The Technics Turntable Fan Club - Questions, Advice, Discussion

I think @AnthonyI and I learned a lot this weekend about our respective setups.

I’d been using and aftermarket upgraded Jelco magnesium headshell. And with the Grados, it sounded really good, especially on the G. With the IPT RigB500 (modified A/T 540ML) it was just flat out bright. Not the sound signature I want at all. And the issue with the IPT couldn’t be attributed to excessive capacitance- while I’ve made sure my system can run any Grado made, it’s also optimized for current A/T cartridges. This was not intentional but a rather happy accident.

I’d not tried the factory headshell because I “knew” the Jelco was better. What the heck, I’ll try it. Damn if things weren’t miles better. Nice. Detailed without being analytical.

I still had the feeling that there was more to be had, so I bought a set of A/T headshell wires for $44. Don’t let anyone tell you it can’t make a difference. The difference is subtle but obvious in terms on clarity and a bit of added tone.

So we had also talked a lot about alignment. I’ve
always used Baerwald- nearly 40 years now. @AnthonyI had been using Loefgren. We had both avoided the factory alignment jig as it’s based on Stevenson which gives the lowest distortion at the inner grooves but higher over the rest of the playing surface. He tried the jig and reported positive results, so nothing ventured nothing gained right? He was right. Gone is the slight twist of the cartridge in the headshell, and the stylus sits back about 1mm from Baerwald. This tells me that Technics isn’t using true Stevenson but rather their own interpretation- true Stevenson would have the stylus farther rearward.

It’s far more convenient to align cartridges off of the turntable. That alone is game changing.

Things are dialed in now. The next move is to get two more factory headshells for the Grados and two sets of headshell wires. For good measure a new stylus for the Gold3 as well. It’s time. Hopefully all will arrive before I have to go back to work this weekend.

At this point, I’m pretty much there, I’m just pushing for that last 1-2%.

To say I am pleased with the G would be a massive understatement.
 
HiFi Guy said:
I think @AnthonyI and I learned a lot this weekend about our respective setups.

I’d been using and aftermarket upgraded Jelco magnesium headshell. And with the Grados, it sounded really good, especially on the G. With the IPT RigB500 (modified A/T 540ML) it was just flat out bright. Not the sound signature I want at all. And the issue with the IPT couldn’t be attributed to excessive capacitance- while I’ve made sure my system can run any Grado made, it’s also optimized for current A/T cartridges. This was not intentional but a rather happy accident.

I’d not tried the factory headshell because I “knew” the Jelco was better. What the heck, I’ll try it. Damn if things weren’t miles better. Nice. Detailed without being analytical.

I still had the feeling that there was more to be had, so I bought a set of A/T headshell wires for $44. Don’t let anyone tell you it can’t make a difference. The difference is subtle but obvious in terms on clarity and a bit of added tone.

So we had also talked a lot about alignment. I’ve
always used Baerwald- nearly 40 years now. @AnthonyI had been using Loefgren. We had both avoided the factory alignment jig as it’s based on Stevenson which gives the lowest distortion at the inner grooves but higher over the rest of the playing surface. He tried the jig and reported positive results, so nothing ventured nothing gained right? He was right. Gone is the slight twist of the cartridge in the headshell, and the stylus sits back about 1mm from Baerwald. This tells me that Technics isn’t using true Stevenson but rather their own interpretation- true Stevenson would have the stylus farther rearward.

It’s far more convenient to align cartridges off of the turntable. That alone is game changing.

Things are dialed in now. The next move is to get two more factory headshells for the Grados and two sets of headshell wires. For good measure a new stylus for the Gold3 as well. It’s time. Hopefully all will arrive before I have to go back to work this weekend.

At this point, I’m pretty much there, I’m just pushing for that last 1-2%.

To say I am pleased with the G would be a massive understatement.
Click to expand...
Apply all of the above to the GR as well. A lot of this trial and error, back and forth discussion, theory, and what not, went against so many things both of us have just come to accept as "how its supposed to be".

It was hard, using the overhang guage as described by Technics, then checking against a protractor and seeing it be off............but as always, let your ears be the judge. It is a ridiculous swing going from one of the known geometries to whatever Technics is using, but it was night and day. It may not sound like the G, but the GR is sounding amazing right now ;)
 
AnthonyI said:
Apply all of the above to the GR as well. A lot of this trial and error, back and forth discussion, theory, and what not, went against so many things both of us have just come to accept as "how its supposed to be".

It was hard, using the overhang guage as described by Technics, then checking against a protractor and seeing it be off............but as always, let your ears be the judge. It is a ridiculous swing going from one of the known geometries to whatever Technics is using, but it was night and day. It may not sound like the G, but the GR is sounding amazing right now ;)
Click to expand...
Interesting. I found Baerwald to be better on my PLX-1000 with the MP-300 than the Pioneer alignment, which is a wee bit different than the Technics alignment. I think that may stem from the lack of a true alignment gauge and having to eyeball the alignment with a steel ruler. A caliper would probably work better than a ruler, but the GeoDisc is easy and straightforward to use with the Jelco headshell.
 
Angsty said:
Interesting. I found Baerwald to be better on my PLX-1000 with the MP-300 than the Pioneer alignment, which is a wee bit different than the Technics alignment. I think that may stem from the lack of a true alignment gauge and having to eyeball the alignment with a steel ruler. A caliper would probably work better than a ruler, but the GeoDisc is easy and straightforward to use with the Jelco headshell.
Click to expand...
That's kind of the interesting thing, I never had issues with the PLX using Baerwald. So while I would have assumed the geometry between the PLX and GR were the same, I don't believe they are. The GR is much more revealing than the PLX, so I'm sure that plays into it as well.
 
Looking at these templates, it's fascinating to see the distortion differences between the alignments. Baerwald works for me, too, but you can see here how it differs from the manufacturers alignment. The simplicity of the manufacturer alignment does give up distortion at some points on the record.

www.ebay.com

Technics SL-1200 Mk2-Mk5 & SL-1210 series Custom Designed Alignment Protractor | eBay

Every tonearm is based on the following specifications We have a lot of experience and be sure you'll get our assistance! Best regards,LEGENDARY AUDIO.
www.ebay.com

www.ebay.com

Pioneer PLX-1000 Custom Designed Tonearm Cartridge Stylus Alignment Protractor | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Pioneer PLX-1000 Custom Designed Tonearm Cartridge Stylus Alignment Protractor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
 
Angsty said:
Looking at these templates, it's fascinating to see the distortion differences between the alignments. Baerwald works for me, too, but you can see here how it differs from the manufacturers alignment. The simplicity of the manufacturer alignment does give up distortion at some points on the record.

www.ebay.com

Technics SL-1200 Mk2-Mk5 & SL-1210 series Custom Designed Alignment Protractor | eBay

Every tonearm is based on the following specifications We have a lot of experience and be sure you'll get our assistance! Best regards,LEGENDARY AUDIO.
www.ebay.com

www.ebay.com

Pioneer PLX-1000 Custom Designed Tonearm Cartridge Stylus Alignment Protractor | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Pioneer PLX-1000 Custom Designed Tonearm Cartridge Stylus Alignment Protractor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
I’ll bet the Technics factory jig (the white diving board) does not match the Stevenson graph.

The thing I never understood was the difference in collar to stylus measurements between the Pioneer and the Technics. Pioneer specifies 54 mm while Technics says 52 mm. All of the measurements (arm length, overhang, pivot to spindle) are identical. Why the 2 mm difference?
 
HiFi Guy said:
The thing I never understood was the difference in collar to stylus measurements between the Pioneer and the Technics. Pioneer specifies 54 mm while Technics says 52 mm. All of the measurements (arm length, overhang, pivot to spindle) are identical. Why the 2 mm difference?
Click to expand...
The consensus on Vinyl Engine appeard to be that the PLX tonearm is actually 2 mm shorter than the Technics. Why? That’s still a mystery.

PLX-1000 overhang question- Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com www.vinylengine.com
 
HiFi Guy said:
The beast is up.

Setup isn’t absolutely perfect. Only level to 2 decimal points. Not 4. At MDs advice I am running the factory mat. VTA is off maybe .5 mm. Can’t get it quite low enough to be spot on with 140 gram records.

And you know what? I don’t care. The sound. Holy shit.

Noise floor is non existent.

Bass depth and slam is stupid-like I added a sub. Not kidding.

Not as bright sounding as the GR.

Crazy dynamics.

Which brings me to my immediate G-GR comparison. You can’t. They look similar, but other than that, they aren’t. The GR is fantastic. But the G?

Let’s put it this way- I just changed my vacation from one week to two.

Worth every penny, and then some.

View attachment 142605
Click to expand...
She's a beauty Clark!

TT upgrade is my next acquisition plan. Maybe at end of year when I can sell back some vacation time.
My Denon TT and 103R cart combo are great sounding for the prices invested but was looking at a GR potentially.

Now, this G makes me want to get something more higher end to stay with the level of my other components.
It's a damn rabbit hole but fun nonetheless.
Congrats on the new baby.
 
HiFi Guy said:
It’s got it, just not a helicoil like the GR/G. Loosen the lock, raise or lower the arm, tighten the lock. Similar to the way MoFi arms work.
Click to expand...
Well if I ever need a new table, and cannot get my dream table (VPI Classic) this will be at the top of my list! And comes with quite a respectable cartridge too I see. Might be something for @Ghost to try as a "Plan B" for him as well.
 
HiFi Guy said:
It’s got it, just not a helicoil like the GR/G. Loosen the lock, raise or lower the arm, tighten the lock. Similar to the way MoFi arms work.
Click to expand...

Given that it’s effectively a 1500c without a pre amp I might be a bit worried about the autolift given that there have been a few complaints that I’ve seen.
 
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