U-Turn Turntables - Discussion, questions and advice.

MattHasIdeas said:
My U-Turn Orbit Theory Experience to Date

Hi all. Brace yourself for a bit of a rant. In May 2017, I got a U-Turn Orbit Custom. The thing was an absolute workhorse. Had a few issues here and there, but the folks at U-Turn were absolutely great about taking care of things. Fast forward to Christmas 2023. My amazing wife surprises me with a U-Turn Orbit Theory, and I am psyched. At this point, I was waiting on the new line of preamps to come out from Darlington Labs (I had an MP7B incoming). I mention this as I was waiting to put the Theory through its paces until I got the new preamp. I got the MP7B at the end of January, and here is where the journey begins.

I started noticing some tracking issues and skips when playing records. I made sure everything was meticulously configured. The surface and turntable was level on all sides. The tonearm/anti skate was balanced per the recommended settings. I tried making slight adjustments to tracking force and antiskate to see if it made a difference. To no avail, I was still experiencing skips, even on records that I've previously had no problems with.

Videos (Google Drive Links):
Danny Brown Skipping
Fleetwood Mac Skipping

I reached out to U-Turn Customer Service, and after some back-and-forth over email, they requested that I send the turntable back for an RMA. They also, graciously, provided a $100 gift card to spend on their website for my troubles. I mailed back the turntable on Feb. 24th. On March 11th, I received the following message via email from Ben Carter (co-founder of U-Turn):

"Thanks for your patience. We've completed your repair and found that this issue was being caused by excessive friction in the tonearm bearings. We looked closely at the stylus and it appears to be in very good condition. We replaced the tonearm bearings to correct the issue, and also upgraded the motor to our most recent version."

On Thursday, I received the Theory back from U-Turn. I was traveling for work, and got back yesterday evening. This afternoon, I set aside time to get the post-repair turntable all set up. To my dismay, I'm now having a different issue where the tonearm is sliding to the right even with zero anti skate. I don't know if this is an issue with tonearm wiring or what. I'd also be quite embarrassed if this is due to some amount of user error, but I don't think that's what it is. See the below video:

U-Turn Orbit Theory Tonearm Issues

I sent a follow-up email to U-Turn Customer Service. At this point, I'm just super disappointed and bummed out. I had very high hopes for this being fairly close to what I'd consider a forever turntable, and I've had nothing but issues since I've gotten it.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. Hope all of you who have the Theory are having a much better go of it than I am.

- Matt
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Hey that sucks. I don’t think what I am getting ready to say should be causing what you are seeing, but when you level the turntable, you want to ensure the plinth is balanced. The platter should level to a certain extent no matter what is going on with the plinth, so it’s important to ensure the plinth is level and then check the platter after. It’s also a lot easier with a tiny bubble level. Like this:
 
Lee Newman said:
Hey that sucks. I don’t think what I am getting ready to say should be causing what you are seeing, but when you level the turntable, you want to ensure the plinth is balanced. The platter should level to a certain extent no matter what is going on with the plinth, so it’s important to ensure the plinth is level and then check the platter after. It’s also a lot easier with a tiny bubble level. Like this:
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IMG_3213.JPGIMG_3214.JPGIMG_3215.JPG
 
So I heard back from U-Turn. Had a conversation with Ben this morning as well. It appears I was mistaken thinking this was caused by anti skate. The responses I got:

"Thanks, I've reviewed everything along with our head engineer. We believe this movement is being caused by residual twist in the tonearm wires from when the tonearm wires were re-soldered during the repair. Please move the tonearm by hand over the spindle and towards the motor until the anti-skate weight won't let you go further (when the anti-skate weight touches the tonearm). Then repeat this 2-3x. Let me know if this seems to resolve the issue.

I do want you to know that the tonearm passed extensive friction and bearing testing after the repair, and the amount of force from the residual twist is not significant from a performance perspective during play (it is very small compared to the anti-skate force). But obviously the movement here is making it very difficult to zero out the arm, and that is a problem."

So... I did this exercise of essentially stretching out the tonearm, and I'm still getting some tonearm drift. However, now it's not so bad that I couldn't zero out the tonearm to calibrate the VTF. I'm also noticing that the motor appears to be a little noisier since they upgraded to this newer one. Haven't had a chance to test any records yet though.

I'm not eligible for a refund as I'm well outside of the 30-day window. The most I can do is essentially send it back in for them to go over everything, making sure all wiring is good. I'm not pleased. Looking for some assurance or guidance from some folks on here who are technically knowledgeable. @HiFi Guy @Mather - Besides "go back in time and get an SL-1500C instead", any advice?

Hmmm it seems to be a common problem with the tonearm drift -- Found this thread https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/u-turn-orbit-theory.1010748/page-4
 
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MattHasIdeas said:
So I heard back from U-Turn. Had a conversation with Ben this morning as well. It appears I was mistaken thinking this was caused by anti skate. The responses I got:

"Thanks, I've reviewed everything along with our head engineer. We believe this movement is being caused by residual twist in the tonearm wires from when the tonearm wires were re-soldered during the repair. Please move the tonearm by hand over the spindle and towards the motor until the anti-skate weight won't let you go further (when the anti-skate weight touches the tonearm). Then repeat this 2-3x. Let me know if this seems to resolve the issue.

I do want you to know that the tonearm passed extensive friction and bearing testing after the repair, and the amount of force from the residual twist is not significant from a performance perspective during play (it is very small compared to the anti-skate force). But obviously the movement here is making it very difficult to zero out the arm, and that is a problem."

So... I did this exercise of essentially stretching out the tonearm, and I'm still getting some tonearm drift. However, now it's not so bad that I couldn't zero out the tonearm to calibrate the VTF. I'm also noticing that the motor appears to be a little noisier since they upgraded to this newer one. Haven't had a chance to test any records yet though.

I'm not eligible for a refund as I'm well outside of the 30-day window. The most I can do is essentially send it back in for them to go over everything, making sure all wiring is good. I'm not pleased. Looking for some assurance or guidance from some folks on here who are technically knowledgeable. @HiFi Guy @Mather - Besides "go back in time and get an SL-1500C instead", any advice?

Hmmm it seems to be a common problem with the tonearm drift -- Found this thread https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/u-turn-orbit-theory.1010748/page-4
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Man I'm not sure that I'm really all that technically knowledgable other than the fact that I've got a lot of gear but if I'm in your situation I make note of the louder motor and the tonearm drift and I send it back to them to look at. I've got projectors and I can't even tell you how many times I've had those things in for repairs or tune-ups just to make sure they're running perfectly. I just bite the bullet and know I'm going to be without for a few weeks and in it goes.

Conversely if you can set the anti skate and the VTF properly then the drift may not even be an issue any more. Might be worth having a listen and seeing if the motor is an issue. If so, off it goes.
 
I know there were problems with the original motor making noise on some units. I don’t know what it’s like with the theory, but with the regular orbit, they could send you a. Motor to replace yourself (I have never had an issue with mine, knock on wood, but I’ve seen scattered reports here and there).
 
So, I've been able to get the tracking force set up and everything aligned. Tested several different records at 33 and 45 rpms, and I'm not seeing any of the tracking issues or skipping that I was seeing initially. Also, regarding the increased motor noise - I got some insight from Ben at U-Turn who shared:
"We replaced the old isolation washer design with silicone isolation grommets, which are more durable and should be as quiet (or quieter) as the previous design. There was also a firmware update on the PCB, which does changes the torque at startup. So it is normal for the motor to be a little louder during the first few seconds while it's getting up to speed due to the firmware change. Is this where you are noticing it?"​

That is exactly what I was hearing, so no concerns there. It was certainly a rocky road, and not my ideal entry point into Theory ownership. However, I'm looking forward to spinning some records on the new rig.
 
MattHasIdeas said:
So, I've been able to get the tracking force set up and everything aligned. Tested several different records at 33 and 45 rpms, and I'm not seeing any of the tracking issues or skipping that I was seeing initially. Also, regarding the increased motor noise - I got some insight from Ben at U-Turn who shared:
"We replaced the old isolation washer design with silicone isolation grommets, which are more durable and should be as quiet (or quieter) as the previous design. There was also a firmware update on the PCB, which does changes the torque at startup. So it is normal for the motor to be a little louder during the first few seconds while it's getting up to speed due to the firmware change. Is this where you are noticing it?"​

That is exactly what I was hearing, so no concerns there. It was certainly a rocky road, and not my ideal entry point into Theory ownership. However, I'm looking forward to spinning some records on the new rig.
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Nice! Glad that all worked out for you. Hopefully with all those upgrades it'll be a solid performer for a long time.
 
MattHasIdeas said:
So, I've been able to get the tracking force set up and everything aligned. Tested several different records at 33 and 45 rpms, and I'm not seeing any of the tracking issues or skipping that I was seeing initially. Also, regarding the increased motor noise - I got some insight from Ben at U-Turn who shared:
"We replaced the old isolation washer design with silicone isolation grommets, which are more durable and should be as quiet (or quieter) as the previous design. There was also a firmware update on the PCB, which does changes the torque at startup. So it is normal for the motor to be a little louder during the first few seconds while it's getting up to speed due to the firmware change. Is this where you are noticing it?"​

That is exactly what I was hearing, so no concerns there. It was certainly a rocky road, and not my ideal entry point into Theory ownership. However, I'm looking forward to spinning some records on the new rig.
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Would be interested in your thoughts in a couple of months as this is a table I am considering for eventual upgrade.
 
So after reading all of this, something else similar but very strange happened to me last night.

I noticed the dust cover was, well dusty, so I took the sleeve of my shirt and gave it a quick couple of wipes. I then put the stylus down to the track I was in the middle of playing before I was interrupted by a kid. Immediately after setting the dust cover back on the plinth, I heard that familiar ripping sound of the stylus being shot across the record (in this case outward). I reset and it happened again... Of course I freaked and thought the same thing as the above discussion had happened. It played fine without the dust cover down so I had to explore more.

I came to the conclusion that I had imparted a shit ton of static to the dust cover while dusting with my shirt. It was probably the same effect of rubbing a PVC pipe with a wool rag if you remember from science class. After zapping the dust cover a few times with the ZeroStat the issues seemed to be resolved. So my question is does this seem feasible? Could I have caused enough static that my cart could have been attracted/repelled enough by the dust cover to cause it to skate across the record?

Thoughts?
 
folsom_lives said:
So after reading all of this, something else similar but very strange happened to me last night.

I noticed the dust cover was, well dusty, so I took the sleeve of my shirt and gave it a quick couple of wipes. I then put the stylus down to the track I was in the middle of playing before I was interrupted by a kid. Immediately after setting the dust cover back on the plinth, I heard that familiar ripping sound of the stylus being shot across the record (in this case outward). I reset and it happened again... Of course I freaked and thought the same thing as the above discussion had happened. It played fine without the dust cover down so I had to explore more.

I came to the conclusion that I had imparted a shit ton of static to the dust cover while dusting with my shirt. It was probably the same effect of rubbing a PVC pipe with a wool rag if you remember from science class. After zapping the dust cover a few times with the ZeroStat the issues seemed to be resolved. So my question is does this seem feasible? Could I have caused enough static that my cart could have been attracted/repelled enough by the dust cover to cause it to skate across the record?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this hypothesis. I feel like the forces involved in vinyl playback are small enough that a sufficient static charge could cause problems, but I dunno if it’s ever been properly tested.
 
So happy that the shelf necessitates me taking the cover completely off and this is not an issue at playback.
 
folsom_lives said:
So after reading all of this, something else similar but very strange happened to me last night.

I noticed the dust cover was, well dusty, so I took the sleeve of my shirt and gave it a quick couple of wipes. I then put the stylus down to the track I was in the middle of playing before I was interrupted by a kid. Immediately after setting the dust cover back on the plinth, I heard that familiar ripping sound of the stylus being shot across the record (in this case outward). I reset and it happened again... Of course I freaked and thought the same thing as the above discussion had happened. It played fine without the dust cover down so I had to explore more.

I came to the conclusion that I had imparted a shit ton of static to the dust cover while dusting with my shirt. It was probably the same effect of rubbing a PVC pipe with a wool rag if you remember from science class. After zapping the dust cover a few times with the ZeroStat the issues seemed to be resolved. So my question is does this seem feasible? Could I have caused enough static that my cart could have been attracted/repelled enough by the dust cover to cause it to skate across the record?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Man… I guess that makes sense? Definitely another reason to leave the cover off during playback, if anything!
 
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