up like in G2. His lone 2 FT attempts from the aforementioned flagrant read to me as a passive game from him. Davis, depending on how one looks at it, was a non-factor. He wasn't nearly aggressive enough and probably should've demanded the ball more often. He was challenged from the perimeter and ultimately resulted in wasted possessions. His scoring was lower than one would expect, and putting the ball on the floor on guys like Millsap/Morris/Grant away from the cup is obviously not going to work. Him playing the 5 more frequently would do wonders for LAL.

3) LAL C play. If I were Vogel, I cut all of McGee’s minutes and split them between Dwight and Markieff; he is a redundant depth piece getting outsmarted far too often even in his limited court time. He’s no longer a part of GSW where he was effective in limited minutes alongside an otherwise starting lineup of All-NBA teammates being excellent distributors to effortlessly be fed in the post and subsequently hidden on the other end. As for Dwight, he is the LAL rotation player that is instrumental in this matchup. More importantly, he needs to stop playing reckless and instead play smarter. LAL can live with him not scoring but they irrefutably cannot have him soak up dumb fouls that further exacerbate the advantage that the (usual) FT attempts and make% that their opposition usually has on them. He also had Crisco hands on at least two rebound opportunities that went the other way for a bucket by DEN. AD/Dwight/McGee/Markieff being collectively outrebounded by Murray is unforgivable.

4) DEN role players/bench. I wouldn't expect Grant to follow up his sterling performance in G3 with a similar effort later in this series, although his defense on Davis was pretty impressive (still a horrific rebounder, though). Rather shocking to see that DEN lost the battle of bench points but winning the ballgame. Not too surprising that Plumlee saw a drop in minutes, and inevitably will be on the chopping block for shortening the rotation. DEN will need to have some third option (likely MPJ, assuming Malone trusts him game to game) drop 17-20 every game from here on, as I would take LBJ/AD over Jokic/Murray any day of the week if you isolate all other variables. Millsap isn't making much of an impact and I expect that trend to continue.

5) Other notes. LAL being outrebounded 25-43 shouldn't happen in this matchup, quite an outlier. Both teams shot lights out from the field, but dismal 3PT shooting from LAL reared its head here, and their shooters are still not being respected all that much. The flip side in the late game, however, is that switching to the zone defense confused DEN for the time they ran it...but this might be unsustainable as Jokic is the kind of player that would punish them for using it. LBJ/AD both looked gassed in Q4, I don't think either should be tasked of guarding Jokic for extended time.

Solid thoughts. Denver’s role players offense was the huge X factor last night. If Monte Morris and Grant are giving you 40 points you’re golden. There was a point last night where the lakers DOUBLE TEAMED JERAMI GRANT. If you’re having to do that, you’re screwed.

the lakers comeback was also greatly helped by some awful reffing. A few of those Rondo steals were very clearly fouls. I have no idea what those late whistles were when fouls were called only after the ball didn’t go in (that foul call for Kuz was crazy late). That AD 3 pointer foul was also an insane call and should have been a no call or an offensive foul. Kudos to the Lakers though for ratcheting up the defense. Got scared for a bit there but then when I saw AD not even able to jog up the floor, I figured the Nuggets might be safe.

kuz was also seeming to do his best clueless JR Smith impression last night. Really bad turnovers and looked out of his element late with no situational awareness. The hesitation and then clanking of that three during the run killed some momentum for the Lakers. I also think they played AD too much and he played too far away from the basket. It’s insane he didn’t get a rebound until the 4th quarter.

I agree with you on McGee needing to get his minutes cut but Dwight is also just out of control. Nuggets being in the bonus in the 3rd with 9 minutes left or something really hurt them too...

great game though. The fun thing about this series is that it’s one of those series where I don’t know that any lead is safe for either team.

 

[sahomerrocks]

Hinkie being forced out and the following Sixers FO moves may be one of the greatest what ifs in this current NBA generation...they were so well set up and made wrong moves at every turn after Hinkie was gone.

After installing their league-plant-advisor's son without conducting any real interviews after Hinkie's resignation they were given an opportunity at a clean slate because, once again, THE GM WAS CAUGHT TRASHING THEIR STAR PLAYERS AND REVEALING SENSITIVE MEDICAL INFORMATION ON TWITTER. Left with the most desirable front office position in years (Embiid, Simmons, max cap space, top 10 pick, their own 1st rounders, too many 2nd rd picks to list, etc), they kept everyone their league-plant-advisor's son hired and installed a patsy GM two years out of a playing career with one year of front office experience in the G League. No one should take them seriously until they hire a serious person to be in charge.