HayesWeighsIn
Well-Known Member
Getting close to fully broken in on this Platinum3, and it feels and sounds like home again. Everything I was hoping it would be. 3rd gen Grado across the board really is awesome.
Phono Cartridges - Your favorites and least favorites?
- Thread starter imajindat
- Start date
Angsty
Well-Known Member
Grados and VPIs have a lovefest. Glad to hear it’s working out for you!
Had a lot of fun last couple of days playing around with loading and gain for my Hana SL on my Sutherland. What a difference finding the sweet spot on those settings make man, wow. I feel like it’s one of the things you don’t think to fiddle with or explore until your system hits a certain degree of “revealing” but I was able to very noticeably refine the sound with the right combination!
For now I’ve settled on 47k loading and 55db of gain. 47k seemed to really loosen up the sound for whatever reason, maybe at the expense of things feeling a hair less focused but also at the benefit of things feeling a bit less bright up top? I noticed then that in points it felt like my audio was hitting a ceiling with high vocal extensions, so I dropped the gain to 55db and suddenly it feels like those vocal extensions into upper registers can stretch their legs.
Am I crazy, is this all placebo? Will probably play around a bit more with 1000ohms and 55db since I haven’t tried that yet, but feeling pretty good where I’m at!
For now I’ve settled on 47k loading and 55db of gain. 47k seemed to really loosen up the sound for whatever reason, maybe at the expense of things feeling a hair less focused but also at the benefit of things feeling a bit less bright up top? I noticed then that in points it felt like my audio was hitting a ceiling with high vocal extensions, so I dropped the gain to 55db and suddenly it feels like those vocal extensions into upper registers can stretch their legs.
Am I crazy, is this all placebo? Will probably play around a bit more with 1000ohms and 55db since I haven’t tried that yet, but feeling pretty good where I’m at!
Angsty
Well-Known Member
What did you get at 10,000 ohms? It’s an unusual loading that I think only the Insight has among the Sutherlands currently in production.
I can tell you what I got at 47,000 ohms
Angsty
Well-Known Member
I’m glad that extra zero reappeared!
Once again, I'm such an idiot.I’m glad that extra zero reappeared!
Angsty
Well-Known Member
The biggest reason in theory to keep MC loading low (say under 1000 ohms) is to prevent RF resonance within the phonostage. With high loading and high capacitance, you may see a resonance peak beyond the 1 MHz range. That’s far beyond hearing but it could cause problems elsewhere in your system, particularly if your amp can actually reach the MHz range. In practice, not all systems propagate those resonances.
Some phono designers have said that about 100 ohms is ideal to damp RF resonance in MC systems. That may be why the old receivers in the day only had fixed 100 ohm MC inputs, if they had them at all.
After my accidental 47,000 ohms setup vs the recommended 470+ it's really interesting that literally one day later you're finding yourself on the same setting. I actually didn't find it that bad at 47k ohms on my setup, it was dynamic AF but there was too much sizzle in the highs and the bass was kinda out of control, likely due to the resonance issue mentioned above. Looks like the Hana SL recommended loading is 400+ so I'm interested as to whether you tried that setting at all yet?
How can I understand "resonance peak"? What would that sound like? This is all wonderful information, really appreciate your in depth insight on this stuff. Its a whole new world for me!
I've thought the same hahah, it seems we're both problem solving around a similar audio issue and its interesting that different combinations can work in opposite ways for different systems. I would love to try 400/470 like you've been able to but my Insight jumps from 200ohms to 1000 so its one of the two! 200ohms for some reason made my sound feel canned up and 1000 has oddly enough felt like its had a bit less upper register extension and actually more sizzle as you put it. That being said, I haven't tried 1000, 200, 100 or 10,000ohms with 55db of gain yet. All those were tried at 60db and I found 47k to play best with 60db and now I like it even more at 55db, but perhaps I may like the other options more! I'm going to try those out today.
I didn't spend much time there, but will give it some more listening today!
Feel like I got a controversial question:
Is some degree of IGD unavoidable on crowded records with little deadwax, even with the best stylus/cart? Or do some of you guys live with absolutely zero IGD on 100% of your records?
Is some degree of IGD unavoidable on crowded records with little deadwax, even with the best stylus/cart? Or do some of you guys live with absolutely zero IGD on 100% of your records?
Pretty much gets worse with too much music on a side and no chance you can be 100% free of it, it’s definitely baked into some pressings leaving micro adjustments in set up to be kinda be irrelevant.
kvetcha
Well-Known Member
There will always be increased distortion on inner grooves due to there simply being less groove length per second, but this distortion can certainly be made worse by additional distortion due to tonearm alignment, tonearm length, etc. Best you can do is minimize the distortion due to alignment. Then you're stuck with whatever's pressed into the record.
I use the Lofgren A alignment and experience practically zero IGD even with records I know to have been played way more than 20 times. Great cartridge setup is imperative to best groove tracing. I credit much of the accuracy to the WallyTractor alignment tool. To me, it's definitely worth the money.
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I’ve not been fighting IGD, but I have been fighting sibilance on a few discs. I’ve tried 3 different cartridges with 3 different stylus profiles. All had sibilance with the problem discs. All were aligned absolutely perfectly.
I’ve been sent a cartridge for evaluation and it has sailed right through these LPs with no problems whatsoever. Stay tuned.
If you're getting bad IGD on every record, then you probably have an alignment problem. If you're just noticing it on some really crowded records then it is what it is, you can probably minimize it but I wouldn't sweat it.
Jbraswell
Well-Known Member
I can run this AAA extremely dynamic pressing without any IGD.
I've never seen a thinner dead wax.
I've never seen a thinner dead wax.
Yeah its the latter. Last 30 seconds to a minute of a half of a record with little deadwax feel like theres a little sizzle/fuzz up top, some are worse than others.
Well spaced out records have no IGD whatsoever and sound phenomenal. I think I've been assuming that IGD is something that shouldn't exist if your system is set up right, now I'm realizing that may not be the case. Although my guy @HiFi Guy may have a silver bullet
Good LORD! Out with your secret then!