An empty vessel makes the loudest sound. That’s not a member whose opinion I’d be overly concerned with on anything really.
Political Discussion
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An empty vessel makes the loudest sound. That’s not a member whose opinion I’d be overly concerned with on anything really.
LeSamourai
Well-Known Member
What if you're an "old millennial" but actually find the very concept of "generations" rather arbitrarily defined and not terribly useful, especially in light of the fact that intra-generational diversity is far greater than inter-generational diversity, and the sheer number of both wonderful and horrible people in every "generation?"
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
I drive past this White Castle every day. Very believable story. Very legal, very cool.
Taibbi was so good ca. 2008 when he was writing about the crimes of the big banks during the financial crisis. In recent years, he has totally lost his goddamn mind.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
How so? As a longtime reader of his, I see absolutely no evidence of this within this interview. Nor in his work for RS.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
"Lost his mind" might not be the right term. More like "I don't understand the position he has staked out as a journalist." I'm not a Rogan listener, so to be fair, most of my recent engagement with Taibbi's thinking has been through the occasional tweet. But I don't understand his alignment with Greenwald and the "Russiagate is a fake story" crowd. He seems to have concluded that because the Mueller investigation wasn't fruitful as it pertains to evidence against Trump personally, it was all a waste of time and energy and based on a false premise. It's weird to see his utter contempt for anyone who takes the reasonable position that Mueller's investigation didn't yield a smoking gun on the Trump front, but did reinforce the evidence that Russian intelligence took an active role in disrupting our electoral process. I understand being skeptical that the investigation would result in outcomes like impeachment, but I have trouble with his reasoning beyond that.
I still think he's smart and can be insightful, I just don't understand, as a very casual observer, how he got to where he is on some issues.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
I'd encourage you to listen to the interview. You get a pretty clear view of his head-space. He specifically talks about a lot of things pertaining to the ways in which the media has become an echo chamber that demonizes people who question the narrative of the day. People like Greenwald weren't saying that Russia Gate was a "fake story". They asserted that the media was overplaying it's influence and sensationalizing the story without sticking to known facts.
They also shared my personal opinion on Russia is that is was a way for the media to deflect attention away from any form of thoughtful conversation the larger reasons that Clinton lost. Instead of failed policy, or poor campaigning or the entrenched bias of the DNC during the primaries that pissed off 1/3 of the base.... we got a full year of the Maddow's of the world screaming Russia, Russia, Russia. The reasons for Clinton's loss suddenly became little more than Russia (and Bernie Sanders). The DNC completely skated by without any sort of true reform.
Worse yet, the focus on Russia came at the expense of focus on Trump's actual policies. And the media's complete abandonment of objectivity (as seen here: Trump Is Testing the Norms of Objectivity in Journalism) in covering Trump combined with the inability to find a smoking gun fueled Trump's ability to scream fake news and his supporters willingness to tune out valid criticisms of a very dangerous administration. It's impact is still being felt right now- as his base is unwilling to listen to concrete evidence- in large part because we dealt with two years of "Russia".
Furthermore, accusing people of being Russian assets is suddenly the go-to tactic if the establishment wants to discredit somebody who doesn't take the establishment position on foreign policy. See: Gabbard, Tulsi. Or Greenwald, Glenn. Like Greenwald is an award winning journalist. The guy that Snowden trusted to hand the leaks over. The guy whose investigative journalism just helped free Lula from prison in Brazil. And yet, reddit is full of people who downvote anything the Intercept (a publication that also houses award winning writers like Naomi Klein and Russ Grimm) publishes while accusing it of being a Russia propaganda outlet. It's such a dangerous and slippery slope. And it's become common practice. Heck, you are sort of doing it right here.
As to Rogan, I have mixed feeling on him (he is basically a progressive libertarian with a couple of positions that piss the sociologist inside of me off). But I respect the fact that he brings people of all ideologies onto his show and has managed to build a space where both the right of center Gen Xers and progressive milennials feel at home. I also recommend the podcast Citations Needed. They do a great job of breaking down and analyzing modern media narratives and why they exist.
Episode 34: What the Hell is Wrong with MSNBC?
Listen to this episode from Citations Needed on Spotify. MSNBC is by far the most influential mainstream media outlet on the American Left. It sets the tone and defines the boundary for what is acceptable discourse among American liberals. But major issues the Left is generally thought to care...
open.spotify.com
Episode 61: What The Hell Is Wrong With MSNBC, Part II -- A Rebuttal
Listen to this episode from Citations Needed on Spotify. In Ep. 34: 'What The Hell Is Wrong With MSNBC', we discussed with our anonymous MSNBC informant, well, what the hell was wrong with MSNBC? Why do they routinely focused on inane horserace and RussiaGate fear-mongering over objectively...
open.spotify.com
Episode 45: The Not-So-Benevolent Billionaire: Bill Gates and Western Media
Listen to this episode from Citations Needed on Spotify. Russia, as we all know, has sinister “oligarchs” whereas in the United States, we are told, we have “philanthropists,” “job creators,” and “titans of industry” who earn their wealth through hard work, moxie, and guile. Aside from a few...
open.spotify.com
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Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Cherry picking a quote here to anchor a response to. The trouble here is that there were competing audiences and interests tracking this investigation and the associated stories. I agree that too many people conflated the purpose of the Russia investigation with trying to find a single reason Clinton lost. The DNC needs to do its own soul searching either way. But that wasn’t actually the purpose, in my mind. The purpose was delineating exactly how our democracy was being influenced by foreign powers, and how the candidate who eventually won not only broke norms by encouraging that behavior, but now had a vested interest in not protecting the electoral process from further attacks. The integrity of the investigation isn’t sullied by the desires that some in the media projected onto it, but the sense you get from a casual reading of Greenwald or Taibbi (emphasis on the casual, meaning not someone who follows them closely for a really nuanced perspective of their specific views) is that they’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I think the end result in many instances is that even if Greenwald’s and Taibbi’s motivations are the opposite of the right’s, the constant assailing of “mainstream media” as a bunch of dupes who can’t be trusted only serves to further weaken public confidence in the nature of truth (which, I know, is exactly what Greenwald/Taibbi AND the right would both say about mainstream media, also, so everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else).
I take your point, but my issues aren’t that they’re assets as much as that their dismissal of the “scandals” also necessarily comes with a minimization of the real issues that generated them.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
15 straight national polls show Bernie defeating Trump. This one by a +8. Can't say the same of Warren or Pete. Or Biden anymore.
"In response to the survey, the Sanders campaign pointed to the senator's strength among independent voters as evidence that he is the candidate best-suited to take on Trump in the general election.
According to the SurveyUSA poll, Sanders— would defeat Trump by 10 percentage points among independents. The survey showed Biden defeating Trump among independents by a smaller margin of six percent."
www.commondreams.org
@Indymisanthrope I will respond in depth to your other post when it isn't a Saturday night
"In response to the survey, the Sanders campaign pointed to the senator's strength among independent voters as evidence that he is the candidate best-suited to take on Trump in the general election.
According to the SurveyUSA poll, Sanders— would defeat Trump by 10 percentage points among independents. The survey showed Biden defeating Trump among independents by a smaller margin of six percent."
Bernie Sanders 'Acing the Electability Test' as Another Poll Shows Senator Crushing Trump in General
"This is the fifteenth straight poll that shows Bernie defeating Trump."
www.commondreams.org
@Indymisanthrope I will respond in depth to your other post when it isn't a Saturday night
Mike Bloomberg launches bid for 2020 Democratic presidential nomination
Bloomberg says: "Defeating Trump — and rebuilding America — is the most urgent and important fight of our lives. And I'm going all in."
Sighs...
AnthonyI
Well-Known Member
This is the chance ANYONE with presidential aspirations to step up and roll the dice....................unfortunately.Mike Bloomberg launches bid for 2020 Democratic presidential nomination
Bloomberg says: "Defeating Trump — and rebuilding America — is the most urgent and important fight of our lives. And I'm going all in."www.cnbc.com
Sighs...
On the local news this morning they were talking to a financial expert about the student loan debt crisis.
Here are some takeaway points from what he said. And all of them do not sound like a solution.
First major talking point. Do not count on student loan debt relief or elimination in the future that some presidential candidates are promising. There is zero chance of it passing both the house and the senate. Especially with the special interest groups involved.
For people who already have student loan debt here is the advice given.
Also, pay 2x your minimum payments? I'm living paycheck to paycheck just trying to pay student loans and covering the cost of living. Sure I could give up records, but that would not be anywhere close to being able to pay 2x a month on my student loan debt. Which by the way is more now 11 years after graduation than it was when I graduated due to using forbearance during the recession and when I was laid off.
Here are some takeaway points from what he said. And all of them do not sound like a solution.
First major talking point. Do not count on student loan debt relief or elimination in the future that some presidential candidates are promising. There is zero chance of it passing both the house and the senate. Especially with the special interest groups involved.
For people who already have student loan debt here is the advice given.
- You should never cut back on your 401k contributions to put towards student loans.
- You should always pay 2x the minimum payment. Whether all at once or 2 payments a month.
- Create a budget and follow it to make sure you are putting what ever money that you can towards paying off your student loan deb.
- Have your bank set up a save the change account and apply all that money towards your student loans..
- Payoff your higher interest student loans first.
- Have a serious discussion with your family on whether or not you can afford to go to college.
- Go to that local community collage over that $70,000 a year ivy league school you got accepted to if you can't afford it.
- Community colleges are cheaper than State Schools
- If you are unsure what you want to do consider postponing college.
- If you can't afford college, don't go. It's financially responsible. You don't want to set yourself up for failure / not being able to pay back your loans.
Also, pay 2x your minimum payments? I'm living paycheck to paycheck just trying to pay student loans and covering the cost of living. Sure I could give up records, but that would not be anywhere close to being able to pay 2x a month on my student loan debt. Which by the way is more now 11 years after graduation than it was when I graduated due to using forbearance during the recession and when I was laid off.
sometimes your countrys relation to nudeness is weird.
But, a serious question. Do american parents never take a bath in th bathtub with their children?
folsom_lives
Well-Known Member
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm guessing that the combination of Utah, a 27 year old stepmom, and a 13 year old kid means that there is another story underneath the first story, wherein "decency" has been weaponized in service of a personal vendetta.
folsom_lives
Well-Known Member
Yeah, as soon as I saw the biological mother filed the complaint I rolled my eyes.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
Yeah - not getting an education isn't a solution and while I agree with financially educating yourself and looking at community colleges the idea that 17 and 18 year olds know what their career is going to be is ridiculous. The model of using your high-school age years to explore different fields, as is done in some other countries, is something the U.S. should've incorporated into its model a very long time ago, but as it is 13-18 year olds are taught to regurgitate certain facts and dates instead of learning things like geology, genetics, economics, and computer engineering.
The point about ivy league schools is dumb too. Many ivys have free or next to free tuition for the non-legacy kids, making them cheaper than many state schools. The intensity of the research, at least in my experience, is different at certain institutions. I have professional colleagues that do not problem solve nearly as well as some others and some of that issue has to do with where they were educated.
The problem as it's presented is that American expectations are wrong and the actions of teenagers and their parents impractical. Instead, the problem should be about the false non-profit status of many many schools, the rising laborforce of administrative paper pushers, the lack of practical job skills taught in secondary education, the impacts of the real estate scam on college campuses and their surrounding areas, and (perhaps most importantly) the financial institution scam that is profiting off of the backs of college kids and their parents.
College isn't the only answer and that it has presented as such has done a great disservice to people, BUT for many jobs, including the ability to advance to the management level, an advanced degree is required. All of the data points to better outcomes (economic, health, happiness) for people with at least a secondary education.
There probably is no fixing things for those that have already been screwed, but we can chose to have different rules and policies for the people that come next.
All of it is about inequality. Where some people are more at risk and more desperate than others. We live in a country where we blame the individual for everything instead of looking at the systems that promoted their choices and behaviors.
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Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
And getting worse. The Indy public school system has adopted a “total school choice” system in which students can apply — to high school! — to any public/charter/magnet school in the district. They’re encouraged to visit different high schools, and are encouraged to choose Purdue’s dual-campus polytechnic high school if they’re planning a STEM career, or pick the high school that teaches the language they want if they plan to study abroad as undergrads, or look into what AP courses are offered so that they can test out of what they need in college.
These kids are 14. Expecting them to know what they want past lunchtime is futile. Knowing your college major? Your career path? It’s insane.
And it’s also insidious. Because it’s not about choice. It’s about devaluing public education, using public funds for the privatization of schools, and juking stats.
AnthonyI
Well-Known Member
All I want to know is why we labeled any generation after the Boomers? I get why the term was coined for "Baby Boomers", but what was the catalyst for the rest? I digress, regardless of your generation, as a last minute boomer (64), all I see ramping up, and it's been brought up already, are more and more ways to divide the population as a whole instead of uniting it.
It's everyone's fault and no ones, but the powers that be need to keep stocking those division inducing fires because it helps their agenda. Maybe someday we'll figure out how to break the cycle.
It's everyone's fault and no ones, but the powers that be need to keep stocking those division inducing fires because it helps their agenda. Maybe someday we'll figure out how to break the cycle.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
Writer from the New Yorker. Link to Fed Reserve report is linked to the original tweet.
The craziest part of that data is that there are substantially more millennials than Gen Xers.
The craziest part of that data is that there are substantially more millennials than Gen Xers.