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Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
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dbarila
Well-Known Member
That mosque sketch was the only one I found even remotely entertaining on that whole series.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
While a lot of your critiques of Bernie are fair here... mainly that he's never run a national campaign against the GOP and there is a lot that might come out from his past... the idea that he is some cranky old man behind the scenes is completely detached from reality. And I say this as somebody A) who has close friends who have worked for him closely and B) somebody who has seen him go out of his way to help a local LA organization I work for simply because he heard about a battle we were waging on behalf of a bunch of vets who were being fucked over by their landlords. It's also completely detached from the empathy and sense of humor that his supporters see in the man on a regular basis at rallies, small events, town halls, exc.
Hell, you talk about right wingers who are terrified of socialists and who think free = "evil and lazy". Most of those people are brain dead right wingers who would never vote for a Democrat to begin with! In contrast, I have several family members who have voted Republican my whole life but hate Trump (for who he is as a human being) and have let it be known to my brother and I that they plan on registering as Dems to vote for Bernie. Which is a story I saw over and over and over again in 2016 while knocking on doors... specifically because people see him as someone who actually cares about working people. So even if they don't agree with all of the policy, they just want to vote for somebody who actually has their back. Again- look at the article I posted awhile back from a reporter who was on the front lines of the GM strike, and to his surprise, found a high correlation between people who supported Bernie in 2016 before voting for Trump in the general out of sheer desperation.
Anyways, I've said a lot of this before, and feel like I'm just this boards resident Bernie Bro (even though I will gladly vote for Warren if Bernie falters in the early states). Plus, I like you a lot GritNGlitter. And I agree that nobody knows exactly who is going to be electible versus Trump in 2020. I just get frustrated by some of these narratives that derive directly from what the media is pushing and the fact that your post got so many up-votes.
I may have posted this earlier and I understand that video editing is inherently designed to charge up a person's emotions but this video sums up a lot of my frustrations with the way the has continued to cover Bernie in 2020. Of particular note is the Daily Show segment which intentionally removes context in a blatant attempt to play up and push the perception of Bernie as a grumpy old man. I work as an editor and have cut my fair share of comedy segments (and grew up worshiping John Stewart) but, to me, the way the footage is manipulated is extremely problematic:
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
Oh also... I originally came here to say that this Tulsi, Clinton thing is completely bat shit and I have no idea about what to think on any of it.
But as my buddy pointed out- the company that started the Tulsi is a Russian asset rumors is the same firm that got caught by the NYT "fabricating Russian troll accounts on behalf of the Democratic Party in the Alabama Senate race to manufacture false accusations that the Kremlin was interfering in that election".
www.nytimes.com
www.businessinsider.com
theintercept.com
But as my buddy pointed out- the company that started the Tulsi is a Russian asset rumors is the same firm that got caught by the NYT "fabricating Russian troll accounts on behalf of the Democratic Party in the Alabama Senate race to manufacture false accusations that the Kremlin was interfering in that election".
Secret Experiment in Alabama Senate Race Imitated Russian Tactics (Published 2018)
A project to help the Democratic contender, Doug Jones, in his closely contested race against Roy Moore used deception on Facebook and Twitter.
Facebook suspended five accounts for spreading misleading information during an Alabama election, including a lead social media researcher who helped the government discover fake news
Facebook suspended five accounts for spreading misleading information during the special election in Alabama last year.
www.businessinsider.com
NBC News, to Claim Russia Supports Tulsi Gabbard, Relies on Firm Just Caught Fabricating Russia Data for the Democratic Party
The playbook of the Democratic Party and its allies is a simple one: Smear any adversary of the party’s establishment wing as an asset of the Kremlin.
theintercept.com
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dbarila
Well-Known Member
I mean, it sounds completely insane but at the same time actually makes some sense.Oh also... I originally came here to say that this Tulsi, Clinton thing is completely bat shit and I have no idea about what to think on any of it.
That said, the same people who started the Tulsi is a Russian / Syrian asset rumors are from the same firm that imitated Russian trolls to help swing Doug Jones election in Alabama.
Secret Experiment in Alabama Senate Race Imitated Russian Tactics (Published 2018)
A project to help the Democratic contender, Doug Jones, in his closely contested race against Roy Moore used deception on Facebook and Twitter.
Facebook suspended five accounts for spreading misleading information during an Alabama election, including a lead social media researcher who helped the government discover fake news
Facebook suspended five accounts for spreading misleading information during the special election in Alabama last year.
NBC News, to Claim Russia Supports Tulsi Gabbard, Relies on Firm Just Caught Fabricating Russia Data for the Democratic Party
The playbook of the Democratic Party and its allies is a simple one: Smear any adversary of the party’s establishment wing as an asset of the Kremlin.
It’s literally the only clip I’ve seen from the series. I doubt I would even watch the whole thing.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
From both directions though. As I point to with my links- these Tulsi, Russia links were initially pushed by shady firms that got caught falsifying links between Russia and the GOP in the Alabama senate race. Am I glad Doug won? Of course. But it also points to the ways in which Russia has become a tool that Dems throw at anyone they want to discredit.
And anyone who knows the Clinton's know that they are a vindictive bunch who will attempt to halt the career of any politician who crosses them (as Tulsi did in 2016 via calling out the DNC's corruption). It's precisely why I don't hold Warren's lack of Bernie endorsement against her.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
I think those guys were profiles on an episode of This American Life. I just listened to it a week or so ago and almost posted about it here. I totally understand their mindset of fighting fire with fire, but it’s still extremely disturbing.Oh also... I originally came here to say that this Tulsi, Clinton thing is completely bat shit and I have no idea about what to think on any of it.
But as my buddy pointed out- the company that started the Tulsi is a Russian asset rumors is the same firm that got caught by the NYT "fabricating Russian troll accounts on behalf of the Democratic Party in the Alabama Senate race to manufacture false accusations that the Kremlin was interfering in that election".
Secret Experiment in Alabama Senate Race Imitated Russian Tactics (Published 2018)
A project to help the Democratic contender, Doug Jones, in his closely contested race against Roy Moore used deception on Facebook and Twitter.
Facebook suspended five accounts for spreading misleading information during an Alabama election, including a lead social media researcher who helped the government discover fake news
Facebook suspended five accounts for spreading misleading information during the special election in Alabama last year.
NBC News, to Claim Russia Supports Tulsi Gabbard, Relies on Firm Just Caught Fabricating Russia Data for the Democratic Party
The playbook of the Democratic Party and its allies is a simple one: Smear any adversary of the party’s establishment wing as an asset of the Kremlin.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
not positive, but I remember this being mentioned in an episode this spring. maybe Indy means this one?
if there was a more recent one, I have not heard it yet.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
That’s the one.
I didn't say right wingers. I was not speaking specifically of right wingers--I was thinking of some particular conversations I've had with West Coast Democrats over the last couple years, in addition to the right-wing anti-socialist rhetoric we're all so familiar with.
I didn't say behind the scenes. I said in the spotlight. I don't think he's a mean ol' man or anything like that. I do, unfortunately, have disability activists in my life who tried to work with his campaign in the past and had a deeply unpleasant and dismissive experience, but I also know folks who enjoyed working on his campaign. I'm glad you and your friends had positive experiences. But I'm talking about the way he comes across when he's challenged in public. I have also seen him be charming and speak powerfully, but let's not pretend he's always graceful under pressure.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
I just want to echo this. I'm from a liberal city. I work with people who identify as progressive liberals and socialism is something that people still don't want to say they are committed to even if they believe in the principles. Identifying as socialist is socially acceptable
where I'm at. My assumption is that's even more true in the suburban neighborhoods. In my conversations with older dems. they are at times fearful of social concepts particularly as they apply to the economy. The cold war remains a strong influence on their identity.I always felt like Bernie plays-up the cantankerous thing at times. Like it's cute. I dunno. I don't have any close interactions with Bernie supporters or the campaign, other than receiving a few obnoxious phone calls I didn't ask for because I'm on someone's list. My impression from very far away has been there's a bit too much zealousness for my taste.
The same thing can be said for any campaign probably, but when I get that vibe I'm immediately less interested. I'm personally not interested in the education that tends to be offered by campaigners. It always feels condescending to me.
None of the candidates are left enough for me either. I think the more progressive candidates are more my cup-o-tea, but I have little faith that a Sanders or Warren presidency is going to fundamentally alter the power structure. Maybe a few people will be less desperate. I hope so, but I feel like the systemic changes I'd like to see are not going to happen in my lifetime. I'm personally more interested in people that are putting pressure on police, landlords, and legislatures at the local level. I think there's more potential positive impacts there.
Absolutely. Housing is getting so expensive here and the Portland Police Bureau is such a disgrace, it's important to me to put support towards local government roles that can focus on and address those issues.I just want to echo this. I'm from a liberal city. I work with people who identify as progressive liberals and socialism is something that people still don't want to say they are committed to even if they believe in the principles. Identifying as socialist is socially acceptable
I always felt like Bernie plays-up the cantankerous thing at times. Like it's cute. I dunno. I don't have any close interactions with Bernie supporters or the campaign, other than receiving a few obnoxious phone calls I didn't ask for because I'm on someone's list. My impression from very far away has been there's a bit too much zealousness for my taste.
The same thing can be said for any campaign probably, but when I get that vibe I'm immediately less interested. I'm personally not interested in the education that tends to be offered by campaigners. It always feels condescending to me.
None of the candidates are left enough for me either. I think the more progressive candidates are more my cup-o-tea, but I have little faith that a Sanders or Warren presidency is going to fundamentally alter the power structure. Maybe a few people will be less desperate. I hope so, but I feel like the systemic changes I'd like to see are not going to happen in my lifetime. I'm personally more interested in people that are putting pressure on police, landlords, and legislatures at the local level. I think there's more potential positive impacts there.
But I did hear that Warren has stated that she intends to put an end to the filibuster, which did pique my interest. As far as I know she's the only one to state this intention. I'm definitely most interested in a candidate willing to battle to restore balance to the branches of government. I mean, at least until borders and nation states are abolished altogether.
High Rant District
Active Member
I wish I could like this a million times. Many people will scrutinize the behaviors, backgrounds and voting histories of candidates for national office but don't spend a second doing the same for candidates for city/local offices or their representatives to their state legislature. The more local politically you focus, the more you impact you can have on how your actual everyday life is affected.
I mean, at least until borders and nation states are abolished altogether.
I’ll raise a glass to that future!
jaycee
Well-Known Member
I miss voting in Oregon. I miss my voting book that came in the mail. I miss the ease. That state seems to have its act together as far as voting system goes.
Yes, auto registration and vote by mail should be adopted in every state. Our voter turnout is steadily increasing too.
In fact, by booklet and ballot are in my mail basket right now!
High Rant District
Active Member
I often wonder if Oregon's vote-by-mail system is the most potentially corrupt way of voting. People who have moved out of a jurisdiction can have someone forward their mail so they can keep voting on things where they no longer live. People who live in a household who either don't care about how they vote or have a domineering/controlling partner can have that person vote for them. It prevents certain people from voting strictly in private.
With the current ballot, you'll have the option to vote against the two ballot measures that aim to impose over one billion dollars in property taxes (over 5 years, IIRC) that directly negatively impact the cost of living here.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
I've wondered the same. Coming from the east it seemed strange just voting by mail at first. I'm sure it happens but you have to be pretty dedicated to voting for or against something/someone where you don't live instead of voting for or against something/someone where you do.
It seems pretty difficult to vote in two municipalities if you're still in state.
I'll take OR over the state I'm in now where I have to vote absentee and request a ballot every election by mail if I don't want to wait in line for hours. This state suppresses the votes of workers that can't miss work, don't have internet access, or don't know how to navigate the online request that you have to print out and mail in.
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