Political Discussion

Bull Shannon said:
There’s some stuff happening on campuses which doesn’t give me much confidence that an owner regulated by the American government would keep its hands off the wheel when it comes to pro-Palestine content…
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You think the US government is limiting speech/content on social media? That seems like a huge story. Do you also find the Chinese government to be more trustworthy than the US government in that regard?

I find the attempt by some in college leadership, local, and state government to stifle peaceful protest appalling. Relating a TikTok ban to the ongoing strife on campuses feels a bit like a red herring to me.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
You think the US government is limiting speech/content on social media? That seems like a huge story. Do you also find the Chinese government to be more trustworthy than the US government in that regard?

I find the attempt by some in college leadership, local, and state government to stifle peaceful protest appalling. Relating a TikTok ban to the ongoing strife on campuses feels a bit like a red herring to me.
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China is obviously more blatant about it, and the US government doesn't often directly intervene to censor things online. But they do put pressure on companies to do it sometimes and sometimes the companies do even without the outside political pressure.

This TikTok ban has been in the works since wayyyyy before anything related to the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, so I agree that it probably has minimal relation to that. Although it may be used to influence some votes from shortsighted dumb asses in Congress.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
You think the US government is limiting speech/content on social media? That seems like a huge story. Do you also find the Chinese government to be more trustworthy than the US government in that regard?

I find the attempt by some in college leadership, local, and state government to stifle peaceful protest appalling. Relating a TikTok ban to the ongoing strife on campuses feels a bit like a red herring to me.
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Hemotep said:
China is obviously more blatant about it, and the US government doesn't often directly intervene to censor things online. But they do put pressure on companies to do it sometimes and sometimes the companies do even without the outside political pressure.

This TikTok ban has been in the works since wayyyyy before anything related to the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, so I agree that it probably has minimal relation to that. Although it may be used to influence some votes from shortsighted dumb asses in Congress.
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This. Over the years we've seen Twitter and Facebook bow to pressure and certain stories/topics getting buried algorithmically; let alone the lack of oversight or curbing of disinformation on the other end of that spectrum and the capitalistic urge to profit off sensationalism. I'm not trying to say the sale is purely influenced by pro-Palestine content, but when a Senator tells me he's motivated to support the ban because curbing pro-Palestine information would be a perk, I believe him.

I don't mean to draw a direct line from the ban to the mobilization of militarized police on peaceful college protesters, but when the conversation is about how the Chinese government is bad, squashes free speech and mishandles personal information, and selling a Chinese-based company to an American entity will be some improvement, I just don't see it. For most any reason one could point to the Chinese government being bad, I struggle to point to the American government behaving dissimilarly. They've managed our personal information terribly, used social media to crack down on dissent by tracking protesters, and are full-throatedly expressing a desire to tamp down the flow of knowledge and information.

eta, though: I do believe the current militarized response to peaceful protest, the tasing/teargassing/tackling of students and teachers going on, is in some part retaliation for the George Floyd protests four years ago; these state governments and PDs are acting vengefully and broadcasting the message that we won't be allowed to speak up like we did last time. Twitter and Tiktok were instrumental tools in organizing protests and showing exactly how violent the police reaction was at the time. I do believe the governmental distrust of Tiktok germinated then and there. So maybe there's more connection than I'm demurring from.

Whether the sale would result in a functional change to TikTok's algorithm (keep in mind the app does censor harmful content and certain words such as references to self-harm are already programmatically removed; there's a precedent for content moderation/censorship), I call foul on the motivations having anything to do with protecting individual citizens and more about politicking.
 
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Bull Shannon said:
but when a Senator tells me he's motivated to support the ban because there's too much pro-Palestine content on there, I believe him.
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I don’t doubt that senator dickhead and many of his GOP bros are wanting the ban, at least partially; for the wrong reasons. I also don’t think they share the same rationale to others on the left are also in favor of the ban.
Bull Shannon said:
I don't mean to draw a direct line from the ban to the mobilization of militarized police on peaceful college protesters, but when the conversation is about how the Chinese government is bad, squashes free speech and mishandles personal information, and selling a Chinese-based company to an American entity will be some improvement, I just don't see it. For most any reason one could point to the Chinese government being bad, I struggle to point to the American government behaving dissimilarly. They've managed our personal information terribly, used social media to crack down on dissent by tracking protesters, and are full-throatedly expressing a desire to tamp down the flow of knowledge and information.
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What is the worst outcome you can imagine by the forced sale/ban of TikTok? Maybe I am missing something but I feel like the worst case scenario of inaction seems far worse.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
What is the worst outcome you can imagine by the forced sale/ban of TikTok? Maybe I am missing something but I feel like the worst case scenario of inaction seems far worse.
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I'm not sure I'm predicting something will happen (beyond a facebook/twitter style enshittification and decline in use) so much as the political theater taking place will instill in Americans the idea that there is some awful outcome from the app being owned by a Chinese company. But that ship's already sailed, it seems.
 
Im just glad we are back to the seventies. College protests are getting an armed response because of a war that no one but the powers that be wants. Also China is bad full stop.

Great times. I guess it’s cool that Crazy Horse is touring though.

Maybe we can get Jimmy Carter to serve a second term. If any old ass mofo can right the ship…
 
Far less important than the hypocrisy and injustice above, by why the fuck would Trump ever comply with the gag order if he only gets fined $1000 per violation? A mockery of justice and another reason why the American courts are a gd joke.
www.yahoo.com

Judge holds Trump in contempt, fines him $9,000 and raises threat of jail in hush money trial

Donald Trump was held in contempt of court Tuesday and fined $9,000 for repeatedly violating a gag order that barred him from making public statements about witnesses, jurors and some others connected to his New York hush money case. Prosecutors had alleged 10 violations, but New York Judge...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Hemotep said:
Far less important than the hypocrisy and injustice above, by why the fuck would Trump ever comply with the gag order if he only gets fined $1000 per violation? A mockery of justice and another reason why the American courts are a gd joke.
www.yahoo.com

Judge holds Trump in contempt, fines him $9,000 and raises threat of jail in hush money trial

Donald Trump was held in contempt of court Tuesday and fined $9,000 for repeatedly violating a gag order that barred him from making public statements about witnesses, jurors and some others connected to his New York hush money case. Prosecutors had alleged 10 violations, but New York Judge...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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He won't, but that is the max fine allowable by NY state. The real test will be Thursday - when there is yet another gag order hearing. Will tfg violate again between 2:15pm today (when the offending tweets / posts / whatever they are called on his dumb ass site must be pulled down) and then? If so, will Merchan actually remand him to jail as he has warned is a possibility?
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:


Fuck Joe Biden and fuck the Democrats!
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I also heard a soundbite on NPR news where Bidden said "It's not going to happen" in a response to protesters demands that we stop funding Israel.

There was also a soundbite from a police chief in I think Austin Texas. Along with blaming protesters for damage (where protesters countered and said all the damage was done by police), the main point the police chief was trying to make was that you are delusional if you think that these protests and damaging property will have any impact on federal policy or the war in Gaza and that these protests are pointless and illegal.

But hey, at least Biden and this police chief didn't say anything as bad as this:

www.newsweek.com

Republican suggests protesters would be thrown off bridge in home state

Following several protests in California calling for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war, Senator Tom Cotton criticizes protesters.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
RenegadeMonster said:
I also heard a soundbite on NPR news where Bidden said "It's not going to happen" in a response to protesters demands that we stop funding Israel.

There was also a soundbite from a police chief in I think Austin Texas. Along with blaming protesters for damage (where protesters countered and said all the damage was done by police), the main point the police chief was trying to make was that you are delusional if you think that these protests and damaging property will have any impact on federal policy or the war in Gaza and that these protests are pointless and illegal.

But hey, at least Biden and this police chief didn't say anything as bad as this:

www.newsweek.com

Republican suggests protesters would be thrown off bridge in home state

Following several protests in California calling for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war, Senator Tom Cotton criticizes protesters.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
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I'd like to throw Cotton from a bridge.
 
One of the things I heard NPR talking about, is this year's college graduates is the same class who saw their high school graduations canceled in 2020 due to covid. Now they are seeing their college graduations canceled due to protests.

The start of last nights episode of John Oliver was all about these college protests. And how politicians, like Biden are condemning them as not being peaceful. Violence, damage to property, canceled classes and graduations are not peaceful and you don't have a right to protest in that way. I pretty much feel, there is no way to protest that Biden would consider peaceful and legal.

But as John Oliver points out. All the violence and property damage is either being done by police, or counter protesters.

Who are these counter protesters, and why does it seem any political protest as of late draws them out. Have they always been an issue, or is this a relatively new occurrence, at least on the scale that we are seeing it in recent years.

Class and graduation cancellations are not happening because of the peaceful student sit ins, they are happening because of the massive, militarized police presence the sit ins have drawn. And any violence or damage not being caused by police is being caused by counter protesters.

I believe it was at Columbia, but John Oliver mentioned a case where a 63 year old professor of Jewish studies was thrown on the ground by police for no apparent reason. What threat did she pose and why was that kind of force needed? She's Jewish herself, isn't she just who the police are supposedly there to protect? Instead, it seams the police are using violence against people like her.


NPR was also talking about how these college protests are a huge issue for the democratic party. As big of an issue if not bigger an issue than abortion is for the Republicans. Democrats are losing younger voters over their actions and response. And older voters over the fact that they are not doing enough to stop these protests and keeping the peace. There is a clear devision amount generations and what they expect.
 
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