Hip Hop

Dead C said:
Nobody's mentioned Q-TIP, MF DOOM, Pete Rock, EL-P, or Prince Paul?
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Pete Rock and Tip would definitely be in the running.

Not that big on El-Ps production to be honest.

Man there's so many dope producers, every list that small is going to miss multiple important talents.

This is why over the years I've really given up on attempting any list that requires me to narrow down anything below 25 or so. It's impossible for me.
 
Kr00ked said:
Not that big on El-Ps production to be honest.
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Funcrusher and Cold Vein are groundbreaking releases. As for including Earl, but not DOOM, as one of the great producer... I guess that's a personal preference like anything else. Still, a lot of these folks don't exist without their predecessors and influences.
 
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Dead C said:
Funcrusher and Cold Vein are groundbreaking releases. As for including Earl, but not DOOM, as one if the great producer... I guess that's a personal preference like anything else. Still, a lot of these folks don't exist without their predecessors and influences.
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Again, not big on El-Ps production.

I didn't 'not include Doom' lol. I literally said I could easily keep going and hate making lists for this very reason. Somebody is always going to be left out when trying to narrow shit down like that.

List your top 10, and then please proceed to criticize yourself for any and all predecessors to present producers you will leave out 😂
 
Also, somebody having a predescessor or influencer doesn't make them at all the lesser, imo. And I would never assume that they wouldn't exist without them either 🤷
 
I can't make lists like this well and many of my immediate favorites who are big names have been mentioned like:

Primo, DOOM, Prince Paul, Rza, Organized Konfusion, Madlib, Q-tip, Dilla

Not a very exciting or controversial list, but other modern guys I'd throw out who haven't been mentioned as more of a current person who I get excited about than a best all time:

Tyler
Quelle Chris
Kenny Segal
Messiah Musik
August Fanon

Really hard for me to weight different eras and people who have produced lots of great albums/songs against people who have only done a couple of my favorite albums, but I am not hardly even familiar with what they did outside of those, like Havoc and J-Swift. I know Havoc is on all kinds of stuff but sometimes it is hard to separate the production if it is an album I'm not into overall.

I'm sure I forgot some that I should have mentioned.
 
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Kr00ked said:
Again, not big on El-Ps production.

I didn't 'not include Doom' lol. I literally said I could easily keep going and hate making lists for this very reason. Somebody is always going to be left out when trying to narrow shit down like that.

List your top 10, and then please proceed to criticize yourself for any and all predecessors to present producers you will leave out 😂
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My original comment was never actually directed at you. I think top 5 lists are worthless for the very reasons that you mention and that's why I don't make them. My comment was simply that I was surprised that, as multiple people started mentioning their top producers, not a single one of those 5 had been included, yet. I assumed that at least one person would include Q-Tip for example. I don't expect any one of them to be on every list, but after multiple lists, it seems surprising that nobody is mentioning some of these guys. You just chose to respond to why YOU personally didn't add them and with who deserved to be "in the running." If that's just who would be "in the running" for your personal list, that's cool. If it's who deserves to be "in the running" in general, that's, obviously, a whole different discussion, altogether. I'm not telling you to like EL, or to put anyone on your list of personal favorites -- it doesn't matter to me -- I'm just stating in general why all of those producers deserve to be considered in the conversation, overall. Nobody "criticized" your choices. If you're taking it that way, then there's the disconnect between what each of us are discussing.

There's always the question about whether these lists are about mentioning your personal favorites or who you actually believe deserves the spot -- for example, I think the best WEEN album is the POD, but for personal reasons, Pure Guava is my favorite.

In your response to my post, you specifically took only Pete Rock and Q-Tip out and stated that those two, specifically, would be "in the running." Meanwhile, you already mentioned Earl, so you effectively left out DOOM and included Earl over him, but it doesn't matter. I like Earl. I'm just surprised by all these newer cats being on the list, when I can't hear a lot of them without hearing where they came from. But, again, I don't expect anyone to put Grandmaster Flash on here either, so it's all subjective. Just because you did it first doesn't always mean you did it best. Then there's the discussion of catalog and legacy, because -- as you know -- it's not uncommon for some young cat to make a single album and already find themselves in the GOAT discussion surprisingly fast these days.

Regarding EL, he has fallen off for me quite a bit in recent years, but nothing was sounding like Funcrusher when that came out and Cold Vein will always be considered an objective masterpiece. Like I said, everything is a personal preference, though, which is why I don't give a shit about Eminem and love Kool Keith, but if I'm personally ranking things, I'm thinking about impact. EL changed shit in a way that a lot of people may not recognize or acknowledge. RZA, TIP, Premier, Dre... they all left blueprints that people followed. Same with DOOM. That being said, I don't care for Timbaland, so I'm not saying you have to like anybody. I don't really give a shit. I think it's what we personally consider as individuals when we make these lists. What criteria are we going by. With emcees, I like lyricists, but others might lean more towards who can make the best song, or style, voice, or best concepts.

Another reason that I mentioned those 5 that I did is simply because, with all of the endless choices, it's easy to let even the most obvious choices slip past you. History is a funny thing, though. I don't remember people clamoring for Labcabincalifornia when that came out, so it took a while for the masses to warm up to Dilla. Today, you're pretty much expected to put his name down on a list like this automatically.
 
Dead C said:
My original comment was never actually directed at you. I think top 5 lists are worthless for the very reasons that you mention and that's why I don't make them. My comment was simply that I was surprised that, as multiple people started mentioning their top producers, not a single one of those 5 had been included, yet. I assumed that at least one person would include Q-Tip for example. I don't expect any one of them to be on every list, but after multiple lists, it seems surprising that nobody is mentioning some of these guys. You just chose to respond to why YOU personally didn't add them and with who deserved to be "in the running." If that's just who would be "in the running" for your personal list, that's cool. If it's who deserves to be "in the running" in general, that's, obviously, a whole different discussion, altogether. I'm not telling you to like EL, or to put anyone on your list of personal favorites -- it doesn't matter to me -- I'm just stating in general why all of those producers deserve to be considered in the conversation, overall. Nobody "criticized" your choices. If you're taking it that way, then there's the disconnect between what each of us are discussing.

There's always the question about whether these lists are about mentioning your personal favorites or who you actually believe deserves the spot -- for example, I think the best WEEN album is the POD, but for personal reasons, Pure Guava is my favorite.

In your response to my post, you specifically took only Pete Rock and Q-Tip out and stated that those two, specifically, would be "in the running." Meanwhile, you already mentioned Earl, so you effectively left out DOOM and included Earl over him, but it doesn't matter. I like Earl. I'm just surprised by all these newer cats being on the list, when I can't hear a lot of them without hearing where they came from. But, again, I don't expect anyone to put Grandmaster Flash on here either, so it's all subjective. Just because you did it first doesn't always mean you did it best. Then there's the discussion of catalog and legacy, because -- as you know -- it's not uncommon for some young cat to make a single album and already find themselves in the GOAT discussion surprisingly fast these days.

Regarding EL, he has fallen off for me quite a bit in recent years, but nothing was sounding like Funcrusher when that came out and Cold Vein will always be considered an objective masterpiece. Like I said, everything is a personal preference, though, which is why I don't give a shit about Eminem and love Kool Keith, but if I'm personally ranking things, I'm thinking about impact. EL changed shit in a way that a lot of people may not recognize or acknowledge. RZA, TIP, Premier, Dre... they all left blueprints that people followed. Same with DOOM. That being said, I don't care for Timbaland, so I'm not saying you have to like anybody. I don't really give a shit. I think it's what we personally consider as individuals when we make these lists. What criteria are we going by. With emcees, I like lyricists, but others might lean more towards who can make the best song, or style, voice, or best concepts.

Another reason that I mentioned those 5 that I did is simply because, with all of the endless choices, it's easy to let even the most obvious choices slip past you. History is a funny thing, though. I don't remember people clamoring for Labcabincalifornia when that came out, so it took a while for the masses to warm up to Dilla. Today, you're pretty much expected to put his name down on a list like this automatically.
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The disconnect starts with you not being able to list your own preferences without being 'surprised' by anyone else's choices. So much so that you felt the need to question those choices as if the names you didn't see mentioned automtaically hold more weight.

Whether it be directed at me personally, or at everyone that posted is irrelevant.

Again, Doom is not 'not included' just because I chose to not mention him here, along with Prince Paul and 100 other producers I could've listed. I simply chose to only list a group of names that I've most recently been listening to. If you weren't so caught up being 'surprised' by these lists, then you could've also noticed I clearly only stated that I'm not in to El-p, not Doom.

Maybe let your assumptions take that part in to consideration before jumping to any conclusions of me placing any producer over any other producer, when again, I clearly stated I could easily keep going with names.

Or better yet, don't assume shit at all about my picks and just stick to naming your favorites that you would've liked to see named without questioning other peoples choices.

You say you don't give a shit, yet here we are. 🤷
 
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DJ Premier
Preemo
Christopher Edward Martin
That Gangstarr Producer, I forget his name
Dr. Dre (nobody else has mentioned him!)
Organized Noize
Alchemist
Daringer
Dilla (Fantastik Vol. 2!!!!)
Madlib (really just Madvillainy and Madgibbs)
OG RZA

Artists who primarily produce for themselves:
Big KRIT
DOOM
Larry Fisherman
Oddisee
 
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Vinyl&Kicks86 said:
i think top 5 or whatever list should be done out of fun and personal preference and shouldn't be read into too seriously just more for entertainment to pass the time.
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Once you have declared a top 5 it shall be committed forever to stone monoliths and displayed at the entrance of the village for all to see, judge, and know you by XD
 
SixthDeadlyVenom said:
DJ Premier
Preemo
Christopher Edward Martin
That Gangstarr Producer, I forget his name
Dr. Dre (nobody else has mentioned him!)
Organized Noize
Alchemist
Daringer
Dilla
Madlib (really just Madvillainy and Madgibbs)
RZA

Artists who primarily produce for themselves:
Big KRIT
DOOM
Larry Fisherman
Oddisee
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Love to see Premier on there twice! 😆

Or did you mean something else about Gang Starr?
 
Alright, I'm gonna take it a step further and list some of my favorite beats from my favorite producers.

Premier
The 6th Sense, Royalty, Above The Clouds, A Million And One Questions/Rhyme No More, Nas Is Like, N.Y. State Of Mind, Devil's Pie, What You Expected, Now You're Mine, The Best Part, Follow Instructions, Kick In The Door, D'evils, Code Of The Streets

RZA
Triumph, Reunited, Incarcerated Scarfaces, Verbal Intercourse, 7th Chamber Part II, Nutmeg, Liquid Swords, Cold World, 4th Chamber, Rainy Dayz, Guillotine, Wu-Tang Ain't Nuthin' Ta Fuck Wit, CREAM, Hollow Bones, Run

Kanye
Late, Be Intro, Guess Who's Back, The People, Get By, New God Flow, Champion, Heard Em Say, Gold Digger, Diamonds, Come Back Baby, Numbers On The Board, Pain, The Truth, Real People, Hear The Song, Heart Of The City, Spaceship, Dark Fantasy, Sunshine
 
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