Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

duke86fan said:
But why do audiophile call ortofon essential instead

I just need to figure out what to plan for in the future (and do instead of sleep)
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Ortofon and Audio Technica are the two largest cartridge manufacturers in the world. You’ll see more reviews and more owners opinions. It doesn’t mean they are the “best” or even good in some instances. McDonalds is the largest fast food establishment in the world, yet their “hamburgers” don’t even taste like beef. Go down the street to a privately owned place and you may have the best burger you’ve ever eaten. Or maybe you like McDonald’s. That’s cool too, as long as you are happy.

Also realize that Ortofon makes cartridges that start at $39 or so to many thousands of dollars. Most of them I wouldn’t bother to piss on if they were on fire. But the SPU series? I’d love one of those. The OM or 2m Series is light years away from an SPU.

Grados are a funny thing. They aren’t “audiophile” in my opinion, and yet they are the highest in fidelity that I’ve found that are both affordable and have a reasonably priced user replaceable stylus. Music lovers love them. Techie types? Not so much.

You’ve previously mentioned moving coil cartridges. Think about this. Let’s say you buy an expensive moving coil cartridge. Do you really want to worry that your stylus is wearing out every time you listen to music? It will cost $300 and up to have the cartridge retipped. Or just figure $150 every year or two for a replacement Grado stylus. Music is supposed to be enjoyable. It’s not fun if you are stressing about it.

To plan for the future? In audio? You’ll have to learn the hard way like I did. Make mistakes. Expensive ones.

Or you can benefit by heeding the advice of those with far more experience than you have. Accept the advice you are freely given here. You are drawing from a group with literally over a century of experience that has no attitude, no agenda- we just want to help people.

Audiophiles listen to gear. Music lovers listen to music. That’s the difference between most of the Ortofons that I’ve heard and Grados. But that’s just me. If you want an Ortofon I believe @Chucktshoes offered to give you his. As references to my approach, @mcherry @Colonel_Angus and @AnthonyI have heard my system at various points. I think they all liked what they heard.

Only you can find what makes you happy. I’ve found what works for me.
 
duke86fan said:
But why do audiophile call ortofon essential instead

I just need to figure out what to plan for in the future (and do instead of sleep)
Click to expand...
I have to agree with @HiFi Guy, you need to realize only YOU can find out what makes you happy. It requires patience, sometimes some unfortunate spending, and getting your ears on stuff.
Honestly, the more you hear, the more value reviews have. Once you've heard items being discussed or described, you'll have a reference point. Until then a review might as well be a foreign language.

Also, as Hifi pointed out, reviews are often more representative of a company's size and marketing ability. And another thing to consider is the whole system being reviewed... including the room.

Here's my most extreme example. I went to a demo for the Audio Research 160S amp. It was paired up with Wilson Sasha DAW speakers, dCS flagship DAC and streamer, and all connected with flagship transparent cables. Well over $100k and some of the most well reviewed gear in the world. This is gear that you literally cannot find a bad review about. And don't get me wrong, it was good. But maybe it's my personal preference, maybe it was the room, maybe it was an off day... but I left that review thinking about how much I preferred a $60k system that I'd hear previously of all Italian gear (Rosso Fiorentino speakers with Norma mono blocks and North Star DAC). I personally would have taken that cheaper system all day every day. And you'd struggle to even find reviews on that gear anywhere. The price difference is more than a new car.

Some things get great reviews because they are great. Some things get great reviews because they are a great price. And some things get great reviews because they have a great marketing team getting gear into reviewers hands. But until you recognize that reviews are largely entertaining marketing, and until you've heard enough gear to really comprehend what a reviewer is specifically trying to convey, reviews don't mean all that much.
 
displayname said:
I have to agree with @HiFi Guy, you need to realize only YOU can find out what makes you happy. It requires patience, sometimes some unfortunate spending, and getting your ears on stuff.
Honestly, the more you hear, the more value reviews have. Once you've heard items being discussed or described, you'll have a reference point. Until then a review might as well be a foreign language.

Also, as Hifi pointed out, reviews are often more representative of a company's size and marketing ability. And another thing to consider is the whole system being reviewed... including the room.

Here's my most extreme example. I went to a demo for the Audio Research 160S amp. It was paired up with Wilson Sasha DAW speakers, dCS flagship DAC and streamer, and all connected with flagship transparent cables. Well over $100k and some of the most well reviewed gear in the world. This is gear that you literally cannot find a bad review about. And don't get me wrong, it was good. But maybe it's my personal preference, maybe it was the room, maybe it was an off day... but I left that review thinking about how much I preferred a $60k system that I'd hear previously of all Italian gear (Rosso Fiorentino speakers with Norma mono blocks and North Star DAC). I personally would have taken that cheaper system all day every day. And you'd struggle to even find reviews on that gear anywhere. The price difference is more than a new car.

Some things get great reviews because they are great. Some things get great reviews because they are a great price. And some things get great reviews because they have a great marketing team getting gear into reviewers hands. But until you recognize that reviews are largely entertaining marketing, and until you've heard enough gear to really comprehend what a reviewer is specifically trying to convey, reviews don't mean all that much.
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All reviews, whether music, movies, gear, what have you... require that you have formed a relationship (of trust or disbelief) with the reviewer. You need to know what their quirks and preferences are. @HiFi Guy likes music and likes gear that makes music sound like music and not necessarily what the engineers wanted it to sound like (although that’s debatable - but you get the idea - engineers are often thinking about what they want it to sound like on some kind of gear - hence how the loudness wars got traction). Knowing this about him makes his reviews mean more to those in the same pursuit.

Orts are great for classical. Okay for jazz and in my opinion not meant for rock at all. Audiophiles are looking for the kind of sterile precision they provide.

Grados are warm and fuzzy. They bring life to all of my favorite music.

Honestly, ideally, I’d have another set up for classical because it requires different things.
 
Lee Newman said:
All reviews, whether music, movies, gear, what have you... require that you have formed a relationship (of trust or disbelief) with the reviewer. You need to know what their quirks and preferences are. @HiFi Guy likes music and likes gear that makes music sound like music and not necessarily what the engineers wanted it to sound like (although that’s debatable - but you get the idea - engineers are often thinking about what they want it to sound like on some kind of gear - hence how the loudness wars got traction). Knowing this about him makes his reviews mean more to those in the same pursuit.

Orts are great for classical. Okay for jazz and in my opinion not meant for rock at all. Audiophiles are looking for the kind of sterile precision they provide.

Grados are warm and fuzzy. They bring life to all of my favorite music.

Honestly, ideally, I’d have another set up for classical because it requires different things.
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This is why I decided to have my meagre classical collection on CD/SACD/HiRes Streaming. The grado absolutely trounces the ort on the type of rock/folk/indie music that makes up the majority of my listening.
 
duke86fan said:
But why do audiophile call ortofon essential instead

I just need to figure out what to plan for in the future (and do instead of sleep)
Click to expand...
@duke86fan , I have to agree with both @HiFi Guy and @displayname. But that being said, I completely understand its not an easy thing to process in any way, shape or form. I'll equate this to the Zu speakers I just picked up, I heard the Soul's at HiFi's home over vacation, they sounded fantastic, my heart was set on saving for those speakers to replace my Polk's. As time went by, the deal on the DW's i picked up rolled around and they were about $1300 less than the Soul's. With Zu having the return policy they have and the upgrade/trade in offer as well I figured it was worth the roll. Now there were a couple of reasons, regardless of the speakers, I need to hear them HERE, where I listen to music with my equipment.

Which leads to the other point members have made, YOU need to be happy with the result regardless. The Omen's showed up and I gotta say, I'm really in love with them, which made me start thinking, do I want to spend the extra $1300 for the Soul's? Not taking ANYTHING away from them, but I'm more than content with what I'm hearing at this point, why toss more money into the pot?

Lastly, as much of a hassle it might be, you gotta take some chances and keep in mind the vendors return policy when you do so.........make it work to your advantage. As it's already been mentioned, it can take some time, but don't stress too much about it, enjoy the journey, it really is a big part of the fun and discussion around here. ;)
 
Joe Mac said:
This is why I decided to have my meagre classical collection on CD/SACD/HiRes Streaming
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There is a reason classical and jazz are early adopters of tech. That being said both with the right gear can sound phenomenal on vinyl. (I think the grado does an admirable job on jazz as well but I’m pretty much with you, hi res digital sounds better for acoustic instruments)
 
AnthonyI said:
@duke86fan , I have to agree with both @HiFi Guy and @displayname. But that being said, I completely understand its not an easy thing to process in any way, shape or form. I'll equate this to the Zu speakers I just picked up, I heard the Soul's at HiFi's home over vacation, they sounded fantastic, my heart was set on saving for those speakers to replace my Polk's. As time went by, the deal on the DW's i picked up rolled around and they were about $1300 less than the Soul's. With Zu having the return policy they have and the upgrade/trade in offer as well I figured it was worth the roll. Now there were a couple of reasons, regardless of the speakers, I need to hear them HERE, where I listen to music with my equipment.

Which leads to the other point members have made, YOU need to be happy with the result regardless. The Omen's showed up and I gotta say, I'm really in love with them, which made me start thinking, do I want to spend the extra $1300 for the Soul's? Not taking ANYTHING away from them, but I'm more than content with what I'm hearing at this point, why toss more money into the pot?

Lastly, as much of a hassle it might be, you gotta take some chances and keep in mind the vendors return policy when you do so.........make it work to your advantage. As it's already been mentioned, it can take some time, but don't stress too much about it, enjoy the journey, it really is a big part of the fun and discussion around here. ;)
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Also age comes into it. At 19/20 I loved music no less than I do now but i couldn’t afford anymore than a discman attached to a set of cheap active speakers in my uni dorm room. It was fine because I then had the money to spend on the CDs and, more importantly at that age, to go out to gigs and socialising. As I got older, and those things happen less often and I earn more money and I got my own space so I’m not hassling others I was able to get more into gear and getting a better system. Your hifi and music tastes and life are a journey, you don’t start at the end, you move through it learning from experience.
 
Joe Mac said:
Also age comes into it. At 19/20 I loved music no less than I do now but i couldn’t afford anymore than a discman attached to a set of cheap active speakers in my uni dorm room. It was fine because I then had the money to spend on the CDs and, more importantly at that age, to go out to gigs and socialising. As I got older, and those things happen less often and I earn more money and I got my own space so I’m not hassling others I was able to get more into gear and getting a better system. Your hifi and music tastes and life are a journey, you don’t start at the end, you move through it learning from experience.
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I feel like I just word vomited a pile of fortune cookie wisdom there...
 
Lee Newman said:
There is a reason classical and jazz are early adopters of tech. That being said both with the right gear can sound phenomenal on vinyl. (I think the grado does an admirable job on jazz as well but I’m pretty much with you, hi res digital sounds better for acoustic instruments)
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Ya, there really isn't a "one size fits all" cart, and one of the reasons I decided to fill in the missing components of the second system. I would prefer to stay with one type of physical media, lol
 
AnthonyI said:
Ya, there really isn't a "one size fits all" cart, and one of the reasons I decided to fill in the missing components of the second system. I would prefer to stay with one type of physical media, lol
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One thing I would say is worth it’s weight in gold is a decent (and they can be got for fair money these days) hi res streaming box to attach to your hifi and a subscription of qobuz/tidal. I couldn’t possibly own everything on vinyl (or even physically) and it’s a great way to sample/scratch a particular itch.
 
AnthonyI said:
Ya, there really isn't a "one size fits all" cart, and one of the reasons I decided to fill in the missing components of the second system. I would prefer to stay with one type of physical media, lol
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I would too but I have a feeling my wife will draw the line at multiple thousand dollar sets. Lol. When and if I ever get around to upgrading the table, I may just hold onto the U-turn and slap something precise on there for classical music.
 
Joe Mac said:
One thing I would say is worth it’s weight in gold is a decent (and they can be got for fair money these days) hi res streaming box to attach to your hifi and a subscription of qobuz/tidal. I couldn’t possibly own everything on vinyl (or even physically) and it’s a great way to sample/scratch a particular itch.
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Funny you mention that, I've been weighing out the options of a CD transport to a Network streamer for the future, not an easy thing. I think cost might come into play, but as of yet, they seem kind of neck and neck.
 
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Joe Mac said:
I feel like I just word vomited a pile of fortune cookie wisdom there...
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Nah, man, that is the real essence of it. In many aspects of my life what worked for me then does not fit today. Very few things in life have proven to be final purchases. About the only thing I can say for sure has been such a thing have been high quality tools.
 
Lee Newman said:
I would too but I have a feeling my wife will draw the line at multiple thousand dollar sets. Lol. When and if I ever get around to upgrading the table, I may just hold onto the U-turn and slap something precise on there for classical music.
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That's what I did with some of the components, along with flipping to fund the new stuff ;)
 
AnthonyI said:
Funny you mention that, I've been weighing out the options of a CD transport to a Network player for the future, not an easy thing. I think cost might come into play, but as of yet, they seem kind of neck and neck.
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Honestly, and I say this as someone who loves his CD player and piles of CDs, I’d not go near a CD transport if I didn’t already have a collection. I’d go hi res streaming on something with a hard drive (or Roon with a NUC as a ROCK core if you want to go all in) and stream but with a bit of space. That way if you do get a CD in a bargain bin you can rip it on a computer, network transfer it to the HD and the disc is irrelevant again.
 
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