Rolling Stone - The 200 Greatest Singers of All Time

I'm struggling with this............"Singers".

While everyone on this list is a great artist, am I alone in not really qualifying some of these as "Great Singers"? Not to mention some voices nowhere to be found on the list. It is RS and I've had a love/hate relationship with their journalism for quite some time, lol.

Rolling Stone The 200 Greatest Singers of All Time

I suppose it really is more “vocalists” or “performers” tbh. It’s such a subjective thing, probably more so than any list of say “guitarists” or “bass players”, we all are drawn to different things. These are always really a conversation starter and this one is just a way to say Aretha is awesome, she was always coming top, and that’s fine by me.
 
I mean, I didn't really see anyone who didn't belong. I guess you could argue that Young and Dylan are crap singers, but I think they get on by their performing prowess. I have a slight problem with Rihanna and Usher and anyone else that is primarily studio augmented.
 
I mean, I didn't really see anyone who didn't belong. I guess you could argue that Young and Dylan are crap singers, but I think they get on by their performing prowess. I have a slight problem with Rihanna and Usher and anyone else that is primarily studio augmented.

I’d argue Adele based on 4 so so albums and issue I have with her pitch control is way too high. But you know subjective and all that.
 
I’d argue Adele based on 4 so so albums and issue I have with her pitch control is way too high. But you know subjective and all that.
She has a powerhouse voice. I'm pretty sure lots of people would have said the same about Mariah Carey circa 1999. I don't think anyone begrudges the point now though. I know... only history will tell.

Amy Whinehouse is there and well, she could be more problematic than even Adele in the control bit.

Then there are people bemoaning Chris Stapleton who obviously have no idea what a talent he is.
 
She has a powerhouse voice. I'm pretty sure lots of people would have said the same about Mariah Carey circa 1999. I don't think anyone begrudges the point now though. I know... only history will tell.

Amy Whinehouse is there and well, she could be more problematic than even Adele in the control bit.

Then there are people bemoaning Chris Stapleton who obviously have no idea what a talent he is.

Oh she has range, there’s just something there that doesn’t click for me at all. Honestly I’d not be keen on Mariah for a similar reason. It could even come down to something as simple just not liking the songs that much to be honest. As I say this isn’t a dig, it’s all subjective.
 
These lists are always subjective, and half the fun is the debates they cause. There are singers I would remove and singers I would add. What are you gonna do? No list is perfect.
 
I feel like it’s a cop out to call the list greatest singers and then say it’s not greatest vocalists. Turns it into subjective nonsense with no meaning between votes.

Like singing is a distinct thing and there’s accounting for taste in terms of style and difficulty and range vs. tempo vs. etc. But like, there’s a ground floor here. Dylan and Young are huge musical talents but in no universe is Neil Young a better singer than Barbra Effing Streisand or Taylor Swift over Florence Welch. And I like all those people.
 
I feel like it’s a cop out to call the list greatest singers and then say it’s not greatest vocalists. Turns it into subjective nonsense with no meaning between votes.

Like singing is a distinct thing and there’s accounting for taste in terms of style and difficulty and range vs. tempo vs. etc. But like, there’s a ground floor here. Dylan and Young are huge musical talents but in no universe is Neil Young a better singer than Barbra Effing Streisand or Taylor Swift over Florence Welch. And I like all those people.

Is singing all about the purest vocal performance though? Is that the singer that makes you enjoy the song the most all of the time? Or is it a bit more complex than that and do character, the ability to convey emotion or to tell a story, the ability to connect and, ultimately the song, matter more?

As someone who apprieciates, but often doesn’t enjoy, the purest vocalists I’m kinda conflicted.

Florence Welsh falls alongside Adele in the “I just don’t get It at all” category for me.
 
Is singing all about the purest vocal performance though? Is that the singer that makes you enjoy the song the most all of the time? Or is it a bit more complex than that and do character, the ability to convey emotion or to tell a story, the ability to connect and, ultimately the song, matter more?

As someone who apprieciates, but often doesn’t enjoy, the purest vocalists I’m kinda conflicted.

Florence Welsh falls alongside Adele in the “I just don’t get It at all” category for me.

Not necessarily all about but enough about yes, enough that I think vocal quality should guide this list. Otherwise call it best musicians happen to be vocalists.

Like, I think Dylan is a superb storyteller, Dylan's singing at his peak fit his music well. So did Marvin Gaye. Except Gaye could hit runs and notes Dylan could never dream of. And when you're talking best of the best, it should be full of artists who are technically superstars and who can embrace character and deliver the song appropriately. Kurt Cobain is influential as hell and his delivery fits the songs perfectly, but a better singer than Chris Cornell who did all of that while sounding the way he did? I can't get there personally. I don't like Eric Clapton and prefer the guitar work, statistically, of other people a lot more, but it'd be really hard to argue some of those folks are better guitar players than him.

There has to be some standard here in my view. Granted I don't care for Thom Yorke's vocals so much that it lessens how much Radiohead I can listen to and he's Top 50 so...a matter of taste too
 
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Not necessarily all about but enough about yes, enough that I think vocal quality should guide this list. Otherwise call it best musicians happen to be vocalists.

Like, I think Dylan is a superb storyteller, Dylan's singing at his peak fit his music well. So did Marvin Gaye. Except Gaye could hit runs and notes Dylan could never dream of. And when you're talking best of the best, it should be full of artists who are technically superstars and who can embrace character and deliver the song appropriately. Kurt Cobain is influential as hell and his delivery fits the songs perfectly, but a better singer than Chris Cornell who did all of that while sounding the way he did? I can't get there personally. I don't like Eric Clapton and prefer the guitar work, statistically, of other people a lot more, but it'd be really hard to argue some of those folks are better guitar players than him.

There has to be some standard here in my view. Granted I don't care for Thom Yorke's vocals so much that it lessens how much Radiohead I can listen to and he's Top 50 so...a matter of taste too

I like the Gaye/Dylan comparison. Because when all else is equal his superior voice wins out. I suppose what I’m sorta digging at is that pure technical superiority isn’t enough. I’ll be much more drawn to a cracked textured emotive performance of a beautiful song over a bigger vocal range, a purer voice or an ability to hit notes. Aretha is 1 because she can do it all. Stevie is right to be high too.
 
I like the Gaye/Dylan comparison. Because when all else is equal his superior voice wins out. I suppose what I’m sorta digging at is that pure technical superiority isn’t enough. I’ll be much more drawn to a cracked textured emotive performance of a beautiful song over a bigger vocal range, a purer voice or an ability to hit notes. Aretha is 1 because she can do it all. Stevie is right to be high too.
I get it, that's how I feel too. It's complicated.

(You are wrong about Florence though, she is amazing. I can get you not liking her dance witch music, but vocally - pfffttt... there's few better)

Yorke and Young are interesting because they can do it but choose to use the texture of their voice more.

What would you call a list of interpreters though. I think singer is the wrong term here. Vocalist might be better...
 
I think singer is the wrong term here.
This was pretty much my qualm.

All valid points across the board, as has been brought up, Dylan on the list was a little bit of a head scratcher, but only due to definition of what they were ranking exactly. I understand the uproar about Celine, as I define the list she should have taken a spot from the more than few that I feel don't belong there, I mean, even Amy Lee should have been on the list..............again, based on the definition you're using when reading this article.
 
Bob Dylan was number 6 the last time they did this, at the very list this is a much better list than that one up and down the board.

I am cautious about a lot of this as it's subjective when it comes down to it, but I think that it's a bit unfair to those who are technically stronger because it's working on an assumption that they don't also get emotive or can't interpret the songs they sing in a fashion like that and I think a lot of them also have that down really well, including those way lower on the list or not on the list at all.

So, I went down a "Make You Feel My Love" wormhole as a result of this whole list because Dylan's high rankings on these lists for what, to me, is easily his worst musical quality, always flummox me. MYFML is later Dylan so the voice isn't anywhere near his 60s/70s peak here, and frankly to me sounds like a drunk man in his 60s in the local karaoke bar belting out an all time classic song. With that, I totally get how someone can really like that version of the song when comparing it to other versions. Joan Osborne's technically strong but really feels like it misses some of the longing I'd want from it. The Billy Joel version is rough in my view (I prefer the approach others took to the song). The Michael Buble version is...uh, Buble and really disconcerting to me (I had to stop it), Straight No Chaser makes some weird decisions, like, frankly I like barfly Bob Dylan's version a good chunk more vocally than most of them. Bryan Ferry's wasn't bad but missed a lot of the flourish that Dylan put into the song and the specific empahsises that elevate it for me (and Ferry is geat). Funny enough I feel like Garth got the emphases and pacing of the vocal and took it in a more hopeful direction - I like that one too, it's a very strong version of what Garth could do.

But the Adele version? Man, that's a vocal masterclass in my view. Not just the flat-out quality of the vocal but the decisions she makes using the tool to bring us through the journey of the song. I think it roughs out some of the harder edges on the original version while keeping a tinge of the sadness or even hoplessness especially at the end that Garth kind of abandons. It's intentional and it's beautiful and heartbreaking in a way that is a bit different than Dylan's version but no worse stylistically and several degrees better technically. Again, it's subjective and if someone doesn't like Adele I can definitely get that, but I think there's some objective elements to what a "good" vocal/voice/singer is just from what else is on the list and what people generally talk about with good vocalists, and in my view she does laps around many on this list on that. And I think it matters.

On the Celine note, I get Celine Dion not being on the list. I don't personally agree - she should've been there, but I get it ya know. You listen to a song like "It's All Coming Back To Me Now" and Celine belts the hell out of it, but I also feel like lesser vocalists who cover it get like 90% of the same things outta the song. Like even the Glee cover led by Lea Michele is functionally very similar. I might even prefer it a tinge. The late stage Meat Loaf version has the camp and charm I think as a vocal that brings something different and interesting to it. I'll totally nod when people get upset that a vocalist like Celine isn't there but I get it .

With that said, there should probably be more respect for those artists who can, in the words of The Weeknd, do what he can't do. I listen to Norah and Willie sing on the same track, as someone who loves both of them, and don't understand how the latter is #54 and the former is unlisted. Willie's singing can do a lot of things but, frankly, Norah's can do those same things but also has elements to it that are aesthetically more pleasing and skillful. You talk about modifying to the song, snag a listen to her versions of Here We Go Again with Ray Charles vs. Here We Go Again with Willie Nelson and how much she changes it up between when she has her own vocal on the Ray version and she's sharing with Willie - she modifies her voice to their voices. It's fascinating stuff. I've listened to both a ton, I've seen both live multiple times, I don't even think it's a contest as singers. Willie may be a better musician - songwriter, performer, etc. but singer? I can't get there. And I'm not necessarily arguing NORAH NEEDS TO BE TOP 50 or anything but I think the list, in an attempt to have a wide diversity of artists and with their odd voting methods, resulted in a list that rewarded a lot of things that aren't necessarily singing but artists who are representative of a segment of singing in a certain genre, style, or geographic region (or of greatness in the overall of what they do) that may not be the best examples of any of those as singers- which is how you get a list that says Jung Kook from BTS (who is a perfectly fine singer with no real solo vocal record beyond a couple features) at 191 and Celine Dion not on the list. Or you have Thom Yorke above Etta James - because while Thom Yorke singing "At Last" feels like it'd be riotously terrible...Etta James doing Paranoid Androiid likely doesn't work and they like Paranoid Android better than At Last.
 
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I get it, that's how I feel too. It's complicated.

(You are wrong about Florence though, she is amazing. I can get you not liking her dance witch music, but vocally - pfffttt... there's few better)

Yorke and Young are interesting because they can do it but choose to use the texture of their voice more.

What would you call a list of interpreters though. I think singer is the wrong term here. Vocalist might be better...

It’s funny you say that about Yorke and Young because Thom Yorke has often cited Neil Young as a huge influence on him.

This is also kinda while Johnny Cash had a much stronger voice as a young man I much prefer the cracked, grizzled and slightly vulnerable voice he had as an old man.

Bob Dylan was number 6 the last time they did this, at the very list this is a much better list than that one up and down the board.

I am cautious about a lot of this as it's subjective when it comes down to it, but I think that it's a bit unfair to those who are technically stronger because it's working on an assumption that they don't also get emotive or can't interpret the songs they sing in a fashion like that and I think a lot of them also have that down really well, including those way lower on the list or not on the list at all.

So, I went down a "Make You Feel My Love" wormhole as a result of this whole list because Dylan's high rankings on these lists for what, to me, is easily his worst musical quality, always flummox me. MYFML is later Dylan so the voice isn't anywhere near his 60s/70s peak here, and frankly to me sounds like a drunk man in his 60s in the local karaoke bar belting out an all time classic song. With that, I totally get how someone can really like that version of the song when comparing it to other versions. Joan Osborne's technically strong but really feels like it misses some of the longing I'd want from it. The Billy Joel version is rough in my view (I prefer the approach others took to the song). The Michael Buble version is...uh, Buble and really disconcerting to me (I had to stop it), Straight No Chaser makes some weird decisions, like, frankly I like barfly Bob Dylan's version a good chunk more vocally than most of them. Bryan Ferry's wasn't bad but missed a lot of the flourish that Dylan put into the song and the specific empahsises that elevate it for me (and Ferry is geat). Funny enough I feel like Garth got the emphases and pacing of the vocal and took it in a more hopeful direction - I like that one too, it's a very strong version of what Garth could do.

But the Adele version? Man, that's a vocal masterclass in my view. Not just the flat-out quality of the vocal but the decisions she makes using the tool to bring us through the journey of the song. I think it roughs out some of the harder edges on the original version while keeping a tinge of the sadness or even hoplessness especially at the end that Garth kind of abandons. It's intentional and it's beautiful and heartbreaking in a way that is a bit different than Dylan's version but no worse stylistically and several degrees better technically. Again, it's subjective and if someone doesn't like Adele I can definitely get that, but I think there's some objective elements to what a "good" vocal/voice/singer is just from what else is on the list and what people generally talk about with good vocalists, and in my view she does laps around many on this list on that. And I think it matters.

On the Celine note, I get Celine Dion not being on the list. I don't personally agree - she should've been there, but I get it ya know. You listen to a song like "It's All Coming Back To Me Now" and Celine belts the hell out of it, but I also feel like lesser vocalists who cover it get like 90% of the same things outta the song. Like even the Glee cover led by Lea Michele is functionally very similar. I might even prefer it a tinge. The late stage Meat Loaf version has the camp and charm I think as a vocal that brings something different and interesting to it. I'll totally nod when people get upset that a vocalist like Celine isn't there but I get it .

With that said, there should probably be more respect for those artists who can, in the words of The Weeknd, do what he can't do. I listen to Norah and Willie sing on the same track, as someone who loves both of them, and don't understand how the latter is #54 and the former is unlisted. Willie's singing can do a lot of things but, frankly, Norah's can do those same things but also has elements to it that are aesthetically more pleasing and skillful. You talk about modifying to the song, snag a listen to her versions of Here We Go Again with Ray Charles vs. Here We Go Again with Willie Nelson and how much she changes it up between when she has her own vocal on the Ray version and she's sharing with Willie - she modifies her voice to their voices. It's fascinating stuff. I've listened to both a ton, I've seen both live multiple times, I don't even think it's a contest as singers. Willie may be a better musician - songwriter, performer, etc. but singer? I can't get there. And I'm not necessarily arguing NORAH NEEDS TO BE TOP 50 or anything but I think the list, in an attempt to have a wide diversity of artists and with their odd voting methods, resulted in a list that rewarded a lot of things that aren't necessarily singing but artists who are representative of a segment of singing in a certain genre, style, or geographic region (or of greatness in the overall of what they do) that may not be the best examples of any of those as singers- which is how you get a list that says Jung Kook from BTS (who is a perfectly fine singer with no real solo vocal record beyond a couple features) at 191 and Celine Dion not on the list. Or you have Thom Yorke above Etta James - because while Thom Yorke singing "At Last" feels like it'd be riotously terrible...Etta James doing Paranoid Androiid likely doesn't work and they like Paranoid Android better than At Last.

That cover of Dylan is pretty much the only thing Adele has done that I don’t hate. Maybe Chasing Pavements, maybe 🤔. Plus when she really goes for it her pitch can go a skewed.
 
This is also kinda while Johnny Cash had a much stronger voice as a young man I much prefer the cracked, grizzled and slightly vulnerable voice he had as an old man.
That is an interesting take. Coke ravaged Bowie’s voice. His singing in the 70s is different from the 80s which is also very different from his voice at the end of his life. But like Cash and other, he understood that and wrote his songs differently. I cannot imagine Bowie of 2013 going on tour (even if he was healthy enough) and belting out Changes or Heroes.

Leonard Cohen and Scott Walker that understood their voice were completely different from their younger days and actually changed how they wrote their songs.
 
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