The NBA Thread

Woob_woob said:
I really wish Lebron teamed up with a good coach just once in his career
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I think Spo is a supremely underrated coach and Bron wanted him fired originally. But outside of that, I'm not entirely sure he wants to be coached. I could only imagine what someone like Pop could do for Bron at this stage in his career.
 
MikeH said:
I think Spo is a supremely underrated coach and Bron wanted him fired originally. But outside of that, I'm not entirely sure he wants to be coached. I could only imagine what someone like Pop could do for Bron at this stage in his career.
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TCell said:
Erik Spoelstra?
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Hes fine, but if you take out the big 3 years hes barely a .500 coach with only 1 playoff series win. That doesnt scream good coach to me. He is the best coach Lebron has ever played for tho by a wide margin
 
sahomerrocks said:
I bet David Blatt would have been a good NBA coach if Lebron didn't run him out of town
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Great Xs and Ox coach. Didn't do a great job of assuaging Lebron's ego, and wasn't the best with the media. Which in the NBA, superstar management and dealing with the media are 2/3rds of the job, so... I was surprised another team didn't give him a chance though.
 
MikeH said:
I think he has pretty regularly overachieved with his roster outside of the Big 3 years.
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Overachieving and being good are different things imo. Good coaches dont miss the playoffs 3 out of 5 years in the NBA, especially in the baby soft East
 
TCell said:
Great Xs and Ox coach. Didn't do a great job of assuaging Lebron's ego, and wasn't the best with the media. Which in the NBA, superstar management and dealing with the media are 2/3rds of the job, so... I was surprised another team didn't give him a chance though.
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Another team didn't give him a chance because he got a rap as a bad coach due to Bron wanting to get his own guy in there. I always though it was pretty unfair how the media treated him and acted like he was a brand new coach who has never achieved anything. He would have been great with a team that was rebuilding like the Wolves/Cavs/Suns/maybe even the Knicks at this point. I know he at least interviewed for the Knicks job, not sure if he interviewed anywhere else.
 
Woob_woob said:
Overachieving and being good are different things imo. Good coaches dont miss the playoffs 3 out of 5 years in the NBA, especially in the baby soft East
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I mean...when your best player is Luol Deng or Whiteside in a contract year, it tends to be difficult to get into the playoffs no matter what conference you're in. He's a good game planner and gets players to overachieve which is a better indicator of coaching when you have a pretty bad roster IMO.
 
TCell said:
Great Xs and Ox coach. Didn't do a great job of assuaging Lebron's ego, and wasn't the best with the media. Which in the NBA, superstar management and dealing with the media are 2/3rds of the job, so... I was surprised another team didn't give him a chance though.
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Yeah the way the league goes now keeping superstars happy is easily the most important thing. Any owner/GM would take Lebron over literally any coach in history. In the playoffs is where a coach can really matter though. LBJ might have one or two more rings if he paired up with some better Xs and Os coaches.
 
My Western Conference predictions in order of seeding (written on 10/21):

TIER 1: Playoff locks

1) Los Angeles Clippers:

They might finish as low as the 4 seed. George is missing at least the first month of the season and Kawhi will likely be load managed. They are also missing a center that is capable of defending the elite 5’s of the NBA. That said, this is virtually the same team that obtained the 8 seed and then sniped a couple of victories away from the Warriors in round 1.

Landry Shamet and Lou Williams will provide a lethal scoring punch from the perimeter to go with Kawhi and George’s elite two-way play. JaMychal Green, Montrezl Herrell and Partick Bererley are all willing to put in the unglamorous dirty work that contribute to winning basketball. This might be the deepest team in the NBAwhich makes me think they can fight for the 1 seed even if George is out until December. And should their stars be healthy come playoff time, they should be the easy favorite to win it all.

2) Denver Nuggets:

The Nuggets were the youngest 2 seed in the history of the NBA last season. The same youthfulness that hindered them in the playoffs provides ample avenues for improvement in the 2019/20 season. Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Malik Beasley and Monte Morris are all a year closer to their prime. Gary Harris and Will Barton both struggled through serious injuries last season that clearly effected their efficiency, 3 point shot and confidence. A return to their previous form would instantly make the Nuggets a substantially better team. Offseason acquisition Jerami Grant provides badly needed rim protection and switchability while ensuring the Nuggets aren’t overly reliant on the aging (but still effective) Paul Milsap.

Nikola Jokic proved that he is one of the 10 best players in the NBA during that playoff run- his averages of 25/13/8.5 were historic in nature- and if the Clippers aren’t the deepest team in the NBA than the Nuggets are. That said, there are still serious questions that the Nuggets must answer in order to be a true contender. Can the electric but often erratic Jamal Murray become a more consistent player and cement himself as a true #2 option alongside Jokic? Will their lack of a clear starting level player at SF result in serious struggles against teams like the Clippers and Lakers? Can Michael Porter Jr. (who was in the conversation for the #1 overall pick in 2018 before a back injury caused him to plummet to the end of the lottery) make a positive impact as a rookie? These are the things that will determine how far Denver can go in the post-season… but regular season success is almost a given.

3) Utah Jazz:

The Jazz formula during the Rudy Gobert era has involved combining an elite defense with a clunky offense that was short on shooting and playmaking. It’s a situation that has left shooting guard Donovan Mitchell overburdened and inefficient even while he has flashed superstar level talent during his first two seasons in the NBA. Enter Mike Conley and Bojan Bogdanovic’.

Mike Conley might be the most underrated player of the past decade. It’s legitimately criminal that the verteran point guard has yet to make an NBA all-star game. He might not quite be the all-NBA level defender that he once was, but he’s still capable of shutting an opposing guard down. The subtraction of Rubio from the court combined with the addition of Conley and a 40% 3 point shooter in Bogdanovic will provide floor spacing that has been non-existent in past seasons. Mitchell will be free to cut around screens and spot up while defenders scramble to close out: his efficiency should sky rocket.

On the other hand, the Jazz are going to be undersized at nearly every position. Their defense will have more holes for Gobert to cover than ever before. The league’s most impactful defender should be capable of picking up the slack, but it may take awhile for the Jazz to figure out how to play together. More importantly, the Jazz bench is rather mediocre. Jeff Green, Ed Davis and Royce O’ Neal are solid but unspectacular. None of the three is a reliable shot maker. Which leaves former lottery pick Emanuel Mudiay as a key wild card- particularly should the injury-prone Conley miss any time. I’m giving them the nod over Houston due to their lethal home court advantage, but that’s presuming their key guys stay healthy.

4) Houston Rockets:

I hate the fit of the Westbook and Harden tandem come playoff time. Or at the end of close games when Westbrook is almost certain to steal shots from Harden while bricking a large chunk of them. Houston’s stars make for the most usage heavy duo of recent memory, and Westbrook’s lack of effort off-ball (and clunky 3 point shot) are well documented. But I also can’t bring myself to question Harden or D’ Antoni.

Westbrook and Harden will both work hard to accommodate their games because they truly want to make it work. I also think Westbrook will benefit from the newfound spacing he will enjoy while playing within Houston’s 3 point heavy offense. Clint Cappella and Eric Gordon are both elite glue guys in their prime, and Daryl Morey has a track record of filling out the outer edges of his roster with capable players. They just better hope that PJ Tucker stays healthy because their big man depth is abysmal.

5) Los Angles Lakers:

Last year the many Lakers fans in my life shit all over me for predicting they would be a 6 seed. Such predictions were based off the fact that GM Rob Pelinka had filled the roster with players who were a) past their prime and b) a questionable fit alongside Lebron. This year, the question is whether there is enough depth to survive any time that Lebron or AD may miss. I actually think that this team should be the favorite to play the Clippers in the Western Conference Finals. The AD / Lebron pick and roll will be borderline unstoppable come playoff time. Teams like Utah and Denver are simply unequipped to stop it.

Yet as underrated as Danny Green is by casual fans, Kuzma is as equally overrated rated. Kyle is going to have to shoot way better than 30% from 3 this season in order to compensate for his piss-poor defense or the fact that he is one of the worst passing forwards in the NBA. Other than Danny and the star duo, this roster is comprised of players who are past their prime (Dwight, Rondo, Bradley) or who are one-way by nature (Kuzma, Cook, Caruso). It adds up to a team who will be lethal in the playoffs (when a team’s bench becomes less important), but may struggle to rack up wins on the nights that their star players are at less than 100%

6) Portland Trailblazers:

It feels disrespectful to have Portland this low after their improbable run to the Western Conference during last years playoffs. CJ and Dame might be the best backcourt duo in the NBA considering Klay Thompson will be rehabbing a torn ACL until at least mid-March, and this is a team that has repeatedly overcome its doubters over the past decade… The questions for this iteration of the Blazers revolve around who exactly is going to play defense while the team awaits center Jusuf Nurkic’s return from a serious leg injury.

GM Neal Olshey brought in the enigmatic Hassan Whiteside to serve as the intern replacement, but he is a player who is known more for his temper-tantrums and stat padding than his defensive presence. Meanwhile, the two players most responsible for Portland’s wing defense over recent seasons (Harkless, Aminu) both left during free agency in what feels like a gamble related to upside. The offensive limitations of Aminu and Harkless had repeatedly proven to be a liability come playoff time and so Olshey decided to open up time for young players like Zach Collins and Anfernee Simons. He also added under achieving wings like Heronja and Bazermore with the hope that the Blazers top-notch coaching staff and a change of scenery could help those players find themselves. It adds up to a roster with a crazy amount of volatility in its potential outcomes despite a history of consistency.
 
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TIER II: Playoff hopefuls

7) Golden State Warriors:

This is not your 70 win 2015-16 Golden State Warriors. Stephen Curry is still in the conversation for the best player in the NBA and Draymond Green is still a defensive force when he is in shape and actually trying, but that’s about all that remains the same. Gone are key bench players like Iggy and Livingston. Gone are former starters (and defensive contributors) Bogut and Barnes. And while D’ Angelo Russell should help replicate the injured Klay Thompson on the offensive end, he will only add to their defensive woes. Looney is a plus player and perhaps Cauley-Stein can be salvaged by Steve Kerr, but that still leaves the Warriors leaning on a stable of players with a track record of being net negatives. Curry is going ball out in an attempt to cement his legacy and shut up the doubters, but any chance at serving as a playoff wild card will require that Curry not miss any time with injuries while keeping his fingers crossed that Klay is at full speed upon his return.

8) San Antonio Spurs:

Aldridge and Derozan are both on the wrong side of 30, the Spurs are overly reliant on the inefficiencies of the mid-range game, (to Pop’s great annoyance) the team lost 3 point sharper shooter Davis Bertans to the Wizards… I understand there are question marks. Yet Popovich is the Bill Belichick of the NBA. He knows how to maximize the strengths of a roster while minimizing its weaknesses.

The Spurs should also benefit from the return of Dejounte Murry from an ACL tear. The lengthy PG is a defensive stalwart and was poised for a breakout season before suffering an unfortunate knee injury prior to start of last season. Derick White should continue building off a post-season performance that caught a lot of eyes, and I expect Lonnie Walker to prove capable of contributing to winning basketball while flashing serious long-term upside. The sum of those parts should be enough to land the Spurs back in the playoffs.

9) Sacramento Kings: I think they will continue building on last season. Hield and Barnes are both quality starters and Marvin Bagley surprised me with his play last season. The Kings late season nose-dive coincided directly with Bagley’s unfortunate injury. Last year’s experiences should mean the Kings are less susceptible to blown 4th quarter leads (which were a habitual problem). But Fox is the key to their ceiling. If he takes another step towards stardom, this team is capable of winning 46 games and stealing the a playoff spot. They’ll be feisty either way.

TIER III: If it all breaks right, you could be an 8 seed

10) Dallas Mavericks: Luka and Portz is an interesting and hyper-talented duo. The problem is that their 3rd best player is arguably Seth Curry. Well, that and the fact that Portzingis is an injury prone 7’ 3" perimeter player who will be playing basketball for the first time in over a year and a half.

11) New Orleans Pelicans:

If Zion were healthy, this team would be listed at #9. Their roster is loaded with young talent (Lonzo, Ingram, Alexander-Walker) and solid veterans (Reddick, Favors). Jrue Holiday is wildly underrated and one of the league’s best two-way players. They will be defensively competent and Zion looked like a Shaq / Barkley hybrid during the pre-season. He also just tore his meniscus and will now be missing the first 25 or so games of the season. The Pelicans would be wise to take their time with his return and utilize that time getting their franchise cornerstone to shed some weight. Which means the playoffs may quickly become an after-thought.

12) Minnesota Timberwolves:

Towns must really wish that Wiggins was never signed to that max contract. Karl is going to be an offensive juggernaut but the talent around him is lacking or too young and raw to be relied upon. I’d put my money on the team trading Robert Covington or Jeff Teague and tanking should they get they right offer.

13) Oklahoma City Thunder:

Should they keep their roster as is, this team could finish as high as the 9 seed— especially now that New Orleans will be without Zion for an extended period of time. And perhaps chasing the playoffs with a team comprised of solid veterans (Gallo, CP3, Adams) and uber talented sophomore Shai Gilgeous-Alexander proves the way to go. OCK is one of the NBA’s smallest markets, and I won’t pretend to know whether the franchise has the stomach for an extended rebuild.

That said, Gallo and Adams are liable to fetch a solid return for a contender that wants to find its Marc Gasol and tip the balance of power among the NBA’s elite. I’m also not sure how long Chris Paul will be willing to toil in mediocrity should either of those players get traded (or in the case of Gallo, hurt). Expect the Thunder to be very competitive in the early portion of the season before transitioning to a blatant tank when the new year flips.

TIER IV: Pure tank sesh

14) Phoenix Suns:

The Phoenix Suns are the only team in the NBA capable of challenging the New York Knicks in their incompetence. Management goes through coaching staffs faster than ABC pumps out new episodes of The Bachelor. The organization has utterly failed at nurturing blue-chip prospects and developing them into winning players. Rubio, Oubre, Saric and Baynes are solid pickups in a vacuum. Ayton and Booker could make for a potent offensive tandem in theory. But the reality is that the Suns should be treated as the anti-Spurs. Failure should be the expectation until proven otherwise.

15) Memphis Grizzlies:

Brandon Clarke, Jaren Jackson Jr. and Ja Morant have the makings of one of the NBA’s best young cores. Hell, Ja might be the favorite for RoTY now that Zion is missing a third of the season. But the West is brutal, the rest of the roster bare (with apologies to Kyle Anderson and Tyus Jones), and the kids have a long way to go before their talents are actualized into wins. They will be fun to watch in bursts while fighting for the worst record in the NBA.

WHO WINS THE WEST: Clippers over Nuggets (based off these seedings), but with Clippers over Lakers as most likely (because the Nuggets would lose to either team if on that side of the bracket).

NOTE: I did not do the East because I don't know the rosters up and down like I do with the West and because all anyone needs to know is that its gonna be the Sixers versus the Bucks in the ECF.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
TIER II: Playoff hopefuls

7) Golden State Warriors:

This is not your 70 win 2015-16 Golden State Warriors. Stephen Curry is still in the conversation for the best player in the NBA and Draymond Green is still a defensive force when he is in shape and actually trying, but that’s about all that remains the same. Gone are key bench players like Iggy and Livingston. Gone are former starters (and defensive contributors) Bogut and Barnes. And while D’ Angelo Russell should help replicate the injured Klay Thompson on the offensive end, he will only add to their defensive woes. Looney is a plus player and perhaps Cauley-Stein can be salvaged by Steve Kerr, but that still leaves the Warriors leaning on a stable of players with a track record of being net negatives. Curry is going ball out in an attempt to cement his legacy and shut up the doubters, but any chance at serving as a playoff wild card will require that Curry not miss any time with injuries while keeping his fingers crossed that Klay is at full speed upon his return.

8) San Antonio Spurs:

Aldridge and Derozan are both on the wrong side of 30, the Spurs are overly reliant on the inefficiencies of the mid-range game, (to Pop’s great annoyance) the team lost 3 point sharper shooter Davis Bertans to the Wizards… I understand there are question marks. Yet Popovich is the Bill Belichick of the NBA. He knows how to maximize the strengths of a roster while minimizing its weaknesses.

The Spurs should also benefit from the return of Dejounte Murry from an ACL tear. The lengthy PG is a defensive stalwart and was poised for a breakout season before suffering an unfortunate knee injury prior to start of last season. Derick White should continue building off a post-season performance that caught a lot of eyes, and I expect Lonnie Walker to prove capable of contributing to winning basketball while flashing serious long-term upside. The sum of those parts should be enough to land the Spurs back in the playoffs.

9) Sacramento Kings: I think they will continue building on last season. Hield and Barnes are both quality starters and Marvin Bagley surprised me with his play last season. The Kings late season nose-dive coincided directly with Bagley’s unfortunate injury. Last year’s experiences should mean the Kings are less susceptible to blown 4th quarter leads (which were a habitual problem). But Fox is the key to their ceiling. If he takes another step towards stardom, this team is capable of winning 46 games and stealing the a playoff spot. They’ll be feisty either way.

TIER III: If it all breaks right, you could be an 8 seed

10) Dallas Mavericks: Luka and Portz is an interesting and hyper-talented duo. The problem is that their 3rd best player is arguably Seth Curry. Well, that and the fact that Portzingis is an injury prone 7’ 3" perimeter player who will be playing basketball for the first time in over a year and a half.

11) New Orleans Pelicans:

If Zion were healthy, this team would be listed at #9. Their roster is loaded with young talent (Lonzo, Ingram, Alexander-Walker) and solid veterans (Reddick, Favors). Jrue Holiday is wildly underrated and one of the league’s best two-way players. They will be defensively competent and Zion looked like a Shaq / Barkley hybrid during the pre-season. He also just tore his meniscus and will now be missing the first 25 or so games of the season. The Pelicans would be wise to take their time with his return and utilize that time getting their franchise cornerstone to shed some weight. Which means the playoffs may quickly become an after-thought.

12) Minnesota Timberwolves:

Towns must really wish that Wiggins was never signed to that max contract. Karl is going to be an offensive juggernaut but the talent around him is lacking or too young and raw to be relied upon. I’d put my money on the team trading Robert Covington or Jeff Teague and tanking should they get they right offer.

13) Oklahoma City Thunder:

Should they keep their roster as is, this team could finish as high as the 9 seed— especially now that New Orleans will be without Zion for an extended period of time. And perhaps chasing the playoffs with a team comprised of solid veterans (Gallo, CP3, Adams) and uber talented sophomore Shai Gilgeous-Alexander proves the way to go. OCK is one of the NBA’s smallest markets, and I won’t pretend to know whether the franchise has the stomach for an extended rebuild.

That said, Gallo and Adams are liable to fetch a solid return for a contender that wants to find its Marc Gasol and tip the balance of power among the NBA’s elite. I’m also not sure how long Chris Paul will be willing to toil in mediocrity should either of those players get traded (or in the case of Gallo, hurt). Expect the Thunder to be very competitive in the early portion of the season before transitioning to a blatant tank when the new year flips.

TIER IV: Pure tank sesh

14) Phoenix Suns:

The Phoenix Suns are the only team in the NBA capable of challenging the New York Knicks in their incompetence. Management goes through coaching staffs faster than ABC pumps out new episodes of The Bachelor. The organization has utterly failed at nurturing blue-chip prospects and developing them into winning players. Rubio, Oubre, Saric and Baynes are solid pickups in a vacuum. Ayton and Booker could make for a potent offensive tandem in theory. But the reality is that the Suns should be treated as the anti-Spurs. Failure should be the expectation until proven otherwise.

15) Memphis Grizzlies:

Brandon Clarke, Jaren Jackson Jr. and Ja Morant have the makings of one of the NBA’s best young cores. Hell, Ja might be the favorite for RoTY now that Zion is missing a third of the season. But the West is brutal, the rest of the roster bare (with apologies to Kyle Anderson and Tyus Jones), and the kids have a long way to go before their talents are actualized into wins. They will be fun to watch in bursts while fighting for the worst record in the NBA.

WHO WINS THE WEST: Clippers over Nuggets (based off these seedings), but with Clippers over Lakers as most likely (because the Nuggets would lose to either team if on that side of the bracket).

NOTE: I did not do the East because I don't know the rosters up and down like I do with the West and because all anyone needs to know is that its gonna be the Sixers versus the Bucks in the ECF.
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The West will be interesting this year. I agree that Clips win it if they can stay remotely healthy but that team is insanely deep, has a great coach and unselfish players. One of my hot takes is that I think the Suns will be better than you predict. They were actually playing defense last night and looked good. Booker has to do less now on offense and Rubio was a really underrated pickup for them. They have a good coach too. I get that it's popular to shit on them (and my Knicks) but I think the Suns look improved this year if they can sustain it and coach gets Booker to buy in on both sides as he did last night. I predict that they end as a 9th or 10th seed this year. I also don't think the Wolves will tank this season--tanking almost guarantees that KAT will want out in the near future (which I guess is the Minnesota special now...) I also don't think the Lakers roster as it stands will be what it is after the trade deadline. They'll try to make moves, just not sure if any will add much since they don't have many assets to trade. I wonder what happens if the Lakers get knocked out early in the playoffs--does AD stay?

The East is going to be a complete toss up this year. I think top 4 teams (in no particular order) will be Raps, Sixers, Bucks and maybe the Nets or Heat? My eastern hot take is that the Nets minus KD are not much better than they were last season. As we saw last night, they can still be beaten even if Kyrie goes off for 50. The Nets were -19 or something when Kyrie was off the floor last night.

As for ROTY, y'all are sleeping on RJ Barrett. The kid is special. He looked great last night. If Zion misses significant time, I think RJ has a shot.
 
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