Definitive Audiophile pressings

Lee Newman said:
There's what @JonnyH says here, but also that Fremer says those others don't sound very good. I have the Who's Next it is pretty compressed, but it ain't a bad pressing. This may be what he is actually railing against. I've only heard the rerecording of Closing Time which isn't a bad pressing, it's just not the album I know, if you know what I mean.

It is an interesting point and JonnyH opens up an old thing I have held. The artists are sometimes behind these remasters we don't think much of, so who are we to say what they wanted and didn't want (I'm specifically thinking of the Stones here. The Bowie stuff to a lesser extant with Visconti behind changes made here and there).

I mean the Shades of Blue BN reissue is a perfect example of where that oversight can be off.

I also know that Gray likes to use the notes, so who knows what they wanted here. Maybe someone did fuck the og master up. I certainly don't know.

I'm more concerned that there is not a lot of thought put into the vinyl mix of things sometimes. This is an oversite issue, but actual more prevalent and also of a different mechanism then what he is talking about. There was oversite by the band and producer of Black Crow's Southern Harmony and Musical Companion and the digital sounds great, but the vinyl is meh because no one had the insight to go "HEY THIS IS TOO MUCH FOR ONE SLAB."
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I agree with Fremer. There is far, far too much 'prettying up for fine dining' in the world of audiophile vinyl. KPG is just as guilty, or more, of turning a punkish record into easy listening, RKS can do this too.

They know the audience and know what they want. Sound.

No one fucks up the OG master, or rarely. The artist receives a TP and approves it, and often is involved in mastering. If not, the producer sure is. That is the sound they want, to represent the art.

Certainly sound can be improved. Joe Harley does that - he improves the sound but doesn't take away from the artist intentions. KPG's mastering chain is far superior to what 99% of OG's were mastered on.

I said in another post several days ago - KPG, RKS, BG, et. al. rarely listen to an OG. But in the case of Television, and I'm sure plenty of others, KPG didn't even know the music. How can you master if you don't know the music??

Only if you simply master for glorious, smooth, nice polite sound that ticks the audiophile boxes.

But Tom Verlaine never cnsidered Television polite. This ain't the opera.
 
KG has stated on a few YT videos that he doesn't refer to old notes even when recutting the same title. He likes to treat each as a new job.

However, I would hope that Rhino is making sure they get him an original album copy to reference when he remasters these albums and also listens to the test pressing before going in to production. Comparing a Tone Poet to a Rock album mastering really is not a fair comparison IMO.
 
RHANDMJ said:
I agree with Fremer. There is far, far too much 'prettying up for fine dining' in the world of audiophile vinyl. KPG is just as guilty, or more, of turning a punkish record into easy listening, RKS can do this too.

They know the audience and know what they want. Sound.

No one fucks up the OG master, or rarely. The artist receives a TP and approves it, and often is involved in mastering. If not, the producer sure is. That is the sound they want, to represent the art.

Certainly sound can be improved. Joe Harley does that - he improves the sound but doesn't take away from the artist intentions. KPG's mastering chain is far superior to what 99% of OG's were mastered on.

I said in another post several days ago - KPG, RKS, BG, et. al. rarely listen to an OG. But in the case of Television, and I'm sure plenty of others, KPG didn't even know the music. How can you master if you don't know the music??

Only if you simply master for glorious, smooth, nice polite sound that ticks the audiophile boxes.

But Tom Verlaine never cnsidered Television polite. This ain't the opera.
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KPG does tailor his stuff from time to time though. His Tres Hombres is pretty spectacular.

I don't have any BG I dislike. I don't have any KPG I dislike, maybe this will be the first. But I also suspected that I wouldn't like his mastering on Shades of Blue so I hopped at the VMP instead knowing that the folks they have been using would look at it as a hip hop album instead of a jazz album. That worked out in my favor.

Even though I thought RKS was the wrong choice for Sabbath, I bought it any how after everyone talked about how great ZZ Top was. Sure enough, it's an audiophile release and it really shouldn't be. So I agree with you guys to an extent as well. Interpretations can be interesting though... I really like RKS in country for general and he smoothed the hell out of Jolene, but I actually like it better than the OG mix as that always sounded harsh to me...

So YMMV and all that.
 
Jbraswell said:
Quote from KG on Marquee Moon cut:

Mazzy: “Did you have to do a lot with this?”

Kevin: “No, no. I back off the upper midrange just a tad and I added a very small amount of bass”


Not a wild speculation that Fremer is making an ass of himself again.
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I mean, I don't know until I hear it. Television seemed like a pretty weird choice for audiophile (but then I think Ziggy Stardust is a weird album to do all audiophile as well. But I do have a nice audiophile version of Electric Warrior that I love🤷‍♀️)
 
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Lee Newman said:
I mean, I don't know until I hear it. Television seemed like a pretty weird choice for audiophile (but then I think Ziggy Stardust is a weird album to do all audiophile as well. But I do have a nice audiophile version of Electric Warrior that I love🤷‍♀️)🤷‍♀
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Yeah it is an odd choice but sometimes that's what draws in folks, who never heard the album to begin with. A chance to hear something new even if it is old.
I'm still on the fence but kind of really want the Ornette copy anyway.
 
Jbraswell said:
KG has stated on a few YT videos that he doesn't refer to old notes even when recutting the same title. He likes to treat each as a new job.

However, I would hope that Rhino is making sure they get him an original album copy to reference when he remasters these albums and also listens to the test pressing before going in to production. Comparing a Tone Poet to a Rock album mastering really is not a fair comparison IMO.
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Seriously? Rhino don't have an OG, and even if they did, they aren't paying a mastering engineer extra to listen to one.

Mastering engineers do not get TP's. The paying customer does - the label.
 
RHANDMJ said:
Seriously? Rhino don't have an OG, and even if they did, they aren't paying a mastering engineer extra to listen to one.

Mastering engineers do not get TP's. The paying customer does - the label.
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KG has said he requests originals always before remastering an album.
Now how many times the label answers the request, no one knows.
It's 40 mins, let's be realistic.
 
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Jbraswell said:
KG has said he request originals always before remastering an album.
Now how many times the label answers the request, no one knows.
It's 40 mins, let's be realistic.
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Yet, he says he does not bother with any previous notes and likes to take each project fresh.

Major labels won't have copies of original pressings. And if they do have archives - labels like CBS did - they won't let them out.

40 minutes - that's an extra hour of mastering time. No, for most jobs, the labels won't pay that. Labels are run by suits and beancounters. The product, to them, is a commodity. They won't pay anything more that doesn't have a cost/return ratio.
 
RHANDMJ said:
Yet, he says he does not bother with any previous notes and likes to take each project fresh.

Major labels won't have copies of original pressings. And if they do have archives - labels like CBS did - they won't let them out.

40 minutes - that's an extra hour of mastering time. No, for most jobs, the labels won't pay that. Labels are run by suits and beancounters. The product, to them, is a commodity. They won't pay anything more that doesn't have a cost/return ratio.
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Yeah I don't speak in absolutes or over arching generalities.
Each remaster is it's own project.
I think mastering is in the sub $1K cost.
This is peanut money considering the bigger picture and the critical role it plays.
 
Jbraswell said:
Yeah I don't speak in absolutes or over arching generalities.
Each remaster is it's own project.
I think mastering is in the sub $1K cost.
This is peanut money considering the bigger picture and the critical role it plays.
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LOL. Mastering, KPG at least, $350/hr plus $350 per 12" side.

Peanut money? This is an industry that often won't pay 0.02 cents more for a poly lined inner sleeve.

I'm not talking without knowledge, having been inside the industry. Universal, as one, doesn't give a soft shit about mastering, and the bigger picture is maximizing the year end bonus.

It's up to the producer to justify every penny. If the producer cares, or knows. For 'audiophile' vinyl, they only care because the audience, limited as it is, demands it.
 
RHANDMJ said:
How can you master if you don't know the music??
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I think you maybe mean "remaster"? It's not as if when Sterling mastered this album in 77' they were involved in the studio production of the master. Sure the band had say but we've seen examples of that time and time again not being a positive thing.

I don't really think any mastering engineer needs to "know the music" at least not in its initial production, but they do know the Master Tape and perhaps the artist putting it out.

I'm of personal belief you don't need the artist involved if you're a competent engineer, and Kevin's probably the best in that respect. Only listening to an Original and this reissue will give you that answer.
 
Well my Japanese OG Around the World In A Day beats the pants off KG remaster, more attitude more dancing, sometimes the remaster might sound cleaner or more audiophile but doesn’t have the same “vibe”, I’m finding this a lot with recent remasters compared to Originals (even though a US pressing of ATWIAD would actually be the OG, I haven’t heard that but the JP version is fantastic)
 
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