Stylus jumping between tracks

debianlinux

debianlinux

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
3,535
Age
45
Location
Blee Blah Blee
Not just the stylus, the whole headshell assembly. It's particularly bad in the lead in to the 1st track but is quite visible and audible on any run outs between tracks. Once it gets into the music grooves it settles down and seems fine. I think it is jumping forward but i cannot be 100% sure.

Ortofon 2M Red on a Technics SL 1900 set at 1.9g VTF. Just recently started. At first I suspect stylus wear but I have a spare stylus/headshell laying around. Nothing special some old empire but the needle itself is never used. It does the same thing. I've experimented with increasing tracking force and increasing and decreasing anti-skate.

I'm starting to suspect the anti-skate has slipped and needs to be disassembled and re-greased and put back together correctly (the cue action was seized when I procured the table a few years ago). Testing the skating int he run out flat space I'm not seeing any real improvement setting anti skate to max level over it rushing to the center of the record.

I was seriously looking at moving to a Grado Gold 3 but this latest issue is stalling that for sure. Any words of advice or insight much appreciated.
 
debianlinux said:
Not just the stylus, the whole headshell assembly. It's particularly bad in the lead in to the 1st track but is quite visible and audible on any run outs between tracks. Once it gets into the music grooves it settles down and seems fine. I think it is jumping forward but i cannot be 100% sure.

Ortofon 2M Red on a Technics SL 1900 set at 1.9g VTF. Just recently started. At first I suspect stylus wear but I have a spare stylus/headshell laying around. Nothing special some old empire but the needle itself is never used. It does the same thing. I've experimented with increasing tracking force and increasing and decreasing anti-skate.

I'm starting to suspect the anti-skate has slipped and needs to be disassembled and re-greased and put back together correctly (the cue action was seized when I procured the table a few years ago). Testing the skating int he run out flat space I'm not seeing any real improvement setting anti skate to max level over it rushing to the center of the record.

I was seriously looking at moving to a Grado Gold 3 but this latest issue is stalling that for sure. Any words of advice or insight much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Is your platter level?
 
anti-skate seems most likely - it can cause the tonearm to swing a bit if it's too high. are you positive regarding the current VTF?
 
debianlinux said:
Not just the stylus, the whole headshell assembly. It's particularly bad in the lead in to the 1st track but is quite visible and audible on any run outs between tracks. Once it gets into the music grooves it settles down and seems fine. I think it is jumping forward but i cannot be 100% sure.

Ortofon 2M Red on a Technics SL 1900 set at 1.9g VTF. Just recently started. At first I suspect stylus wear but I have a spare stylus/headshell laying around. Nothing special some old empire but the needle itself is never used. It does the same thing. I've experimented with increasing tracking force and increasing and decreasing anti-skate.

I'm starting to suspect the anti-skate has slipped and needs to be disassembled and re-greased and put back together correctly (the cue action was seized when I procured the table a few years ago). Testing the skating int he run out flat space I'm not seeing any real improvement setting anti skate to max level over it rushing to the center of the record.

I was seriously looking at moving to a Grado Gold 3 but this latest issue is stalling that for sure. Any words of advice or insight much appreciated.
Click to expand...

You can try this method to see if it’s an anti skate issue:

cartridge anti-skating | Soundsmith

www.sound-smith.com www.sound-smith.com

If the anti skate spring is stretched out (quite possible given the age of your table) you may have to increase the indicated anti skate on the dial. Just set it as above and don’t worry about the number on the dial. A weak spring won’t allow an accurate reading anyway.

Barring anti skate, another possibility would be dirty and/or worn arm bearings- again possible considering the age of the turntable. This will require a knowledgeable tech to repair.
 
Mather said:
Is your platter level?
Click to expand...
Levelness was the first thing I checked. I had relocated the turntable to a new location and it was not perfectly level (the issue appeard some time later, though). Current solution was to prop the back feet with some playing cards. I measured the cards with calipers and the needed adjustment was 1.6mm. It is level now and the issue persists.
 
HiFi Guy said:
You can try this method to see if it’s an anti skate issue:

cartridge anti-skating | Soundsmith

www.sound-smith.com www.sound-smith.com

If the anti skate spring is stretched out (quite possible given the age of your table) you may have to increase the indicated anti skate on the dial. Just set it as above and don’t worry about the number on the dial. A weak spring won’t allow an accurate reading anyway.

Barring anti skate, another possibility would be dirty and/or worn arm bearings- again possible considering the age of the turntable. This will require a knowledgeable tech to repair.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is what I am referring to. Using the run out area between the grooves the cartridge races towards the spindle faster than the runout grooves would carry it. Maxing the anti skate makes no perceptible difference. Thus, why I am leaning hard on targeting the anti skate mechanism.
 
debianlinux said:
Yes, that is what I am referring to. Using the run out area between the grooves the cartridge races towards the spindle faster than the runout grooves would carry it. Maxing the anti skate makes no perceptible difference. Thus, why I am leaning hard on targeting the anti skate mechanism.
Click to expand...

Your conclusion seems logical.
 
Got some time today to open her up. The anti skate spring does not get engaged at all until the dial is just past 1 (which is a lot of slack). There appears to be about 3/8" of leadout spring that could be crimped to make it engage at 0 and practically be at the same tension currently happening at 3 at just 1.

I've attached pics of 0, just engaged at 1 and maxed at 3. Also a look from the underside at the factory crimp.

My inclination is to put a closer crimp in. A few caveats; I'd prefer to do so without removing the other end as doing that requires taking apart the tonearm assembly. Also, and more to the point, I am looking for some wise words on getting a quality crimp the first time without screwing up the spring. If doing so requires pulling it out I would be willing.

20200425_101614.jpg
20200425_101640.jpg
20200425_101657.jpg
20200425_101557.jpg
 
One oversight in my thinking is that the pics were all taken with the tonearm locked onto the support arm. In fact, as the tonearm swings through it’s full travel the spring is brought with it. With the tone arm swung fully to the other end about 2/3 of the slack of the zero set anti skate spring is taken up.

I am starting to understand more why anti skate is less effective at the outer edge of the record where most people complain about skipping in the first few grooves of a song (edge warps and steep pitched lead ins also contribute I am sure).

Before pulling this apart this morning I did the CD test and the anti skate set at max would just barely hold the stylus in position. If the CD was even barely off center creating any eccentric motion in rotation it would still cause the stylus to move towards center. Anything less than max anti skate caused the stylus to go for center pretty rapidly.

I am torn between trying to add a little extra oomph to my anti skate spring or looking elsewhere for the issue.
 
Well, crimping the spring is not hard at all. It’s a very light spring steel. I used a jeweler’s set of flat faced pliers to hold it and bent it with my fingertip around the jaws to a 90 degree bend. It’s kind of like cutting hair in that you can always crimp it shorter but I’m not sure one could ever flatten enough crimp out for smooth operation if they got it too tight.

I crimped up roughly 1/8”. With the tonearm at rest the spring is engaged at 0.5g on the scale. At full arm travel it engages at what would linearly be zero but on the scale is somewhere about halfway between 0.5g and 0. This means I can still achieve a full zero but hopefully picked up at least another 0.5g of anti skate (probably more because the spring tension is likely not linear towards the end of the range).

Here’s the scale to explain about how zero is farther from 1 than any other number is from its’ neighbor:
3B7FAE24-D3CB-4333-AC3B-D9B04C38AABB.jpeg
 
Oh, well, now my platter doesn’t spin. Everything else seems to work just fine if I manually spin the platter and move the tonearm. The strobe comes on and off as expected. It’s as if no juice ever gets to the motor. There is a slight bump to the platter sometimes. The one thing I may have fucked up was plugging it in before replacing the platter? I am not certain about this. I definitely had the platter off and set VTF first (Much much easier this way because the plinth is just the right height. It is not unthinkable that I plugged in power and then popped on the platter mainly because I specifically didn’t think about it. I think power without platter can burn out the motor?

I am 100% sure I did not have the tonearm back on correctly. I figured out you have to put it on with the arm at the end of travel and then swing it back to engage all the little switches. What this means is the switches were stuck on when I plugged it in platter or no. If no, then yes the motor got power with no platter present for however long it took me to drop the platter on. That said, it’s also very, very possible I did not make this mistake as I dI’d have to go grab a power strip to plug it in and I have enough faith in myself to not have gotten out of order with that series of steps involved.

So the questions are, does power with no platter immediately burn the motor? Is there anything else to check assuming I did not fuck the motor? Pretty upset I just killed my turntable.
 
Last edited:
Without knowing what is fucked I am reticent to throw good money after bad. It seems to me the fault can lie within any of the motor, the power supply, and the control IC. All of the above could be sourced on eBay for about $100. A quarter of the way to a decent replacement table altogether with no real guarantee the parts received wouldn’t also be faulty. Time to go do something else and marinate on this conundrum.
 
Update, I put it all back together to put away and tried it one last time and lo and behold it works now. This is mind boggling because I tested it right before full assembly too. I guess I’ll check the anti skate shortly?
 
I am choosing to believe there was some switch or something that requires the plinth to be on in order for the platter to spin. The first go round with the plinth on the tonearm wasn’t back on just right. Actually, the more I think about it I really think the vinyl gods just observed my sacrifice of anguish and pain and relented for the time being.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top