The Blue Note Thread

Grabbed the last copy from my local last week. Another great job by Kevin (his signature airy, lush high end), Sounds great (bests my cd). A great swingin bop session from a underrated player. Johnny Coles on Trumpet is also great as are all the players. Not sure why Alfred and Francis never released this one ? I like it slightly more than Minor Move, right up there With Back To The Tracks. Thanks to Cuscuna for discovering it (I believe?) and BN for the TP press. Shout out to @Ghost for his encouraging words on this one.

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JohnnyCashFan said:
Grabbed the last copy from my local last week. Another great job by Kevin (his signature airy, lush high end), Sounds great (bests my cd). A great swingin bop session from a underrated player. Johnny Coles on Trumpet is also great as are all the players. Not sure why Alfred and Francis never released this one ? I like it slightly more than Minor Move, right up there With Back To The Tracks. Thanks to Cuscuna for discovering it (I believe?) and BN for the TP press. Shout out to @Ghost for his encouraging words on this one.

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I have read a few different books that mention that Lion wasn't too fond of Brooks, im almost certain that his wife mentioned this in one book. I think I'm remembering correctly in that Brooks took an advance out early at the discretion of Lion (almost certainly to score) and still turned up late to sessions and was generally a handful. This would likely have rubbed Lion the wrong way.

Of course, it's almost certain that the Blue Note shelves were also full of sessions and if Lion wasn't too fond of Brooks to start with then there it can be understood why his music might not have initially been released.

Fantastic session though for sure, I have this in the Mosaic set and always enjoy listening.
 
I think Lion was happy to pay addicts to score as long as they were high functioning like Art Blakey.

I don't know enough about how their contracts were structured but something feels a little predatory on how Blue Note would decide to shelve some sessions. Yes they paid musicians for the sessions and even paid for rehearsal time (something that was unheard of at the time). But it also must have been highly frustrating to record sessions for them and have the session just sit and wait for its release, especially if that is another potential way for the musician to earn.
 
jamieanderson1968 said:
I think Lion was happy to pay addicts to score as long as they were high functioning like Art Blakey.

I don't know enough about how their contracts were structured but something feels a little predatory on how Blue Note would decide to shelve some sessions. Yes they paid musicians for the sessions and even paid for rehearsal time (something that was unheard of at the time). But it also must have been highly frustrating to record sessions for them and have the session just sit and wait for its release, especially if that is another potential way for the musician to earn.
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Yes he was. He kept smack in his desk drawer for musicians when the session needed a hit.

And yes, BN contracts were predatory. Musicians were paid a session fee and that's it. No royalties. BN owned the sessions 100%. Composers would get publishing royalties, which is why many spread the writing credits around, or others tried to bring a tune to the session hoping the leader would pick it up.

The other side of that coin is that BN invested a lot in these artists and gave them opportunities for exposure that they may very well not have had otherwise. Columbia and Capitol tended not to invest in junkies or black music generally.

So, predatory, yes. No control by artists? Yes. But giving opportunities to artists like Andrew Hill, a Dexter Gordon out of jail that no one wanted to touch, Bobby Hutcherson, Grachan Moncur and many others that we would likely have never heard of if not for BN? Solid yes.
 
jamieanderson1968 said:
I think Lion was happy to pay addicts to score as long as they were high functioning like Art Blakey.

I don't know enough about how their contracts were structured but something feels a little predatory on how Blue Note would decide to shelve some sessions. Yes they paid musicians for the sessions and even paid for rehearsal time (something that was unheard of at the time). But it also must have been highly frustrating to record sessions for them and have the session just sit and wait for its release, especially if that is another potential way for the musician to earn.
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Oh completely. Ike Quebec was informally the 'go to man' for a while and would pop out to score for the musicians before the session. Lion actually hired him as an arranger and sort of scout after a while on the back of this, which I always think is pretty amazing when you consider his status as a musician.

I guess the issue (if you can really call it that) is that they recorded so much material that to release it all when it was recorded would have just saturated their own market. Still, it's certainly crazy to me when I hear a killer session that was shelved for years but I guess there must have been logical reasons at the time.

I'm just reading Thelonious Monks biography and his initial sessions were released as a full length LP only after he had a write up in a jazz journal. The article was the first lengthy one that was very complimentary (Lion's wife hyped him up as the person that 'invented' bebop and the journalist's bit). I guess there are endless decisions like this that were just not documented at the time. It would certainly make a fascinating read.
 
jamieanderson1968 said:
I think Lion was happy to pay addicts to score as long as they were high functioning like Art Blakey.

I don't know enough about how their contracts were structured but something feels a little predatory on how Blue Note would decide to shelve some sessions. Yes they paid musicians for the sessions and even paid for rehearsal time (something that was unheard of at the time). But it also must have been highly frustrating to record sessions for them and have the session just sit and wait for its release, especially if that is another potential way for the musician to earn.
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Many bought suits, minks, and cars as well, but I know what your sayin ;) I know Jimmy Smith held a grudge to the day he died.
 
RHANDMJ said:
So, predatory, yes. No control by artists? Yes. But giving opportunities to artists like Andrew Hill, a Dexter Gordon out of jail that no one wanted to touch, Bobby Hutcherson, Grachan Moncur and many others that we would likely have never heard of if not for BN? Solid yes.
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and George Braith, Jutta Hipp, Gil Melle, Horace Parlan, Herbie Nichols, Babyface Willette just to name a few more
 
jamieanderson1968 said:
I plan to clean my copy of Moanin' tomorrow so I will report back. But visually I see no issues with my copy.
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Ok I take this back. I looked at the record today in natural light and was shocked at how many scuff marks there are. I have picked up about 20 BN80/Classics (both done at Optimal) and this is by far the most scuffed up. Not sure if it was the poly-lined sleeve (which I replaced) or if they had it in a paper sleeve at first and then switched it.

But just listened to side 1 on headphones and not a pop or click.
 
Selaws said:
Oh completely. Ike Quebec was informally the 'go to man' for a while and would pop out to score for the musicians before the session. Lion actually hired him as an arranger and sort of scout after a while on the back of this, which I always think is pretty amazing when you consider his status as a musician.

I guess the issue (if you can really call it that) is that they recorded so much material that to release it all when it was recorded would have just saturated their own market. Still, it's certainly crazy to me when I hear a killer session that was shelved for years but I guess there must have been logical reasons at the time.

I'm just reading Thelonious Monks biography and his initial sessions were released as a full length LP only after he had a write up in a jazz journal. The article was the first lengthy one that was very complimentary (Lion's wife hyped him up as the person that 'invented' bebop and the journalist's bit). I guess there are endless decisions like this that were just not documented at the time. It would certainly make a fascinating read.
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Lion often had sessions just to give the musicians some money, that were recorded. He never expected to release every session he recorded.

IMO, there have been some gems that have come out that were shelved simply because he had too many sessions from that musician. And then there are those, quite a few actually, that were shelved because they weren't all that good.

My experience is that Michael Cuscuna milked the unreleased BN catalog in the 70's for the prime stuff, then again in the early CD era for good stuff that he couldn't get released in the 70's, but since then, the law of diminishing returns has come into force, and too much barrel scraping has been going on due to the resurgent interest in BN, and the willingness of buyers to jump on any unreleased material.
 
e.s. said:
That's true, but a lot of the material Cuscuna unearthed between the '70s and the '90s would benefit from the remastering / repackaging. I feel like there are at least a couple dozen albums between CD-only and Japan-only releases that would make great Tone Poets.
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Good point. Lee Morgan - Taru comes to mind. Hank Mobley - Third Season also.
 
BN Classics Soul Station just arrived... Yeah this one is even more scratched up than Moanin'. What the heck did they do to these things before they shipped?

EDIT: and after a full clean and spin I can report pretty much exactly the same thing as the cogs reviews are saying. Mastering is fantastic, side A plays wonderfully, side B plays wonderfully until the end of track 2 and then all of track 3 is riddled with intermittent left channel hits of distortion.
 
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snoops said:
My Moanin' and Soul Station showed up today. Both are minty fresh and no scuffs. @Mather has some of the worst luck when it comes to records. :) Going to do some A / B listening with the Music Matters versions tonight. These classic series seem like an absolute steal at this price.

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Normally I'd agree with you, but one look at the cogs reviews and you'll see I'm in the majority on this one. I thought maybe it was the sleeves that caused the scuffs but Soul Station was one of the dirtiest records I've ever had come out of a poly sleeve, so that might be it. But either way, the scuffs aren't causing that distortion everyone is reporting, that's a pressing issue... But I hope you're good. It sounds great when it isn't blasting distortion at you.
 
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Mather said:
Normally I'd agree with you, but one look at the cogs reviews and you'll see I'm in the majority on this one. I thought maybe it was the sleeves that caused the scuffs but Soul Station was one of the dirtiest records ive ever had come out of a poly sleeve, so that might be it. But either way, the scuffs aren't causing that distortion everyone is reporting, that's a pressing issue... But I hope you're good. It sounds great when it isn't blasting distortion at you.
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Fingers crossed 🤞. I’ll report back.
 
Well listened to both this morning. Moanin' sounded pretty dang good. Dynamic range was present and felt there was good separation of instruments. I did have an occasional crackle or pop, but I haven't run it through my VPI cleaner yet. Also, the noise floor was a bit louder than the MM SRX version, but that was expected.

Soul Station was crisp, clear, and dead silent. I'll probably reach for this 33 over the 45rpm MM more often than not just for the convenience factor. No complaints on this one at all.

It would appear Optimal has some quality control issues based on what others are reporting vs. my experience. Hoping everyone can get their hands on a good clean copy.
 
snoops said:
Well listened to both this morning. Moanin' sounded pretty dang good. Dynamic range was present and felt there was good separation of instruments. I did have an occasional crackle or pop, but I haven't run it through my VPI cleaner yet. Also, the noise floor was a bit louder than the MM SRX version, but that was expected.

Soul Station was crisp, clear, and dead silent. I'll probably reach for this 33 over the 45rpm MM more often than not just for the convenience factor. No complaints on this one at all.

It would appear Optimal has some quality control issues based on what others are reporting vs. my experience. Hoping everyone can get their hands on a good clean copy.
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Glad yours were okay, I've seen a few people on cogs saying their second or third copies were clean so I'm going to keep trying. I have a 66 Mono Moanin' so I don't HAVE to have that one, but my BN 75 Soul Station is in bad need of an upgrade and those MMs are wicked expensive now.
 
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