Believer101
Well-Known Member
Drop your knowledge!
When your out looking at speakers what is the core things you look for in it??
When your out looking at speakers what is the core things you look for in it??
What kind of things do you look for in proper speakers?
- Thread starter Believer101
- Start date
apholden
Active Member
Speakers have enough ability to make or break a system that I recommend giving them a listen before buying. Also ensure the store has a good return policy, especially if it's an online purchase or you can't audition them.
Bring some of your music with you and ask them to play it. The good stores will gladly do so. Walk around the room to get an idea of the sweet spot, as well as how gracefully the sound degrades when you step out of it.
Consider how each range (bass, mid, treble) sounds. Is the volume right? Is the bass pleasant or just boomy. Is the treble harsh? Did they forget the mids? How do voices sound?
Another thing I look for is whether the manufacturer has a "house sound" or whether they just throw anything together for each model. To me, that's a sign they care. As an example, when I was auditioning my Boston Acoustic floorstanding speakers, I A-B tested three different models. I had to walk up to them and rest my hands on top of them to prove the store was actually switching them. Only Nightwish revealed a slight difference in bass range. For Bose, I could listen to one, turn if off, walk across the store to hear another, and instantly hear the difference.
Bring some of your music with you and ask them to play it. The good stores will gladly do so. Walk around the room to get an idea of the sweet spot, as well as how gracefully the sound degrades when you step out of it.
Consider how each range (bass, mid, treble) sounds. Is the volume right? Is the bass pleasant or just boomy. Is the treble harsh? Did they forget the mids? How do voices sound?
Another thing I look for is whether the manufacturer has a "house sound" or whether they just throw anything together for each model. To me, that's a sign they care. As an example, when I was auditioning my Boston Acoustic floorstanding speakers, I A-B tested three different models. I had to walk up to them and rest my hands on top of them to prove the store was actually switching them. Only Nightwish revealed a slight difference in bass range. For Bose, I could listen to one, turn if off, walk across the store to hear another, and instantly hear the difference.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
I second @apholden 's suggestion that you should absolutely listen before buying. My ears aren't really as trained as some to be able to describe what I like in certain speakers, but I tend to like speakers that don't need a separate subwoofer. I listen to a wide variety of music (jazz mostly lately, but also indie rock, hip hop and soul) so I auditioned different types of music for each speaker as well. Some speakers sounded great with jazz but not as good with other genres. I try a mix of vocal and instrumental music as well to get an idea of the speakers' range.
@HiFi Guy might also be a great resource for this convo.
@HiFi Guy might also be a great resource for this convo.
Another two things that helps in narrowing down, because you aren’t going to demo every set of speakers, are reviews and the speakers sensitivity. The less power you have in your amp the more important a more sensitive, and thus efficient speaker is. I use that and reviews from trusted websites, and recommendations from trusted sources on here, to narrow down what I’d like to demo with the dealer.
mondie
New Member
In rough order:
- decide on your budget
- do you want new or secondhand, I would strongly suggest considering the later
- audition as many speakers as you can. It is impossible to replicate the listening environment and since the room is by far the largest sound influencer, this is where choosing speakers is very fraught
- listen to any speaker of interest for at least 20 mins, and if you find something you like, for as long as possible and preferably on more than one occasion
Things I look for in a speaker-
- at least three way
- active
- High Efficiency (HE), say >93dB but preferably >96dB
- minimum 8" bass drivers (but the fun only begins at 12")
These are the four major factors to audio nirvana in my experience and supported by acoustic engineering principles. Budget constraints can make achieving all four difficult and if so, I would look for a passive HE design. HE systems have a life and dynamics that low-efficiency speakers lack.
A great place to start is some classic JBL's, or a hybrid horn system if budget allows
- decide on your budget
- do you want new or secondhand, I would strongly suggest considering the later
- audition as many speakers as you can. It is impossible to replicate the listening environment and since the room is by far the largest sound influencer, this is where choosing speakers is very fraught
- listen to any speaker of interest for at least 20 mins, and if you find something you like, for as long as possible and preferably on more than one occasion
Things I look for in a speaker-
- at least three way
- active
- High Efficiency (HE), say >93dB but preferably >96dB
- minimum 8" bass drivers (but the fun only begins at 12")
These are the four major factors to audio nirvana in my experience and supported by acoustic engineering principles. Budget constraints can make achieving all four difficult and if so, I would look for a passive HE design. HE systems have a life and dynamics that low-efficiency speakers lack.
A great place to start is some classic JBL's, or a hybrid horn system if budget allows
Believer101
Well-Known Member
I always thought JBL was cheap crap speakers.. you saying they are good?
apholden
Active Member
mondie
New Member
JBL has made some of the best speaker systems ever produced. They also make a lot of cheap crap these days much of it coming out of China for mass consumption. JBL has a very proud history.
JBL has some very fine speakers. Also some not so fine models.
Not unlike Klipsch. The Heritage series are very nice. Then there's the rest.
I'm going to jump in here:
- at least three way
The number of drivers in the cabinet have no correlation on sound quality. There are plenty of high performance 2 way speakers. In fact, they have the advantage of having a simpler crossover. The manufacturer can put more money into improving other aspects of the design as opposed to stuffing an extra driver into the cabinet because "you need one". More isn't necessarily better. Sometimes, less is more. Let your ears decide- not your eyes.
- active.
Not a fan, usually. If the amp inside the speaker cabinet goes out, you are out of luck. Also, there's no upgrading- you are stuck with the amp you get. The advantage is that the amp modules are designed for the speakers they are mated to.
- High Efficiency (HE), say >93dB but preferably >96dB
There are plenty of high quality lower efficiency speakers. Magnepan and BBC type monitors come immediately to mind. The trick is to make sure you've got a good amplifier/speaker pairing.
- minimum 8" bass drivers (but the fun only begins at 12")
No hard and fast rule here. A smaller driver can work brilliantly in a smaller room, and a large driver can overpower the same room. The room is going to make a big difference.
HE systems have a life and dynamics that low-efficiency speakers lack.
I own a pair of nice HE passives, so I understand your point. But I've heard lots that suck- I've not heard a pair of Fostex or Lowthers that sound remotely like music. Horrid things they are, IMHO.
Another common setup error is setting the gain too high. Properly integrated subwoofers should be "invisible"- that's to say one shouldn't even notice they are on. They should sound like an extension of the main speakers, not an "add on".
MikeH
Well-Known Member
I mostly don't like them because it's yet another piece/expense and I also live in an apartment without a ton of space and have neighbors that don't necessarily like me having a subwoofer haha. I've always been drawn to speakers without subs though. I currently have KEF R300s and I really like the bass on them as it feels natural to me. Just picked up a pair of KEF 101 reference speakers for a decent price as well for another TT setup I have, so I am curious to hear how those sound.
zombie.modernist
Well-Known Member
IMO speakers are the most debatable part of this hobby. Even those that measure similarly can sound different due to various factors of room interaction. There's a million different design strategies, acoustic suspension or ported? Rear ported or front ported? Full range, or not? Open baffle or box? Horn or dome? Titanium or fabric? It's tiring to even think about where the concrete truth lies is tiring. Objectively speaking any of these design strategies can be utilized to create a product that measures well, so I do think it's an exercise in futility to list these type of assets.
I think finding a set of speakers that mates well with your electronics (or visa versa), your room, and your subjective taste is the best you can ask for. Of course you will find what other priorities you have while searching as well. Personally I want extension below 50hz so I don't feel tempted to need a sub (apartment dweller) and a "neutral" sound signature. To achieve the latter, you could do some frequency sweep measures of the room, but since I have no real desire to use DSP with a vinyl setup and limited range of positioning I just stick with my ears to tell if something is too boomy or too bright.
I think finding a set of speakers that mates well with your electronics (or visa versa), your room, and your subjective taste is the best you can ask for. Of course you will find what other priorities you have while searching as well. Personally I want extension below 50hz so I don't feel tempted to need a sub (apartment dweller) and a "neutral" sound signature. To achieve the latter, you could do some frequency sweep measures of the room, but since I have no real desire to use DSP with a vinyl setup and limited range of positioning I just stick with my ears to tell if something is too boomy or too bright.
mondie
New Member
We have different reference points. My response was answering the questions as laid out by the OP. The science dictates that 4 way is needed so that each driver operates in its linear envelope and avoids beaming, I only said 3 way initially because 4 ways are uncommon. Some of the speakers you mention are far from reference quality. Agreed on bass drivers to a degree hence why I mentioned room importance at the start. I dont see an 8" driver overpowering a room.
For anyone who wants to learn more about the science and is willing to invest the time reading this is a fantastic resource written by an electro-acoustics expert:
Introduction: Greetings and introduction
Welcome to Lenard Audio Education
education.lenardaudio.com
John Burnett has published his lifetime's knowledge and experience to assist music lovers to cut through the pseudo-science, marketing driven modern audio industry.
Cheers
That's part of the fun of this hobby- there's no "right way" to go about most of it. It comes down to personal tastes and preferences. The guy you linked is going to town taking a different route from my own. And that's fine- neither of us are wrong, although I tend to disagree with the thought that there is only one way to musical enjoyment. I don't believe in most hard and fast rules. We all hear differently and have different preferences and goals.
As far as "reference quality" you are correct. My speakers don't qualify. I'm sure their measurements are lacking. That's just fine too- I listen to music, not measurements. Some of the worst sounding components I've ever heard measure extremely well, and some of my favorites that sound wonderful have rather lackluster measurements.
mondie
New Member
Agree with you Hifi guy, this is a hobby and a bit of fun. However, John is talking physics and on that, there is no subjectivity, its either right or wrong. What you like though is your personal choice and is influenced by everything that has come before it, your biases, hearing etc etc. I am not hung up on measurements, they can get you on the right path but don't hold all the answers, our ears are still the absolute reference.
zombie.modernist
Well-Known Member
I agree with your points. I would only reject the site you sent as a single source of authority, just due to the diverse nature of speaker design. Most of the competent brands operating today have done extensive testing of the FR response, electronics and physics of speaker design and and are clearly satisfied with their results, despite taking radically different paths from each other. For instance I'm thinking of something like the JBL LSR 305 which doesn't qualify many of those points but is objectively a very flat monitor used for studio reference. If we're just talking pure numbers, JBL has got it covered with those, by taking their own design path. IMO with speaker design, there are many ways to skin a cat. And of course not everyone wants flat or accurate gear in the first place.
apholden
Active Member
Agreed with @HiFi Guy and stating it more strongly. The main purpose of the numbers is for the advertisers to offer some kind of ridiculous "proof" that their stuff is quantifiably "better" than the competition. The numbers were measured in a "lab," also known as a custom room that makes those speakers measure as well as possible while simultaneously making and competitors' speakers measure as badly as possible, playing a track that unfairly advantages their speakers, using instruments specifically calibrated to their speakers. Ignore the numbers. They're bullshit at best and a bald-faced lie at worst.
At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that your music sounds good on your system, in your house, to you.
Audition the speakers in store, if possible, to figure out everything except your house. As soon as you get them home, play the crap out of them using a wide variety of your music and be ready to return them if they fail in their new home.
At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that your music sounds good on your system, in your house, to you.
Audition the speakers in store, if possible, to figure out everything except your house. As soon as you get them home, play the crap out of them using a wide variety of your music and be ready to return them if they fail in their new home.
I'll also stress that you bring your own music. First, you'll be guaranteed to find something that you like easier than relying on whatever the store/salesperson has, although some stores will hand you an iPad with Tidal so you can find whatever you want.
Also when I was on the business, some manufacturers would supply free demo discs to the salespeople. We discovered that one manufacturer supplied discs that were equalized to make their speakers sound better and the competition to sound worse. A retail CD would show the same manufacturer had the worst sounding speakers in the store. In fact, we only carried the brand so we could say we were a dealer when people called. They'd come in because they knew the brand and thought they were good. This brand had (and still has) huge brand recognition. I don't think any of us actually sold a pair.
Also when I was on the business, some manufacturers would supply free demo discs to the salespeople. We discovered that one manufacturer supplied discs that were equalized to make their speakers sound better and the competition to sound worse. A retail CD would show the same manufacturer had the worst sounding speakers in the store. In fact, we only carried the brand so we could say we were a dealer when people called. They'd come in because they knew the brand and thought they were good. This brand had (and still has) huge brand recognition. I don't think any of us actually sold a pair.
apholden
Active Member
Sounds like your customers figured out they would be Better Off with Something Else, which, of course, you had!