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I think the biggest thing on an editorial level for VMP that I've struggled with is the sense of cultural appropriation of artists of color. unintentional or not, theres something that hasnt sat well with me about having some random white guy tell me this hip hop artist or lost 70s singer has value, or now has value because its deemed "essential" so many years later by a white person, and i say this full well knowing that im a cis white male. its a tough balancing act because theres a lot of wonderful artists I would have never have heard of if it wasnt for VMP, or pitchfork for that matter, but theres something that just feels inherently forced and fake about reading a lost jazz albums of the 70s article written by a 25 year old white dude from the midwest.
This is not cultural appropriation. Appreciation of music defies boundaries. A white dude from the Midwest can give his take and as long as he isn’t presenting himself as something he’s not there is no reason to assume anything is invalid about his criticism.

You can make the case for diversity and obviously people of different backgrounds are going to have different perspectives. If you think more of a voice should be given to different perspectives that is always a valid criticism.

But cultural appropriation it ain’t.
 
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I think the biggest thing on an editorial level for VMP that I've struggled with is the sense of cultural appropriation of artists of color. unintentional or not, theres something that hasnt sat well with me about having some random white guy tell me this hip hop artist or lost 70s singer has value, or now has value because its deemed "essential" so many years later by a white person, and i say this full well knowing that im a cis white male. its a tough balancing act because theres a lot of wonderful artists I would have never have heard of if it wasnt for VMP, or pitchfork for that matter, but theres something that just feels inherently forced and fake about reading a lost jazz albums of the 70s article written by a 25 year old white dude from the midwest.

Music journalism has always been like this, dude- don't really understand where you're going with this one.
 
I think the biggest thing on an editorial level for VMP that I've struggled with is the sense of cultural appropriation of artists of color. unintentional or not, theres something that hasnt sat well with me about having some random white guy tell me this hip hop artist or lost 70s singer has value, or now has value because its deemed "essential" so many years later by a white person, and i say this full well knowing that im a cis white male. its a tough balancing act because theres a lot of wonderful artists I would have never have heard of if it wasnt for VMP, or pitchfork for that matter, but theres something that just feels inherently forced and fake about reading a lost jazz albums of the 70s article written by a 25 year old white dude from the midwest.
I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking your opinion, but I really don't think that is the case here.

Cultural appropriation would be taking it as their own. All they are doing are putting it on display for people to appreciate it like they do. If anything, they are helping these cultures by keeping their culture alive through music.
 
I think the biggest thing on an editorial level for VMP that I've struggled with is the sense of cultural appropriation of artists of color. unintentional or not, theres something that hasnt sat well with me about having some random white guy tell me this hip hop artist or lost 70s singer has value, or now has value because its deemed "essential" so many years later by a white person, and i say this full well knowing that im a cis white male. its a tough balancing act because theres a lot of wonderful artists I would have never have heard of if it wasnt for VMP, or pitchfork for that matter, but theres something that just feels inherently forced and fake about reading a lost jazz albums of the 70s article written by a 25 year old white dude from the midwest.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and as a poc I am quick to notice and call it out. I wouldn't call that appropriation though. More like gate-keeping, or the perceived importance of the white gaze. I do think though, that VMP is somewhat progressive in that when they've been called out for the dearth of white artists they were featuring, or the overwhlemingly male-ness of their picks, they've recognized it and improved rather than responding defensively as if the people critiquing were the ones with the problem and not their own biases. That being said, I think they definitely still have lots of room for improvement, especially concerning staffing. But on the flip side, this also speaks to the disappointment I have when I see the response to certain records, which is much more apparent when they artists are poc/non-american/non-english performing. Those are the ones you see the quickest "SWAP!" calls. A lot of the response I saw online to Africa Brasil was really disheartening to me.
 
AKA the good old days.

Don’t take this as shitting on pop music either. I just like Alternative/College/Indie in it’s most classic and pretentious sense to have a home/voice and for awhile pitchfork was that (similar to Spin magazine in the 90’s and RollingStone in the 70’s). I get in the corporate homogenized world we live this type of thing is rarely possible anymore. Not everything has appeal to the largest consumer base. It’s okay to have specialized focus.

Also, Pitchfork wouldn’t have given it a negative review back in the day because it wouldn’t have dedicated the page space to a Mariah Carey review in the first place and that is completely okay.
I see where you're coming from. I think it was cool that they dove deeper into those genres than they do today.

But, there were some (rightfully) notoriously terrible reviews back then. Some just dumb and wrong, like the Arab Strap review, some funny trolls like the Jet review, and a some by certain writers that are just pitifully bad writing exercises (White Stripes Elephant is one that sticks with me for some reason). So it's hard for me to say for sure those were the good times. It'd be hilarious to see them have the balls to do something like the JET "review" again though.
 
No I think they’re comically narrow minded in their attempts to be different though...
mmmmmmmmmmm I agree with you on that one Joe! 100% agree with you there! VMP do seem to mostly stick to a particular sound/look when choosing an album to press. That’s why it’s refreshing to get something like Mariah Carey’s “Daydream”!

Mannn, I really wish we were housemates! 😩
 
I completely understand where you're coming from, and as a poc I am quick to notice and call it out. I wouldn't call that appropriation though. More like gate-keeping, or the perceived importance of the white gaze. I do think though, that VMP is somewhat progressive in that when they've been called out for the dearth of white artists they were featuring, or the overwhlemingly male-ness of their picks, they've recognized it and improved rather than responding defensively as if the people critiquing were the ones with the problem and not their own biases. That being said, I think they definitely still have lots of room for improvement, especially concerning staffing. But on the flip side, this also speaks to the disappointment I have when I see the response to certain records, which is much more apparent when they artists are poc/non-american/non-english performing. Those are the ones you see the quickest "SWAP!" calls. A lot of the response I saw online to Africa Brasil was really disheartening to me.
Regarding the "swapping" that is more on the clientele rather than the company though. And I think it says a lot about VMP if they are willing to take some losses (Africa Brasil, Ayalew Mesfin, even Experience Unlimited) for the sake of preserving and sharing music that ought to be listened to.
 
Really? I think pretentiousness is one of the worst qualities anyone can have.

It is possible to be informed, intelligent and considered without veering into that kind of smugness...
I have a hard time with people throwing around the pretentiousness insult because a lot of times it comes from a cynical place. I have friends that basically call everything attempting to be any form of "high art" pretentious, which implies to me that the artist is a phoney and just trying to be arty for the sake of it and isn't genuine. It often seems like a lazy way to criticize and brush something off to me.

I guess I try to give the artist the benefit of the doubt (unless they make it really clear that they are phonies) and then, if I don't like the art, try to actually articulate what I don't like about it in more specific terms.

Not saying you do that or anything, it's just something this conversation made me think of.
 
I see where you're coming from. I think it was cool that they dove deeper into those genres than they do today.

But, there were some (rightfully) notoriously terrible reviews back then. Some just dumb and wrong, like the Arab Strap review, some funny trolls like the Jet review, and a some by certain writers that are just pitifully bad writing exercises (White Stripes Elephant is one that sticks with me for some reason). So it's hard for me to say for sure those were the good times. It's be hilarious to see them have the balls to do something like the JET "review" again though.
It depends what your expectations, some of their reviews were juvenile or poorly written but as long as they actually listened to the music (I am pretty sure one of their writers was canned for writing a review for an album he never listened to, spent the whole review talking in general platitudes and the band/artist called him out on his shit) I don’t mind not agreeing with a review; would rather not agree with a review as opposed to only reading middling reviews about nearly everything as it is now. Was Clap Your Hands Say Yeah a perfect album? Hardly, am I glad that Pitchfork gave them a platform to find a wider audience? Heck yeah! My point is Pitchfork is not infallible and never has been but it used to be a heck of a lot more exciting. Now it’s just more of the sameness and that’s incredibly boring.
 
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I have a hard time with people throwing around the pretentiousness insult because a lot of times it comes from a cynical place. I have friends that basically call everything attempting to be any form of "high art" pretentious, which implies to me that the artist is a phoney and just trying to be arty for the sake of it and isn't genuine. It often seems like a lazy way to criticize and brush something off to me.

I guess I try to give the artist the benefit of the doubt (unless they make it really clear that they are phonies) and then, if I don't like the art, try to actually articulate what I don't like about in more specific terms.

Not saying you do that or anything, it's just something this conversation made me think of.

Pretentious: attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed.

That a horrendous trait regardless of the art being spoke of. I also think that the separation of “high art” and “low art” is toxic and is in itself pretentious...
 
Those are the ones you see the quickest "SWAP!" calls. A lot of the response I saw online to Africa Brasil was really disheartening to me.

I'm ok with the album now, I just didn't think it was essential for me to have on vinyl. I'm starting to take a more critical look at what I'm purchasing and whether or not it is actually worth my money, and Jorge Ben was just not for me, so I swapped.
 
It depends what your expectations, some of their reviews were juvenile or poorly written but as long as they actually listened to the music (I am pretty sure one of their writers was canned for writing a review for an album he never listened to, spent the whole review talking in general platitudes and the band/artist called him out on his shit) I don’t mind not agreeing with a review; would rather not agree with a review as opposed to only giving middling reviews to about everything. Was Clap Your Hands Say Yeah a perfect album? Hardly, am I glad that Pitchfork gave them a platform to find a wider audience? Heck yeah! My point is Pitchfork is not infallible and never has been but it used to be a heck of a lot more exciting. Now it’s just more of the sameness and that’s incredibly boring.
I agree for the most part, but they do tend to get some good writers occasionally still. The scores are definitely less exciting. Seems like almost everything is 6.8-8.3. One of the reasons I said 2.9 in that comment above was to allude to how many reviews they used to give below 3, like 0.7 and stuff like that, which I find kinda funny.
 
They really do have some ignorant clientele. Remember when people were going on and on about Mesfin not sounding "like music" or that it wasn't "sung properly"? Like had those assholes never heard music outside of a white western culture?

I do think VMP's issue with "pretension" philosophically is that they lean way too heavily into the concept of canon which is a form of gatekeeping as discussed above. This is a problem all curration based companies like Criterion collection or literary ones suffer from as well. I think they view picks like Mesfin as a way of "expanding the canon" which completely misses the fact that concepts of canon are completely fictitious BS that have set music like his up to fail by their critical standards.
 
Pretentious: attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed.

That a horrendous trait regardless of the art being spoke of. I also think that the separation of “high art” and “low art” is toxic and is in itself pretentious...
Sure, but the execution of that judgement is incredibly subjective and I believe requires a lot of assumption unless it is made very clear by something the artist or who/whatever said. At least with art. I agree it is a terrible trait, I just think people are too quick to throw the term around just because something is more serious or arty than they like.

That last statement you make is exactly my point and why I put it in quotes. I think the people who go around labeling everything that they perceive as "trying too hard" a pretentious attempt at"high art" (as a pejorative) are indeed the pretentious ones.

Edit: I guess my point of using high art as a pejorative is a little different than the one you are making. I do agree that all high/low art categorizing is bad as well, if that isn't clear.
 
I said 2.9 in that comment above was to allude to how many reviews they used to give below 3, like 0.7 and stuff like that.
Exactly! While I didn’t always agree with their opinions it was refreshing that they actually had a passionate response and defended their opinion

...or this
10803
I am not gonna lie not only did I spit coffee all over my work PC when I first saw that review but I feel like it was the most descriptive representation of their opinion of that album they could’ve provided.
 
Exactly! While I didn’t always agree with their opinions it was refreshing that they actually had a passionate response and defended their opinion

...or this
I am not gonna lie not only did I spit coffee all over my work PC when I first saw that review but I feel like it was the most descriptive representation of their opinion of that album they could’ve provided.
Haha, yeah that's the JET review, right? Or did I remember the wrong band?
 
Sure, but the execution of that judgement is incredibly subjective and I believe requires a lot of assumption unless it is made very clear by something the artist or who/whatever said. At least with art. I agree it is a terrible trait, I just think people are too quick to throw the term around just because something is more serious or arty than they like.

That last statement you make is exactly my point and why I put it in quotes. I think the people who go around labeling everything that they perceive as "trying too hard" a pretentious attempt at"high art" (as a pejorative) are indeed the pretentious ones.

That’s an interesting take. My experience of pretentiousness in music has been people coming up with even more ridiculous excuses as to why something isn’t bad but you just don’t get or understand how important, intelligent, groundbreaking it is or how amazing the musicians are etc etc etc...
 
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