The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

It must be a day for SOtMs as mine has mysteriously stopped working today. Not terribly happy about that.

On a more positive note, I'm starting the business of sorting my next house and with that, I'm starting to look at my next set of test equipment. This evening, I'm a very long way into the dark side indeed.

Photo 26-07-2019, 21 09 25.jpg

This should be topped by my SOtM but the Lindemann is standing in nicely. This is a Roon driven combo of the aforementioned Lindemann Limetree Bridge streaming transport running into a Chord Electronics MScaler and Hugo TT2. It is, frankly ridiculous in technical terms. The original CD DAC, the Philips TDA1451, used 28 tapped output filters to generate something approaching an analogue soundwave. The TT2 uses... a million to do the same thing. It's got a Xilinx field programmable gate array with custom code to achieve this. In this case, the signal it is receiving has been through the Mscaler which takes a 16/44,1 input and uses another million tap, time aligned processing system to turn it into a sprightly 24/705.6. Considering the sheer amount of processing horsepower at work, the most incredible thing is how natural it sounds. It is, by some margin, the best digital front end I've ever used.

Photo 26-07-2019, 21 09 56.jpg
 
On the positive after a full fortnight of work I’m seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...

I now have all my digital music in roon and tagged and sorted. I only have a list of about 20 albums that I don’t have as files or in Qobuz that I’ll be trying to obtain...

Been playing CDs and streaming using what was in roon through my little pi while I worked. Looking forward to finally getting to spin some vinyl again over the weekend!
 
Ed Selley said:
It must be a day for SOtMs as mine has mysteriously stopped working today. Not terribly happy about that.

On a more positive note, I'm starting the business of sorting my next house and with that, I'm starting to look at my next set of test equipment. This evening, I'm a very long way into the dark side indeed.

View attachment 12367

This should be topped by my SOtM but the Lindemann is standing in nicely. This is a Roon driven combo of the aforementioned Lindemann Limetree Bridge streaming transport running into a Chord Electronics MScaler and Hugo TT2. It is, frankly ridiculous in technical terms. The original CD DAC, the Philips TDA1451, used 28 tapped output filters to generate something approaching an analogue soundwave. The TT2 uses... a million to do the same thing. It's got a Xilinx field programmable gate array with custom code to achieve this. In this case, the signal it is receiving has been through the Mscaler which takes a 16/44,1 input and uses another million tap, time aligned processing system to turn it into a sprightly 24/705.6. Considering the sheer amount of processing horsepower at work, the most incredible thing is how natural it sounds. It is, by some margin, the best digital front end I've ever used.

View attachment 12369
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In the world of hypotheticals, is the MScaler and Hugo TT2 combo supposed to be better than, equal to, or maybe just different from the Dave? That's the one thing I don't understand on the price point of that combo. But I do like that it allows someone it upgrade into the combo in steps. I've never had the pleasure of hearing these, but I've heard they do live up to the hype.
 
Question for @Ed Selley and those more experienced in the digital realm than I am:
I, perhaps mistakenly, always held the notion that streaming lagged behind in sound quality over CDs. With technological monsters such as those three posts up, is that still the case?

With the absurd processing power of electronics today in general, I can't imagine even the largest media files would create any issue with streaming bandwidth and whatever complex algorithms are used in DACs over reading actual CDs/physical media. Am I missing something fundamental here?
 
wooha said:
Question for @Ed Selley and those more experienced in the digital realm than I am:
I, perhaps mistakenly, always held the notion that streaming lagged behind in sound quality over CDs. With technological monsters such as those three posts up, is that still the case?

With the absurd processing power of electronics today in general, I can't imagine even the largest media files would create any issue with streaming bandwidth and whatever complex algorithms are used in DACs over reading actual CDs/physical media. Am I missing something fundamental here?
Click to expand...

This is slightly complicated. All things being equal ( I.e. with devices that are able to stream and play CDs at the same time) playing the CD and playing an exact WAV rip of the same CD, sound the same. Some of the more lurid ends of the American Hi-Fi press will state that there are timing errors that cannot be overcome in streaming. This ignores that tracking an optical pit in a wildly spinning plastic disc is also going to induce the same errors. In real-world conditions, the differences are so small as to be irrelevant. Furthermore, compact disc is limited to 16 bits 44.1kHz, Even with SACD you are limited to 88.2kHz (or 2.8MHz 1 bit in true native DSD). My fairly modest streaming library has files that greatly exceed this level. The potential for higher performance from streaming is increasingly accessible especially via streaming services. After nearly a decade using various streaming platforms I have no difficulty in feeling that the performances is equal and many some cases superior to CD platforms at the same price.

It is hard to ignore the convenience angle too. At present in my post divorce accommodation half of my record collection has made it with me to the flat. My CD collection is in its entirety stored 12 miles from where I live and thanks to it being ripped on a NAS drive it has all made it here with no issues in terms of storage or organisation. Even with a vast hypothetical lottery winning budget my digital front-end would remain a streaming based one.
 
displayname said:
In the world of hypotheticals, is the MScaler and Hugo TT2 combo supposed to be better than, equal to, or maybe just different from the Dave? That's the one thing I don't understand on the price point of that combo. But I do like that it allows someone it upgrade into the combo in steps. I've never had the pleasure of hearing these, but I've heard they do live up to the hype.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I missed this.

On its own, a DAVE is better than a TT2 but the performance gap is rather smaller than you might expect. Once you add the M scaler to TT2, the combination is able to offer a higher level of performance than DAVE on its own. Naturally, adding the M scaler to DAVE will result in higher performance still but at a basic level the gap between the TT2 and the Dave is sufficiently small that the combination of TT2 and M scaler is probably the one to go for.
 
Ed Selley said:
Sorry, I missed this.

On its own, a DAVE is better than a TT2 but the performance gap is rather smaller than you might expect. Once you add the M scaler to TT2, the combination is able to offer a higher level of performance than DAVE on its own. Naturally, adding the M scaler to DAVE will result in higher performance still but at a basic level the gap between the TT2 and the Dave is sufficiently small that the combination of TT2 and M scaler is probably the one to go for.
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Good to know, thanks as always Ed! I don't know why I didn't even think of the idea of adding an M Scaler to the Dave. Not that I'd be doing any of this, but it's good info to know. Hope you're enjoying it!
 
Ed Selley said:
This is slightly complicated. All things being equal ( I.e. with devices that are able to stream and play CDs at the same time) playing the CD and playing an exact WAV rip of the same CD, sound the same. Some of the more lurid ends of the American Hi-Fi press will state that there are timing errors that cannot be overcome in streaming. This ignores that tracking an optical pit in a wildly spinning plastic disc is also going to induce the same errors. In real-world conditions, the differences are so small as to be irrelevant. Furthermore, compact disc is limited to 16 bits 44.1kHz, Even with SACD you are limited to 88.2kHz (or 2.8MHz 1 bit in true native DSD). My fairly modest streaming library has files that greatly exceed this level. The potential for higher performance from streaming is increasingly accessible especially via streaming services. After nearly a decade using various streaming platforms I have no difficulty in feeling that the performances is equal and many some cases superior to CD platforms at the same price.

It is hard to ignore the convenience angle too. At present in my post divorce accommodation half of my record collection has made it with me to the flat. My CD collection is in its entirety stored 12 miles from where I live and thanks to it being ripped on a NAS drive it has all made it here with no issues in terms of storage or organisation. Even with a vast hypothetical lottery winning budget my digital front-end would remain a streaming based one.
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That makes complete sense and clears up my question quite nicely! Thanks as always.

Hard to imagine the acceleration of streaming innovation slowing down any time soon as well.
 
I've still been so satisfied with my vinyl chain, that I find myself looking at the digital front end more often. I've recently started digging to the Denafrips lineup. The Ares and the Terminator get all the press, but I think I'd be most interested in the Pontus if I was going to seriously consider it.

Has anyone had a chance to hear any of the Denafrips stuff?
 
displayname said:
I've still been so satisfied with my vinyl chain, that I find myself looking at the digital front end more often. I've recently started digging to the Denafrips lineup. The Ares and the Terminator get all the press, but I think I'd be most interested in the Pontus if I was going to seriously consider it.

Has anyone had a chance to hear any of the Denafrips stuff?
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Never even heard of it! Looks really interesting though...I think if i ever were to upgrade from my Aries Mini, I'd give that a look.
 
MikeH said:
Never even heard of it! Looks really interesting though...I think if i ever were to upgrade from my Aries Mini, I'd give that a look.
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Built in China and sold direct via a distributor in Sinagpore. They are making a big splash in the "bang for the buck" discussions at every price point. Any option would be a BIG change up from the Aries Mini DAC. They are all R2R designs, and the true balanced dual mono on all the options above the Ares. I'm thinking it would be cool to have a dual mono phono and a dual mono DAC down the line.
 
displayname said:
Built in China and sold direct via a distributor in Sinagpore. They are making a big splash in the "bang for the buck" at every price point. Any option would be a BIG change up from the Aries Mini DAC. They are all R2R designs, and the true balanced dual mono on all the options above the Ares. I'm thinking it would be cool to have a dual mono phono and a dual mono DAC down the line.
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I mean...I wouldn't say EVERY price point. But yea they do look nice. I'll eventually upgrade the Aries DAC but don't have $800+ USD to drop on a DAC at the moment haha. That's almost twice as much as I paid for the Aries + Linear Supply. I know it will benefit from an upgrade at some point though! The upgrade path is one of the main reasons why I went with the Aries.
 
MikeH said:
I mean...I wouldn't say EVERY price point. But yea they do look nice. I'll eventually upgrade the Aries DAC but don't have $800+ USD to drop on a DAC at the moment haha. That's almost twice as much as I paid for the Aries + Linear Supply. I know it will benefit from an upgrade at some point though! The upgrade path is one of the main reasons why I went with the Aries.
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Oh, I didn't say every price point was affordable, haha. I don't care how much of a "bang for the buck" the $4.5K Terminator is, that's still a very expensive DAC. But for people comparing it to DACs like the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC or dCS options... then sure. But I'm not shopping in that realm.
 
Finally giving Qobuz a try. 30 day trial and it’s quite nice...not sure I want another monthly subscription cost though! I signed up because an album I wanted to listen to and can’t find anywhere else other than CD came up in a google search saying it was on Qobuz but when I signed up, the album isn’t there...must be a rights issue...but listening to a bunch of different genres on it through my Aries mini and it sounds really good.
 
MikeH said:
Finally giving Qobuz a try. 30 day trial and it’s quite nice...not sure I want another monthly subscription cost though! I signed up because an album I wanted to listen to and can’t find anywhere else other than CD came up in a google search saying it was on Qobuz but when I signed up, the album isn’t there...must be a rights issue...but listening to a bunch of different genres on it through my Aries mini and it sounds really good.
Click to expand...

I really like Qobuz so far. The roon integration is a particular highlight (although this is true of Tidal too) as it means my entire digital database whether it’s streaming or files is all in one place. The facts it’s working off FLAC rather than MQA makes it much more flexible for gear too.

I paid the whole year up front for €250 which gives you the equivalent of 2 months free.
 
Joe Mac said:
I really like Qobuz so far. The roon integration is a particular highlight (although this is true of Tidal too) as it means my entire digital database whether it’s streaming or files is all in one place. The facts it’s working off FLAC rather than MQA makes it much more flexible for gear too.

I paid the whole year up front for €250 which gives you the equivalent of 2 months free.
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Roon is on the list to test out next...maybe I’ll set that up today...Qobuz syncs up to the Aries software but it’s not all within one place which is a bit unfortunate...
 
MikeH said:
Roon is on the list to test out next...maybe I’ll set that up today...Qobuz syncs up to the Aries software but it’s not all within one place which is a bit unfortunate...
Click to expand...

The more I use roon the more I’m impressed by it. It takes in the Qobuz albums/tracks as if they were your own files and lets you edit the metadata etc. The only way you can tell is the little Qobuz logo below the artwork!
 
Joe Mac said:
The more I use roon the more I’m impressed by it. It takes in the Qobuz albums/tracks as if they were your own files and lets you edit the metadata etc. The only way you can tell is the little Qobuz logo below the artwork!
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And Roon is wayyyy better than the built-in Aries software even though you connect Qobuz through that too...I got a 30 day free trial for Roon, so after that I'll decide if I want to just buy the lifetime license or try it for a year.
 
Tidal finally roped me in with their current Rock The Vote promo. They've got 4 months to prove that they are notably better than Spotify. I expect them to prove their worth, but my wallet is hoping they won't.

However, if they do giftcard sales during the holiday season ($10 for $20 etc) I might stock pile up and possibly keep it longer.
 
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