Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

Turbo said:
The bit I highlighted is irrelevant to RNA vaccines. It's a property of the SARS-CoV-2 RNA which can appropriate the innate cellular mRNA capping system and then use the cellular machinery to replicate itself (FYI, I did my PhD on mRNA cap binding proteins, albeit 20 years ago). The RNA vaccine will in fact use a similar strategy of co-opting the cellular machinery to do its thing, but it's not the same virulent nucleic acid.

You're right to say there may be issues with RNA vaccines since it's completely new technology. Stage 3 testing should hopefully catch if serious side-effects exist. They don't usually approve vaccine with higher than 1:100,000 incidents of serious side-effects since the intent is to give this to healthy people and keep them that way, not make them sick. Given the seriousness of the situation, they may still approve but limit its use in less at risk populations? That said, I'm pretty amazed at how promising the results with the RNA vaccines have been so far in stage 2 and in animals. We may be on the verge of a big technological breakthrough with vaccines if RNA vaccine prove their efficacy and safety.
Click to expand...

Awesome, I hope that's the case!
 
Goatfish said:
I’m not an antivaxxer by any means but you’re right. This is unprecedented. For better or for worse - and it’s not that I don’t want to be a “guinea pig”, it’s that I want to make an assessment before lining up.



1. No, because any vaccine me or my kids have ever taken have been on the market for years and have been recommended by my doctor. I have looked at the VAERS data to debate my antivaxxer friends and discuss the risks/benefits, and used that information along with my doctors' recommendations to make calls on what I inject into my body.

2. "Consensus" doesn't exist for a vaccine that doesn't exist. I didn't say I wouldn't get the vaccine for sure, all I said is I was among the 70% who will "wait" since I want to have time to do my due diligence in regard to clinical trial data and consult with my doctor.

3. I have not "made up my mind", and I'm certainly more skeptical of an RNA vaccine (Pfizer/Moderna) than I would of an inactivated vaccine (Oxford). That's just due to the fact we have hard science and a long history of that type of vaccine being used safely and effectively.



It will be the first of its kind, that's the concern. I don't have much of a concern with an inactivated virus vaccine.

Guillain Barre syndrome is what I was referring to in reference to auto immune disease, which was seen when a vaccine was rushed in 1976:

"It was no surprise to me that, despite the fact he hadn't been born yet, Sean was familiar with the story of the swine flu vaccine of 1976. In January of that year, a new or novel virus began spreading at Fort Dix in New Jersey. Fearful that this new virus might cause a pandemic like the one in 1918, the United States rushed a vaccine through development. Within a year, nearly 25% of Americans had been vaccinated, around 45 million people. Without enough time to perform adequate safety trials, however, devastating side effects started to emerge. Hundreds of people developed Guillain-Barre syndrome, a paralysis that starts in the feet and slowly marches up your body. Several people also died, and for some, a fear of vaccination remains to this day. "

(He signed up for a coronavirus vaccine trial using a method that's never been used in humans. Here's why.).
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Apparently the risk of auto immune disease is present for vaccines in general? Even the long approved ones you are referring to as trusting. I didn't know that. I thought you meant it had something to do specifically with this type of vaccine. I don't see why you are singling this one out.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vaccination and autoimmune diseases: is prevention of adverse health effects on the horizon?

Autoimmune diseases, including multiple sclerosis and type 1 diabetes mellitus, affect about 5% of the worldwide population. In the last decade, reports have accumulated on various autoimmune disorders, such as idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura, myopericarditis, ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
dhodo said:
Apparently the risk of auto immune disease is present for vaccines in general? Even the long approved ones you are referring to as trusting. I didn't know that. I thought you meant it had something to do specifically with this type of vaccine. I don't see why you are singling this one out.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vaccination and autoimmune diseases: is prevention of adverse health effects on the horizon?

Autoimmune diseases, including multiple sclerosis and type 1 diabetes mellitus, affect about 5% of the worldwide population. In the last decade, reports have accumulated on various autoimmune disorders, such as idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura, myopericarditis, ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Thought this part was interesting.

"The relationship between vaccines and autoimmunity is bidirectional. On the one hand, the immunization prevents infectious diseases, and thus in turn prevents the development of an overt autoimmune disease which in some individuals is triggered by infections. Furthermore, Singh et al. [160] suggest that immunization with certain vaccines may stimulate the immune system to modulate or prevent the generation of pathogenic cells by the induction of regulatory cells, and thus prevent autoimmunity. The post-vaccination adverse events strongly suggest that vaccinations can trigger autoimmunity in a similar way to the infections to be prevented. In this way, vaccination should be considered as part of the mosaic of autoimmunity, in which abrogation of an autoimmune disease (and in the case of vaccination, the prevention of an autoimmune disease) could concomitantly induce another autoimmune disease."
 
Goatfish said:
I’m not an antivaxxer by any means but you’re right. This is unprecedented. For better or for worse - and it’s not that I don’t want to be a “guinea pig”, it’s that I want to make an assessment before lining up.



1. No, because any vaccine me or my kids have ever taken have been on the market for years and have been recommended by my doctor. I have looked at the VAERS data to debate my antivaxxer friends and discuss the risks/benefits, and used that information along with my doctors' recommendations to make calls on what I inject into my body.

2. "Consensus" doesn't exist for a vaccine that doesn't exist. I didn't say I wouldn't get the vaccine for sure, all I said is I was among the 70% who will "wait" since I want to have time to do my due diligence in regard to clinical trial data and consult with my doctor.

3. I have not "made up my mind", and I'm certainly more skeptical of an RNA vaccine (Pfizer/Moderna) than I would of an inactivated vaccine (Oxford). That's just due to the fact we have hard science and a long history of that type of vaccine being used safely and effectively.



It will be the first of its kind, that's the concern. I don't have much of a concern with an inactivated virus vaccine.

Guillain Barre syndrome is what I was referring to in reference to auto immune disease, which was seen when a vaccine was rushed in 1976:

"It was no surprise to me that, despite the fact he hadn't been born yet, Sean was familiar with the story of the swine flu vaccine of 1976. In January of that year, a new or novel virus began spreading at Fort Dix in New Jersey. Fearful that this new virus might cause a pandemic like the one in 1918, the United States rushed a vaccine through development. Within a year, nearly 25% of Americans had been vaccinated, around 45 million people. Without enough time to perform adequate safety trials, however, devastating side effects started to emerge. Hundreds of people developed Guillain-Barre syndrome, a paralysis that starts in the feet and slowly marches up your body. Several people also died, and for some, a fear of vaccination remains to this day. "

(He signed up for a coronavirus vaccine trial using a method that's never been used in humans. Here's why.).
Click to expand...
Apologies to assume you were an anti-vaxxer. A fair amount of skepticism is not really a bad thing I guess as long as you’re not immediately just discrediting something based on no information.
 
www.cnn.com

This doctor just endured the deadliest week of his career

Dr. Joseph Varon hasn’t had a day off in months. He leads the coronavirus unit at Houston’s United Memorial Medical Center. And last week was his toughest yet.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

www.npr.org

A Houston Doctor On His Hospital's 'Deadliest Week' So Far

Dr. Joseph Varon, chief of critical care at United Memorial Medical Center in Houston, says his staff is overworked, exhausted and emotionally drained.
www.npr.org www.npr.org


This doctor has lost the most patients in a single week ever in his career. All while people are calling his office and leaving threats because of all the media the doctor has been doing to say the threat is real. This is what is going on. People don't believe a word of what he says.

The interview also mentioned that this doctor seas young people out and about, partying and going on with their lives like there was no pandemic. No masks, no social distancing, no precautions.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
www.cnn.com

This doctor just endured the deadliest week of his career

Dr. Joseph Varon hasn’t had a day off in months. He leads the coronavirus unit at Houston’s United Memorial Medical Center. And last week was his toughest yet.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

www.npr.org

A Houston Doctor On His Hospital's 'Deadliest Week' So Far

Dr. Joseph Varon, chief of critical care at United Memorial Medical Center in Houston, says his staff is overworked, exhausted and emotionally drained.
www.npr.org www.npr.org


This doctor has lost the most patients in a single week ever in his career. All while people are calling his office and leaving threats because of all the media the doctor has been doing to say the threat is real. This is what is going on. People don't believe a word of what he says.

The interview also mentioned that this doctor seas young people out and about, partying and going on with their lives like there was no pandemic. No masks, no social distancing, no precautions.
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I'm no doctor, I don't know if and how effective Hydroxychloroquine is, I just have to trust the medical journals that say it is not effective (or at best anecdotally is effective early on), but I'm sure all these Trump doctors claiming it's a cure isn't helping this doctor's case if he's losing patients while there is a "cure" out there. it seems that some people don't want to understand why spreading bad information can be very problematic.

if there's a "cure" out there people are going to want it whether it's real or not.

 
dhodo said:
www.nytimes.com

The Coronavirus Infected Hundreds at a Georgia Summer Camp (Published 2020)

The camp took precautions but did not require campers to wear masks, the C.D.C. reported. Singing and cheering may have helped spread the virus.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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This one too from earlier this month:


and this one in Quebec... and here we're talking 3-11 year-olds with 12-14 year old camp counselors, so all very young.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

Nearly 20 secondary cases of COVID-19 linked to Boucherville day camp, bringing total cases to 46

The COVID-19 outbreak at a Boucherville day camp that has affected 27 people directly connected to the camp has now reached 19 others – an increase of about four secondary cases from a day before.
montreal.ctvnews.ca


There is definitely something to be concerned about and there is a lot we still need to learn when it comes young children and COVID. How are they so actively spreading this when good precautions are in place and it was believed that they were inefficient spreaders?
 
www.cnn.com

Indiana student tests positive for Covid-19 on first day of school

As an Indiana school district welcomed students to the 2020-21 academic year, one of their students tested positive for Covid-19 on the first day of class, according to a letter sent to parents.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
First day back at school and this school district already had to enact it's "Positive COVID-19 Test Protocol".

The student's test results came back positive while he was in class on the first day of school.

When the school district was notified of the positive result they immediately isolated the student within the school's clinic, and they examined the student's schedule, including transportation and extracurricular activities, to determine who had come in close contact.
 
I'm hearing that COVID-19 is also creation a lot of relationship health issues and is leading to lots of seperations.

For example, if one person in the relationship is taking COVID-19 Seriously and to the other person in the relationship it is no more than the flu / a hoax a lot of tension is forming leading to fights.

I just heard about a happy couple of 10 years having their first maritable trouble over this. The husband is taking this seriously and taking precautions and not going out if he doesn't have to. To the wife this is no different than the flu and she is taking no precautions. She wants to go out with her girlfriends constantly, more than ever after being stuck inside during the stay at home order.

Any talking to her about COVID-19 and maybe it's not a good idea to go out and party with your friends several nights a week now just because places are open again leads to fights. Big time fights. She doesn't want to adjust her social life and any mention of precautions is being controlling.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
I'm hearing that COVID-19 is also creation a lot of relationship health issues and is leading to lots of seperations.

For example, if one person in the relationship is taking COVID-19 Seriously and to the other person in the relationship it is no more than the flu / a hoax a lot of tension is forming leading to fights.

I just heard about a happy couple of 10 years having their first maritable trouble over this. The husband is taking this seriously and taking precautions and not going out if he doesn't have to. To the wife this is no different than the flu and she is taking no precautions. She wants to go out with her girlfriends constantly, more than ever after being stuck inside during the stay at home order.

Any talking to her about COVID-19 and maybe it's not a good idea to go out and party with your friends several nights a week now just because places are open again leads to fights. Big time fights. She doesn't want to adjust her social life and any mention of precautions is being controlling.
Click to expand...

I think this sort of thing is happening a lot in close family units right now-- I'm in my early 30s, two young kids, and I worry a lot about what my parents are doing and what my wife's parents are doing. We're being safe, really the only "risk" we take is sending our kids to daycare. But my FIL goes to a "socially distant" band practice in a big gym where they're all in masks and 12 feet apart, and my mom and my MIL play tennis (outdoors though so it's not actually a huge deal). And we constantly have to be on top of them about like, are you going to church? Are you going out to dinner with friends? Which is all really frustrating, since our parents are at a much higher risk than we are. I know a lot of my friends are dealing with the same issues, parents just not getting it / not caring / not paying attention or being safe, and it's frustrating. I can only imagine how hard it would be if one person within a marriage wasn't on board.
 
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