Political Discussion

In the United States 90% of people who need a knee replacement surgery wait too long.
Most say the cost of the surgery is why they wait thinking they can get by without it.

Waiting too long no only damages the knee further which could result in poorer results after surgery, but it also means people are living in pain longer and likely gaining weight and exercising less resulting in other medical issues.
 
Right - there was specific legislation about those issues. The evidence and mechanisms for ozone depletion and acid rain were clear, just as they are with climate change... the impacts of climate change are somehow less clear for people perhaps becuase they are less predictable.
I think that the main difference is that the Depletion of the ozone layer and Acid rain could be tackled with very specific measures ( i.e. ban on cfcs hcfcs or desulfurization) while ozone layer and Acid rain could be tackled with very specific measures ( i.e. ban on cfcs hcfcs or desulfurization). The science is Pretty clear on Climate science, but the measures are so diverse and wide-reaching that it gives evryone to Point the blame on someone else.
 
I think that the main difference is that the Depletion of the ozone layer and Acid rain could be tackled with very specific measures ( i.e. ban on cfcs hcfcs or desulfurization) while ozone layer and Acid rain could be tackled with very specific measures ( i.e. ban on cfcs hcfcs or desulfurization). The science is Pretty clear on Climate science, but the measures are so diverse and wide-reaching that it gives evryone to Point the blame on someone else.

Y- I kind-of agree with this. It's just harder for people to see the solutions when the solutions are so numerous. Of course they don't have to be soooo numerous if very dramatic changes were made.

If an area the size of the continent of Australia could be planted with Eucalyptus or some other rapidly growing tree, that would be harvested every 20 years in some carbon neutral way, and floated out to the Marianas trench in some carbon neutral way, and have oysters grown on the wood along the way, and that wood sunk and subducted by the trench - you could move a significant amount of rapidly cycling (modern) carbon back into the fossil pool of carbon from whence it came.... but alas that's about as unlikely as raising 6% of the Indian subcontinent out of poverty.

There is plenty of hope here tho. There's just extremely limited ability to address the fundamental problems and therefore we must adapt to the new conditions as they're thrown at us. Who knows, maybe there will be several major volcanic eruptions over a short period of time that throw enough ash up into the stratosphere to cool the planet for a few years?
 
Yeah

wait wut

A) Even if he said it (and I have my doubts), it was in a private meeting between friends and B) it's reported (by the Washington Post) that she asked him point blank whether he thought a woman could beat Trump (and his camp claims that his [honest] response was framed through Trump's notoriety for nefarious tactics).

MORE IMPORTANTLY

C) There is a difference between contrasting policy, coalitions, voting records, ext and this.

This is a straight smear and a no-win situation for progressives. 3 separate Bernie supporters I know who have been vocal about advocating for Warren as an awesome 2nd option have posted (via FB) that they are done defending Warren and will no longer canvass for her should she be the nominee. Out of curiosity, I contacted two female friends who were leaning Warren (after voting Bernie in 16') and both indicated it felt desperate and left a sour taste in their mouth. They are now back on the fence or leaning Bernie. Meanwhile, angry Hill-bot types (+ bots from various camps) are all over twitter and are now more likely to sit out in a general if Bernie is the nominee.

It's literally driving a wedge between two bases of support that overlap heavily. Most polling shows that roughly 60% of each candidates supporters list the other as their 2nd option. And a contested convention that boils down to the delegates of Warren + Sander vs Biden + Pete is extremely likely. So why the hell is her camp leaking this?

Go take a peek at twitter- the results are toxic as a Coachella porti-potti. This doesn't help Liz. It doesn't help Bernie.

You know who it helps? Biden and Trump. Which makes Warren look like either a) an idiot (which she clearly is not), b) vindictive (over the canvassing talking points that paint her coalition as overtly white, educated and wealthy) or c) a tool who is angling for a VP spot with Biden.

The reality is probably d) she was desperate to flip momentum. But the fact that she was willing to risk progressive unity to do so reveals her as (imo) just another politician. Which in turn makes me trust (and like) her less.
 
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Y- I kind-of agree with this. It's just harder for people to see the solutions when the solutions are so numerous. Of course they don't have to be soooo numerous if very dramatic changes were made.

If an area the size of the continent of Australia could be planted with Eucalyptus or some other rapidly growing tree, that would be harvested every 20 years in some carbon neutral way, and floated out to the Marianas trench in some carbon neutral way, and have oysters grown on the wood along the way, and that wood sunk and subducted by the trench - you could move a significant amount of rapidly cycling (modern) carbon back into the fossil pool of carbon from whence it came.... but alas that's about as unlikely as raising 6% of the Indian subcontinent out of poverty.

There is plenty of hope here tho. There's just extremely limited ability to address the fundamental problems and therefore we must adapt to the new conditions as they're thrown at us. Who knows, maybe there will be several major volcanic eruptions over a short period of time that throw enough ash up into the stratosphere to cool the planet for a few years?

Appreciate all your takes on this even where I don't completely agree.
 
A) Even if he said it (and I have my doubts), it was in a private meeting between friends and B) it's reported (by the Washington Post) that she asked him point blank whether he thought a woman could beat Trump (and his camp claims that his [honest] response was framed through Trump's notoriety for nefarious tactics).

MORE IMPORTANTLY

C) There is a difference between contrasting policy, coalitions, voting records, ext and this.

This is a straight smear and a no-win situation for progressives. 3 separate Bernie supporters I know who have been vocal about advocating for Warren as an awesome 2nd option have posted (via FB) that they are done defending Warren and will no longer canvass for her should she be the nominee. Out of curiosity, I contacted two female friends who were leaning Warren (after voting Bernie in 16') and both indicated it felt desperate and left a sour taste in their mouth. They are now back on the fence or leaning Bernie. Meanwhile, angry Hill-bot types (+ bots from various camps) are all over twitter and are now more likely to sit out in a general if Bernie is the nominee.

It's literally driving a wedge between two bases of support that overlap heavily. Most polling shows that roughly 60% of each candidates supporters list the other as their 2nd option. And a contested convention that boils down to the delegates of Warren + Sander vs Biden + Pete is extremely likely. So why the hell is her camp leaking this?

Go take a peek at twitter- the results are toxic as a Coachella porti-potti. This doesn't help Liz. It doesn't help Bernie.

You know who it helps? Biden and Trump. Which makes Warren look like either a) an idiot (which she clearly is not), b) vindictive (over the canvassing talking points that paint her coalition as overtly white, educated and wealthy) or c) a tool who is angling for a VP spot with Biden.

The reality is probably d) she was desperate to flip momentum. But the fact that she was willing to risk progressive unity to do so reveals her as (imo) just another politician. Which in turn makes me trust (and like) her less.
How do you see the statement that she released today?
 
By the way, two videos with Bernie encouraging women to run for president and expressing the idea they can win in the late 1980's have already surfaced.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here&#39;s the full clip context: Bernie Sanders backing Jesse Jackson then Arfican American democratic nominee for president in 1988 <a href="call me Kev on Twitter">pic.twitter.com/CrWXYoHOOb</a></p>&mdash; call me Kev (@kevshawn478) <a href="">January 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Yeah, I figured that to be the one:

82654160_10100139514259779_1798965515994005504_o.jpg

Sorry that it isn't a better image.

Nothing about the above response changes my opinion. In fact, it was what dimmed my opinion of her. You don't control your staffers, and I was wiling to give her the benefit of the doubt that the acted as lone wolfs. But her response fans the flames, and cements the idea this was a move made with her sign off.

And if Warren asked Bernie for his opinion on the matter in a personal meeting between friends where they were there to discuss, specifically, whether their room for two progressives in the race and who might have the better shot of beating Trump (which is what was reported by numerous outlets at the time) than it is super fucked up of her camp to then later use that answer against him.

I think Bernie probably came out too strong in his initial response to the accusations, but that on the whole he is right that the framing of them is ludicrous. I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that the same guy who has supported the idea of a female president numerous times over the years- including encouraging Warren to run in 2016 BEFORE doing so himself when she refused- would come out and point blank say that a female couldn't beat Trump. It seems completely out of character.

I do believe that, if asked, he might have framed exactly as the sources above indicate- a discussion of the ways in which Trump might attempt to utilize gender in a gross but impactful manner.

But again, all of that is beside the point. Warren is causing damage to both candidates right now that directly impact both Trump and Biden's chances of gaining the nomination. Which means she is actively attempting to sabotage Bernie in exchange for some sort of cabinet position or that she is a god awful tactician who thought this move would actually help her become president.
 
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By the way, two videos with Bernie encouraging women to run for president and expressing the idea they can win in the late 1980's have already surfaced.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here&#39;s the full clip context: Bernie Sanders backing Jesse Jackson then Arfican American democratic nominee for president in 1988 <a href="call me Kev on Twitter">pic.twitter.com/CrWXYoHOOb</a></p>&mdash; call me Kev (@kevshawn478) <a href="">January 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



80’s Bernie definitely had a more unconventional look. I like it!
 
Last night the debate was trending on Twitter. The top hashtags were all related to the debate. Unfortunately all these hashtags were negative and that disappoints me. #CNNisTrash #Warrenisasnake #CNNisFakeNews #NeverWarren #NeverBernie

#CNNisTrash was the number 1 hashtag last night.
 
Last night the debate was trending on Twitter. The top hashtags were all related to the debate. Unfortunately all these hashtags were negative and that disappoints me. #CNNisTrash #Warrenisasnake #CNNisFakeNews #NeverWarren #NeverBernie

#CNNisTrash was the number 1 hashtag last night.

Which is sadly predictable and exactly why this was such a disastrous gamble by Warren. Meanwhile, Biden gets completely let off the hook for his misleading statements about Iraq. There is literally footage from as late as 2003 with him praising "popular" Bush's "bold" decision to invade Iraq, while implying the reward for doing so would be much higher than the cost.

But also, CNN is trash and deserves to be absolutely slammed for a complete and utter lack of journalist integrity last night.
 
Last night the debate was trending on Twitter. The top hashtags were all related to the debate. Unfortunately all these hashtags were negative and that disappoints me. #CNNisTrash #Warrenisasnake #CNNisFakeNews #NeverWarren #NeverBernie

#CNNisTrash was the number 1 hashtag last night.
Did you see all the chyrons when asking Bernie questions? CNN is trash.
 
Which is sadly predictable and exactly why this was such a disastrous gamble by Warren. Meanwhile, Biden gets completely let off the hook for his misleading statements about Iraq. There is literally footage from as late as 2003 with him praising "popular" Bush's "bold" decision to invade Iraq, while implying the reward for doing so would be much higher than the cost.

But also, CNN is trash and deserves to be absolutely slammed for a complete and utter lack of journalist integrity last night.
The media continuing to focus on this Sanders/Warren thing is in hopes of splintering the left and handing the nom to Biden.
 
Last night the debate was trending on Twitter. The top hashtags were all related to the debate. Unfortunately all these hashtags were negative and that disappoints me. #CNNisTrash #Warrenisasnake #CNNisFakeNews #NeverWarren #NeverBernie

#CNNisTrash was the number 1 hashtag last night.
I think it´s become a general mistake to read too much into trending aashtags on social media, because those seem to be mainly driven by activists and bots with a partisan agenda
 
I fell asleep during the debate last night.

But the only highlight I see being covered everywhere this morning is the snubbed handshake. Not much else...
 
I fell asleep during the debate last night.

But the only highlight I see being covered everywhere this morning is the snubbed handshake. Not much else...


Which is why I never watch cooperate news. and all those daytime "pollitical news" shows. They are useless and never tackle actual issues. I went home a while back and my dad an step mom has MSNBC on all evening. It was after Chuck and Nancy met with Trump for some reason. 4 straight hours of bullshit partisan confirmation bias. Distract the masses with a soap opera.
 
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