R.I.P. VMP Forum

LG&M said:
I won a Crosley at a holiday party in 2016. Now I have a legit vinyl habit a (slightly) better setup and am passing down the Crosley to my kids so they can join in the fun with some dollar bin records they can pick out. Everyone has gotta start somewhere...

I remember getting a VMP membership as a gift that year and finding the old place soon thereafter. Not sure I would have hung around if casual scorn of people like me was as prevalent as I’ve seen around here the last couple weeks. Sure, maybe VMP is focused more on a certain demographic that isn’t so sensitive to price/quality issues. Maybe we can make that point without being so derisive about those people?
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Honestly, there was plenty of Crosley derision on the VMP forum from time to time--it kind of ebbed and flowed as I imagine it will here. Someone even posted a video of destroying a Crosley once (blowing it up? Throwing from a great height? I don't remember clearly). Ultimately you're going to encounter that attitude in any record community from time to time. It's too bad, because they totally make sense as gateway turntables: they're cute, affordable, and fit easily into just about any room. It's difficult to wade through all of the options and opinions when a person is just starting out, and Crosleys are widely available. But I do also understand why people get frustrated by companyies like VMP promoting them--they aren't good for your records, and as long as they're the go-to promo turntable, a lot of young or new vinyl enthusiasts will never even consider a need to research turntables, let alone buy something else. They'll pick up the one that looks like the cool pictures from the cool record clubs, and potentially damage their expensive records before they're deep enough into the hobby to learn otherwise.

I will say that a lot of the people rolling their eyes at VMP's advertising here are the same folks who gently encouraged affordable upgrades to newbies without any trace of condescension or mockery. I hope that as things settle down here that motivation of helping people get the most out of their records and music will be the dominant attitude. Everyone starts somewhere. Let's not let our disdain for certain companies bleed into how we treat people.

And I had a Crosley suitcase player when I resumed my vinyl listening. I knew they weren't great for records, but I've always basically embraced entropy and wabi-sabi. I too kept it for my kiddo. Music is for everyone! Records are for everyone! Yay!
 
GritNGlitter said:
Honestly, there was plenty of Crosley derision on the VMP forum from time to time--it kind of ebbed and flowed as I imagine it will here. Someone even posted a video of destroying a Crosley once (blowing it up? Throwing from a great height? I don't remember clearly). Ultimately you're going to encounter that attitude in any record community from time to time. It's too bad, because they totally make sense as gateway turntables: they're cute, affordable, and fit easily into just about any room. It's difficult to wade through all of the options and opinions when a person is just starting out, and Crosleys are widely available. But I do also understand why people get frustrated by companyies like VMP promoting them--they aren't good for your records, and as long as they're the go-to promo turntable, a lot of young or new vinyl enthusiasts will never even consider a need to research turntables, let alone buy something else. They'll pick up the one that looks like the cool pictures from the cool record clubs, and potentially damage their expensive records before they're deep enough into the hobby to learn otherwise.

I will say that a lot of the people rolling their eyes at VMP's advertising here are the same folks who gently encouraged affordable upgrades to newbies without any trace of condescension or mockery. I hope that as things settle down here that motivation of helping people get the most out of theirrecords and music will be the dominant attitude. Everyone starts somewhere. Let's not let our disdain for certain companies bleed into how we treat people.

And I had a Crosley suitcase player when I resumed my vinyl listening. I knew they weren't great for records, but I've always basically embraced entropy and wabi-sabi. I too kept it for my kiddo. Music is for everyone! Records are for everyone! Yay!
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Who needs Wabi-Sabi when you can get down with Mono no Aware?
 
GritNGlitter said:
Honestly, there was plenty of Crosley derision on the VMP forum from time to time--it kind of ebbed and flowed as I imagine it will here. Someone even posted a video of destroying a Crosley once (blowing it up? Throwing from a great height? I don't remember clearly). Ultimately you're going to encounter that attitude in any record community from time to time. It's too bad, because they totally make sense as gateway turntables: they're cute, affordable, and fit easily into just about any room. It's difficult to wade through all of the options and opinions when a person is just starting out, and Crosleys are widely available. But I do also understand why people get frustrated by companyies like VMP promoting them--they aren't good for your records, and as long as they're the go-to promo turntable, a lot of young or new vinyl enthusiasts will never even consider a need to research turntables, let alone buy something else. They'll pick up the one that looks like the cool pictures from the cool record clubs, and potentially damage their expensive records before they're deep enough into the hobby to learn otherwise.

I will say that a lot of the people rolling their eyes at VMP's advertising here are the same folks who gently encouraged affordable upgrades to newbies without any trace of condescension or mockery. I hope that as things settle down here that motivation of helping people get the most out of their records and music will be the dominant attitude. Everyone starts somewhere. Let's not let our disdain for certain companies bleed into how we treat people.

And I had a Crosley suitcase player when I resumed my vinyl listening. I knew they weren't great for records, but I've always basically embraced entropy and wabi-sabi. I too kept it for my kiddo. Music is for everyone! Records are for everyone! Yay!
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I guess we see it differently. People buy Cosleys because they are cheap, and vinyl is "in".

As we all know, vinyl isn't an inexpensive hobby. I'm not talking gear- I mean the albums themselves.

Not only is a Crosley really bad for your records, but it sounds really bad too. It may have been a gateway for you, but I'm sure many who own them lose interest in favor of CDs or digital downloads. Compared to vinyl via a Crosley, digital is far less expensive, more convenient and sounds better. And this comes from someone who only listens to digital sources in the car.

Moving to even a well thought out budget component system is a game changer though.
 
HiFi Guy said:
I guess we see it differently. People buy Cosleys because they are cheap, and vinyl is "in".

As we all know, vinyl isn't an inexpensive hobby. I'm not talking gear- I mean the albums themselves.

Not only is a Crosley really bad for your records, but it sounds really bad too. It may have been a gateway for you, but I'm sure many who own them lose interest in favor of CDs or digital downloads. Compared to vinyl via a Crosley, digital is far less expensive, more convenient and sounds better. And this comes from someone who only listens to digital sources in the car.

Moving to even a well thought out budget component system is a game changer though.
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what are your thoughts on LP60's?
 
Count_Vader said:
what are your thoughts on LP60's?
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I try to ignore their existence. I get budgets and all but.....no. The $199 Fluance is an infinitely better choice.

Because I don't want to come off like a snob (because I'm not as those who have met me can attest) I generally avoid any discussion involving the LP-60. You asked a direct question so....
 
HiFi Guy said:
I try to ignore their existence. I get budgets and all but.....no. The $199 Fluance is an infinitely better choice.

Because I don't want to come off like a snob (because I'm not as those who have met me can attest) I generally avoid any discussion involving the LP-60. You asked a direct question so....
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*pops popcorn and grabs a seat*
 
HiFi Guy said:
I try to ignore their existence. I get budgets and all but.....no. The $199 Fluance is an infinitely better choice.

Because I don't want to come off like a snob (because I'm not as those who have met me can attest) I generally avoid any discussion involving the LP-60. You asked a direct question so....
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That seems like an awful lot of words to say “they’re trash.”
 
HiFi Guy said:
I guess we see it differently. People buy Cosleys because they are cheap, and vinyl is "in".

As we all know, vinyl isn't an inexpensive hobby. I'm not talking gear- I mean the albums themselves.

Not only is a Crosley really bad for your records, but it sounds really bad too. It may have been a gateway for you, but I'm sure many who own them lose interest in favor of CDs or digital downloads. Compared to vinyl via a Crosley, digital is far less expensive, more convenient and sounds better. And this comes from someone who only listens to digital sources in the car.

Moving to even a well thought out budget component system is a game changer though.
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"They're cheap and vinyl is in" is just more succinct. I don't disagree with you, I just don't think it serves to be dismissive of the people who start out with them for lack of other option or knowledge.

But it wasn't my gateway, I said it's a gateway for many. I picked one up because I didn't care that it would be bad for my records in the short term, it was cheap (I wasn't buying albums at the time, just trying to listen to a handful of records), and it fit in my tiny apartment (ie I could move it and stash it under my work desk during the day).

(I know you'll never understand people who don't notice or care about sound quality, so I won't even talk about it, hahaha)
 
GritNGlitter said:
(I know you'll never understand people who don't notice or care about sound quality, so I won't even talk about it, hahaha)
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I actually envy people who can enjoy music no matter the quality of reproduction. But I'd rather not listen at all than listen to poor quality audio. I've been this way all my life.
 
HiFi Guy said:
I actually envy people who can enjoy music no matter the quality of reproduction. But I'd rather not listen at all than listen to poor quality audio. I've been this way all my life.
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I have had to turn off a show streaming through my old as hell Roku because the compression was so bad and everyone sounded like snakes. I blame you for poisoning my ear with the devil's juice of analogue sources.
 
HiFi Guy said:
My first turntable when I was 12 wasn't all that. Everyone starts somewhere. I just wish that somewhere wasn't the LP60. And that's the nicest way I can put it.
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I bought my daughter one of the TMR branded Jensens which is a essentially a Crosley with a different name. Everyone does have to start somewhere, but I’m not known for mincing words either. My take is that if you have one, cool, welcome to the hobby you can only go up from here. If you haven’t bought one, don’t. Just don’t. I don’t think it’s snobbery to say the truth in that they’re a poorly constructed table that are bad for records. Hell, I’d rate the Crossley higher because it doesn’t pretend to be something it’s not.
 
Chucktshoes said:
I bought my daughter one of the TMR branded Jensens which is a essentially a Crosley with a different name. Everyone does have to start somewhere, but I’m not known for mincing words either. My take is that if you have one, cool, welcome to the hobby you can only go up from here. If you haven’t bought one, don’t. Just don’t. I don’t think it’s snobbery to say the truth in that they’re a poorly constructed table that are bad for records. Hell, I’d rate the Crossley higher because it doesn’t pretend to be something it’s not.
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I want to scream this to my brother in-law who bought an Ion "real wood" turntable. It's awful.
 
HiFi Guy said:
I try to ignore their existence. I get budgets and all but.....no. The $199 Fluance is an infinitely better choice.

Because I don't want to come off like a snob (because I'm not as those who have met me can attest) I generally avoid any discussion involving the LP-60. You asked a direct question so....
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Just wanted to hear your thoughts. I know a lot of people speak of them as a better alternatives to all in ones despite having some of the same issues.
 
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