The football thread RenegadeMonster is looking for: NFL talk

debar22 said:
And I don’t know how you drafted Fields and not have an offense tailored for him even if you knew Dalton was going to be your starter to begin the season.
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It's rare for rookie QBs to thrive. (Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert, Baker was okay)

Kyler Murray
Cam Newton
Jared Goff
Deshaun Watson
Derek Carr
Jalen Hurts

All had trash rookie years.
 
Ponman2003 said:
It's rare for rookie QBs to thrive. (Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert, Baker was okay)

Kyler Murray
Cam Newton
Jared Goff
Deshaun Watson
Derek Carr
Jalen Hurts

All had trash rookie years.
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Cam and Kyler were both pretty good overall their rookie seasons though, right? (They each were offensive ROY).

A few others that were pretty good straight out the gate: Patrick Mahomes, Deshawn Watson, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Joe Burrow, and Lamar Jackson.

The common strand is they all played for big time college teams and were very mobile QBs. Obviously they’re are plenty that didn’t work out either but I think the trend is if you get a proven successful college QB and put him in an offense molded to the player as opposed to trying to mold the player to the offense good things happen. A QB can be successful right out the gate.
 
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debar22 said:
I was a huge fan of Nagy and what he did with Alex Smith with the Chiefs. He turned one of the most conservative QBs into one of the best deep ball throwers by his last year in KC. But he was never really the primary play caller, though Reid gave him some playcalling duties by the end of his last year.

He seems to be running the Bears offense as if they have more talent than they really do. You can play that way if you’ve got the Bucs’ skill positions or the Chiefs’. But they really have one legitimate receiver and a good back in Montgomery. And I don’t know how you drafted Fields and not have an offense tailored for him even if you knew Dalton was going to be your starter to begin the season.

Also, I don’t understand how Pace and their scouting dept can be so good at finding defensive guys (with the exception of the CBs this year) from anywhere (draft, FAs, trades), but be so awful on finding offensive talent.
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TenderLovingKiller® said:
Yeah. I am surprised Nagy is as bad as he is at it. Sometimes it’s good to have a coach who is just the head coach and I think that might be the case with Nagy. He seems to be well liked and he says the right things but he really has has yet to demonstrate that he can call a game. Things were so bad today though that I genuinely question his ability to even game plan.

Pace was a scout for the Saints and a Defensive End in college so I can understand why he would be better at scouting D than O but there shouldn’t be such a chasm between the two.
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This is, and has been, an organizational problem for a long time. Defenses win games. While I can get on board with that, this organization is too one sided. They're like little kids, "See, we drafted a great QB and nothing changed". Fields ended up in Chicago because the right jobs were on the line, fine, but as stated, now you have him, he has a lot of talent, work with his GOD GIVEN TALENT! Fields isn't Trubiski by any stretch, but even Mitch would have been a better QB if they didn't try and change him, yes, you need to adjust to the pro level of things, but you can't change the core talent of someone and expect them to be as good as they were with their raw talent.................that's what's going to happen with Fields. Nagy was a better coach/play caller when he didn't think as much, now the organization, as usual, got into his head and he's reading Bears 101 which was written 50 years ago. The organization doesn't have the ability to understand things change, yes the core plan is always there, but if you only work on making one part of the machine good, the rest is going to fall apart no matter what, do we want to go to the last Super Bowl appearance they had, the one they shouldn't have been in, and got thrashed? Let's not, lol
 
Ponman2003 said:
It's rare for rookie QBs to thrive. (Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert, Baker was okay)

Kyler Murray
Cam Newton
Jared Goff
Deshaun Watson
Derek Carr
Jalen Hurts

All had trash rookie years.
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as @TenderLovingKiller® said, Cam won rookie of the year , also Baker broke the (then) rookie TD pass record, while Hue Jackson was his HC for parts of the season! . His sophomore year was terrible though.


@Rip_City , the win against the Texans last week might not have been one if Tyrod Taylor didnt have to leave due to injury. i think that 2-1 record is fair and the Vikings will be a huge challenge for that team.

im not buying into the Browns D yet . highly suspect and Joe Woods should have a warmer seat than he has. maybe the Bears game is something to build on. Browns dont have a deep group on the D line and any injury could hurt that line big time.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Cam and Kyler were both pretty good overall their rookie seasons though, right? (They each were offensive ROY).

A few others that were pretty good straight out the gate: Patrick Mahomes, Deshawn Watson, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Joe Burrow, and Lamar Jackson.

The common strand is they all played for big time college teams and were very mobile QBs. Obviously they’re are plenty that didn’t work out either but I think the trend is if you get a proven successful college QB and put him in an offense molded to the player as opposed to trying to mold the player to the offense good things happen. A QB can be successful right out the gate.
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Kyler's rookie year was putrid. They went 3 and 13, only averaging 14 points...

Mahomes sat his rookie year. Lamar sat until Week 10.

Deshaun's first two games were abysmal!

Hou 7 - Jax 29
Hou 13 - Cinc 9

Russ, Dak, Joe Burrow, and Cam were all very good.

I'm just saying, let's give this dude a chance. His first game was a Week 3 road game against one of the nastiest d-lines in the league!
 
Ponman2003 said:
Kyler's rookie year was putrid. They went 3 and 13, only averaging 14 points...

Mahomes sat his rookie year. Lamar sat until Week 10.

Deshaun's first two games were abysmal!

Hou 7 - Jax 29
Hou 13 - Cinc 9

Russ, Dak, Joe Burrow, and Cam were all very good.

I'm just saying, let's give this dude a chance. His first game was a Week 3 road game against one of the nastiest d-lines in the league!
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Yah I find it hard to evaluate anything Justin did yesterday as that was just brutal yesterday. He had a few plays where he held it long / missed guys. But he's a rookie and those things will happen. Even more though, the game planning as a whole offensively was so grossly incompetent that only the Bears wouldn't fire Nagy after that showing.

I can't even begin to explain what Matt was thinking by literally refusing to change anything about this offense now that Justin is starting and not bringing in any additional blocking once you saw your 5 lineman had no shot (which even needing to see that and not knowing beforehand is insanity but it is what it is I guess).

I'm not sure if Nagy wanted to "prove" Justin wasn't ready to stroke his ego or he's really that incompetent as a coach and a play caller. Either way that was just gross to watch and having this team be an utter embarrassment 2 out of 3 weeks is really something (and the one win wasn't all that impressive either). It hurts to say but I almost hope this hard fighting Lions team comes into Soldier Field and beats the breaks off this team to seal Nagy and Pace's fate.
 
Ponman2003 said:
Kyler's rookie year was putrid. They went 3 and 13, only averaging 14 points...
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The Cards were bad, yes but it wasn’t necessarily Kyler’s fault. Murray finished his rookie season with 3,722 passing yards, 20 passing touchdowns, and 12 interceptions to go along with 544 rushing yards and four rushing touchdowns on 93 carries and was named offensive Rookie Of The Year and a Pro Bowl Alternate.
 
Ponman2003 said:
I'm just saying, let's give this dude a chance. His first game was a Week 3 road game against one of the nastiest d-lines in the league!
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I don’t think I have heard anyone blaming Fields for anything thus far. The issue is the Bears had 149 days to game plan for Fields eventual start and their game plan set him up to fail. Nagy and Pace are not good at their jobs.
 
BazookaTooth said:
I havent seen anyone hating on him, most people felt sorry for him from what i read.

also this :

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Yeah, Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson have been bad and things could end up not working out for them but The Jets and Jax both have rookie head coaches coaching teams coming off garbage seasons. The Bears have a head coach in his 4th season coming off a playoff season. With a very solid (albeit aging) Defense. Not great.
 
sahomerrocks said:
JP going directly into the NFL Hall of Fame but also into the Cash That Check HOF for his last 3 years of work

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I'm really glad the Bears let Leno walk so they could keep 5 TEs only to use none of them to help their 39 year old LT (who they had to sign because their rookie LT who barely played any LT at all got injured before even getting to training camp) block one of the top 3 pash rushers in the NFL.

Gross incompetence all over this Bears org
 
frodo-pkt said:
I'm really glad the Bears let Leno walk so they could keep 5 TEs only to use none of them to help their 39 year old LT (who they had to sign because their rookie LT who barely played any LT at all got injured before even getting to training camp) block one of the top 3 pash rushers in the NFL.

Gross incompetence all over this Bears org
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They could also, ya know, occasionally roll out their 230lb QB who runs a 4.4 they drafted in the 1st rd if they're gonna just keep running 5 man protections
 
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