Political Discussion

AnthonyI said:
Well your just no fun anymore................this early in the day I have to make light of things ;)
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This isn’t a fun topic, it’s serious.

I suppose I come from an equivalent English town to your “rust belt” and there has been a similar lurch to the right and towards conspiracies, military fetishism, racism portrayed as patriotism and towards everything being the fault of some large undefinable “left”.

I don’t agree with the positions but I understand the anger and why they have been able to take root, these areas were aggressively deindustrialised as a central government policy and no government of any colour ever sought to help these people rebuild. That does not make them all stupid or flat earthers, there are plenty of good people in these places and glib dismissals of them as some large equally absurd and undefinable “right” doesn’t help matters any more than the opposite.

Our politics were two homogeneous through the 90s and 00s and are too starkly divided into tribes now. We need to learn how to work together again, not how to “win”.
 
AnthonyI said:
That same 40% resides here ;)
View attachment 71343
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Now this is only a study of a bit over 2000 people so we can't necessarily infer that this is the same across the varied and diverse American households, but it is still concerning.
Joe Mac said:
Whatever about the 38% of Republicans, it’s the 18% of Democrats that I find astounding!
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Where Q gets it right is that there is a group of billionaires that have bought and paid for our politicians. If you just look at the outcomes of the Citizen's United case, what they found 10 years afterwards is that private individuals (not corporations) are funding 2/3rds to 3/4ths of all political campaigns right now. So I do agree that there is a group of billionaires that are basically playing oligarchs using politicians as their agents.
www.citizen.org

Ten Years After Citizens United - Public Citizen

A huge change happened on Jan. 21, 2010, with the Citizens United ruling. Here are 9 ways the case has eroded democracy and 1 place where it's helped.
www.citizen.org

Do I also agree that these same people were fine with looking the other way because everyone that traveled in his circles knew what Epstien was doing? Yes. Do I believe that they also engage in child sex trafficking's? No.

And yes @Joe Mac, you see the uptake of these ideas in rust belt areas where industry has been stripped and people either have no jobs or can only get minimum wage jobs. Given the massive amount of foreign investment in these sorts of towns over the past 20 years, only so they could be tax shelters for negligent billionaire owners, I can see where the whole, billionaires are ruining the world is coming from. This is a really good article about one of the most egregious actors, and yes, people did die because though these billionaires bought factories and buildings, they never did anything to update them for safety.

Over a decade, he[Kolomoisky] and his associates secretly amassed a real estate empire, buying at least 22 properties, including a skyscraper in Cleveland with vaulted ceilings that featured one of the largest bank lobbies in the world, a shuttered Motorola facility rising from the farm fields of northern Illinois and the former headquarters of Mary Kay Cosmetics in Dallas.

In his wake, Kolomoisky and his associates left a trail of empty, boarded-up buildings, unpaid property taxes, dangerous factory conditions, unemployed workers, and at least four steel mills that filed for bankruptcy, ICIJ found.

Under Kolomoisky’s ownership, hundreds of steelworkers in Kentucky, New York state and Ohio lost their jobs, and in one case, were left without insurance coverage or the ability to temporarily access their retirement funds, court records state.

“There are real people who are hurt by this,” said Michael Kelly, the mayor of Harvard, Illinois, where the city’s largest manufacturing plant, bought by Kolomoisky in 2008, was left vacant after the electricity was shut off and the property taxes went unpaid.

www.icij.org

With Deutsche Bank’s help, an oligarch’s buying spree trails ruin across the US heartland - ICIJ

Secret transactions, lost jobs, worker injuries, gutted buildings, unpaid bills: Ihor Kolomoisky’s untold American legacy.
www.icij.org www.icij.org

If you go on to read the piece Kolomoisky promised to revitalize these factories he bought and instead he never made any real investment to make them safe or to get them running if they were abandoned. I can see where these people tie the degradation of their cities and the loss of good paying jobs and safe working environments to billionaire's gone unchecked. So any sort of theory like this that paints them as children raping monsters seems like a somewhat logical jump given regular Amercians' experiences with the top 1%.

We shouldn't just shrug this off as wacky, uneducated people, but instead use this as a barometer to show how desperate people are willing to cling on to just about anything. Because what QAnon gives the people that believe in him is hope that someone will finally do something about people with more money than God ruining their communities.
 
Joe Mac said:
This isn’t a fun topic, it’s serious.

I suppose I come from an equivalent English town to your “rust belt” and there has been a similar lurch to the right and towards conspiracies, military fetishism, racism portrayed as patriotism and towards everything being the fault of some large undefinable “left”.

I don’t agree with the positions but I understand the anger and why they have been able to take root, these areas were aggressively deindustrialised as a central government policy and no government of any colour ever sought to help these people rebuild. That does not make them all stupid or flat earthers, there are plenty of good people in these places and glib dismissals of them as some large equally absurd and undefinable “right” doesn’t help matters any more than the opposite.

Our politics were two homogeneous through the 90s and 00s and are too starkly divided into tribes now. We need to learn how to work together again, not how to “win”.
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Against my better judgement...........

@Joe Mac , with all due respect, I'm tired. You're 100% right, but I'm tired, I'm tired of the constant barrage 24/7 over the last 4 years of this bull shit, I'm tired of seeing so many "true colors" being exposed, for better or worse, I'm tired of governments turning a blind eye to its population and their individual needs and concerns as a people, I'm tired of the last 7 months, I'm tired of seeing friends and family suffer due to loss of work, I'm tired of family not being able to say goodbye to their family members who were lost to a "Hoax" virus, I'm tired of all of it. And last night, I had to console my daughter, who lost a friend to suicide............because she was so afraid of what the world is becoming.

So excuse my moment of levity in order to help coupe with all this.
 
Joe Mac said:
We need to learn how to work together again, not how to “win”.
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This is an insidious thing, though: who's "we?" What does it mean to "work together" when the mission of one side's ideology is the destruction of the institution itself? What is "compromise" when the minority has disproportionate representation and no interest in actively governing? Where is the "middle" when the US version of the left wants basic healthcare protections, sensible tax policy, a plan to address climate change, a national coronavirus strategy, and effective mechanisms to reduce gun violence, and the US version of the right wants to cleanse the earth of the flesh-eating pedophiles who comprise the left?
 
I'm trying to find it, but I've seen an analogy of US politics and the Democratic party/GOP power struggle. I don't know what to search for to find the exact article or image I'm thinking of.

Basically, the analogy is that current politics are like a giant clicking wheel. Like a gear of sorts, but more like one of those party favor noisemaker toys. The GOP keeps pulling the wheel of ideology to the right. When the US elects Democrats into power that wheel stops turning to the right. It 'clicks' in at wherever it is for however many years until the GOP comes back in power. It doesn't move towards the left that much, just stays there. GOP come back into power and pushes everything to the right. Cycle keeps repeating itself, etc.

That's why Biden is conceived as a conservative with a lot of people. I'm not trying to knock down Biden but it's something I've thought of a lot lately. How the Democrats are basically just trying to stop fires that GOP sets every time they're in power. We need a big overhaul of the political system in this country to take us back to left and where most of the developed world is.
 
wokeupnew said:
I'm trying to find it, but I've seen an analogy of US politics and the Democratic party/GOP power struggle. I don't know what to search for to find the exact article or image I'm thinking of.

Basically, the analogy is that current politics are like a giant clicking wheel. Like a gear of sorts, but more like one of those party favor noisemaker toys. The GOP keeps pulling the wheel of ideology to the right. When the US elects Democrats into power that wheel stops turning to the right. It 'clicks' in at wherever it is for however many years until the GOP comes back in power. It doesn't move towards the left that much, just stays there. GOP come back into power and pushes everything to the right. Cycle keeps repeating itself, etc.

That's why Biden is conceived as a conservative with a lot of people. I'm not trying to knock down Biden but it's something I've thought of a lot lately. How the Democrats are basically just trying to stop fires that GOP sets every time they're in power. We need a big overhaul of the political system in this country to take us back to left and where most of the developed world is.
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Have you seen much world news recently. Lots of the rest of us seems to be flushing ourselves down that same far right toilet atm. Unrestricted gangster capitalism has created a fucking tonne of victims and they’re all angry as hell right now and lashing out. Granted we probably started from a point that was a bit more to the left.
 
Joe Mac said:
Have you seen much world news recently. Lots of the rest of us seems to be flushing ourselves down that same far right toilet atm. Unrestricted gangster capitalism has created a fucking tonne of victims and they’re all angry as hell right now and lashing out. Granted we probably started from a point that was a bit more to the left.
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Right, I'm not saying that the rest of the world is a utopian paradise but at least you're mostly 10 or 20 years ahead of us with socialized medicine and much more funding into public services. I'd love even a sliver of that.
 
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ranbalam said:
I've seen a lot of Trump 2020 flags that say:
End the Bullshit
I seriously don't really know what it's referring to. We're in Trump's America, so the bullshit is....what again? Ending it means what?
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My neighbor has one of those on his house (my 9 year old was appalled). In his defense (I guess) he put it up after his other sign was stolen. But, as you pointed out, I don't understand the cognitive dissonance that it takes to support an incumbent who is running on the "this place is f'ed and I need to fix it" line.

I voted today. I sure hope I don't change my mind in the next 10 days.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
This is an insidious thing, though: who's "we?" What does it mean to "work together" when the mission of one side's ideology is the destruction of the institution itself? What is "compromise" when the minority has disproportionate representation and no interest in actively governing? Where is the "middle" when the US version of the left wants basic healthcare protections, sensible tax policy, a plan to address climate change, a national coronavirus strategy, and effective mechanisms to reduce gun violence, and the US version of the right wants to cleanse the earth of the flesh-eating pedophiles who comprise the left?
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I mentioned the Biden video above and this was pretty much the situation. Someone called out the page, a page for school psychologists, for being political. Besides the fact that we have our job because of a political process (IDEA). Her complaint was that psychs must remain apolitical so that everyone feels safe to talk to us. She has a point, but we do have to draw the lines at unethical behavior from anyone, student, administrator, teacher, or world leader. The same goes for interpreting scientific information. We have to draw a line somewhere.
 
Feeling a little under the weather. I don't think it's COVID as I haven't gone anywhere in the last 3 weeks other than CVS to a flu shot 2 weekends ago and the grocery store last weekend. But they are sending me to get a COVID test tomorrow.

3 days ago I started feeling a little congested and having sinus pressure. Tension headaches at night. I thought it was season allergies, but then this morning when I wore up I had weakness of my facial and jaw muscles and them feeling a little tingly so I called my doctor, who apparently is still only doing virtual appointments. I made one for this afternoon, but then they called me back to cancel and refer me to get a COVID test.

Looks like I lucked out with that though. I'm not going to any kind of walk in clinic. The medical group I'm part of has a respiratory center in Danvers with appointments. You show up for your appointment. Checkin over the phone and wait in your car to be called in. No long lines or waiting rooms. They said they have the rapid test which should give me the results in 15 minutes. They will also provide all other services I would have gotten with any kind of sick visit with my doctor.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Feeling a little under the weather. I don't think it's COVID as I haven't gone anywhere in the last 3 weeks other than CVS to a flu shot 2 weekends ago and the grocery store last weekend. But they are sending me to get a COVID test tomorrow.

3 days ago I started feeling a little congested and having sinus pressure. Tension headaches at night. I thought it was season allergies, but then this morning when I wore up I had weakness of my facial and jaw muscles and them feeling a little tingly so I called my doctor, who apparently is still only doing virtual appointments. I made one for this afternoon, but then they called me back to cancel and refer me to get a COVID test.

Looks like I lucked out with that though. I'm not going to any kind of walk in clinic. The medical group I'm part of has a respiratory center in Danvers with appointments. You show up for your appointment. Checkin over the phone and wait in your car to be called in. No long lines or waiting rooms. They said they have the rapid test which should give me the results in 15 minutes. They will also provide all other services I would have gotten with any kind of sick visit with my doctor.
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good luck! hopefully it's not COVID! One thing it could also be, based on your symptoms is a Sinus Infection. You have most of the symptoms plus the face muscle pain and sinus pressure. I'm not a doctor but whenever I have gotten a little sick since March it's straight to google I go thinking I have it lol
 
www.politico.com

Biden eyes GOP candidates for Cabinet slots

Progressives fret as Joe Biden's transition team vets a handful of Republicans for his potential administration.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

Somebody wanna talk me off the cliff? Cause Joe’s doing a good job of making me waver for the first time.

If there is one thing I learned from Obama it's that a presidents cabinet is a transparent view of how they actually intend to govern regardless of rhetoric.

The Supreme Court is fucked either way at this point and I have no intention of voting for a new center that aligns Lincoln Project Republicans with wealthy suburbanite Dems in a way that results in progressives being even more shut out of the process.
 
Also, for the sake of my mental healthy, I’ve been shutting out politics for roughly the past two months and just waiting for November to happen.

But I got sent this article recently and it does a good job of summarizing how fucked things are for millennials financially.

—-

“Despite making up the largest portion of the workforce, millennials controlled just 4.6% of U.S. wealth through the first half of 2020, according to data from the Federal Reserve.

Baby boomers control over 53% of the country’s wealth, while Gen X accounts for just over 25% and the silent generation holds around 17%, according to the Fed’s data,

While it’s not abnormal for older generations to be wealthier than younger generations — they have had longer to earn money and accumulate assets, after all — the Fed’s data also shows that millennials have far less wealth than boomers did at the same age.

In 1989, when baby boomers were around the same age as millennials are today, they controlled 21% of the nation’s wealth. That’s almost five times as much as what millennials own today.

Many previous reports have found that millennials are, on average, worse off financially than their parents and grandparents were at the same age, despite being better educated.”

 
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
www.politico.com

Biden eyes GOP candidates for Cabinet slots

Progressives fret as Joe Biden's transition team vets a handful of Republicans for his potential administration.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

Somebody wanna talk me off the cliff? Cause Joe’s doing a good job of making me waver for the first time.

If there is one thing I learned from Obama it's that a presidents cabinet is a transparent view of how they actually intend to govern regardless of rhetoric.

The Supreme Court is fucked either way at this point and I have no intention of voting for a new center that aligns Lincoln Project Republicans with wealthy suburbanite Dems in a way that results in progressives being even more shut out of the process.
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Scroll back a few pages we already discussed this. All sorts of names are floated for cabinet positions. If you know anything about Joe Biden, he is a hardline old school Democrat and will fill his cabinet accordingly. Much greater probability his cabinet is filled with fellow Establishment Dems combine with a smattering of New Left progressives (I heard someone float Pramilla Jayapal as HUD Secretary for example). He may put a Token low stakes Republicans in a menial cabinet position (as has been the resent history outside of Trump) but if he is bringing any old white dudes into his cabinet I am pretty positive they will be Democrats.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
The Supreme Court is fucked either way at this point and I have no intention of voting for a new center that aligns Lincoln Project Republicans with wealthy suburbanite Dems in a way that results in progressives being even more shut out of the process.
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
“Baby boomers control over 53% of the country’s wealth, while Gen X accounts for just over 25% and the silent generation holds around 17%, according to the Fed’s data,

While it’s not abnormal for older generations to be wealthier than younger generations — they have had longer to earn money and accumulate assets, after all — the Fed’s data also shows that millennials have far less wealth than boomers did at the same age.

In 1989, when baby boomers were around the same age as millennials are today, they controlled 21% of the nation’s wealth. That’s almost five times as much as what millennials own today.

Many previous reports have found that millennials are, on average, worse off financially than their parents and grandparents were at the same age, despite being better educated.”

Click to expand...
And this is where things are really starting to worry me.
I'm on the late end of X-ers (1979) and my parents are boomers. I love my parents, but they have no real idea what it's like to see purchasing power devolve the way it has. Here's your chart of the day:
1603388168728.png

My parents are a bit less obtuse but their generation doesn't understand that just because you see TVs going down in price, that must mean the economy is fine, and the X-ers, Millinials, and even Gen-Z are just "lazy and entitled". When we try to complain that housing, healthcare and education (including child care) as risen far above inflation and that wages have fallen woefully short, they just cite that consumer electrics and clothing are way cheaper now. The problem is that most of them are on the back end of old mortgages and are reaping the benefits of high house prices, have no need for education or child care, and are almost all on Medicare now. They don't understand the pressure we live under. Many older finance professionals still tout the rule that you should spend no more than 30% of your budget on housing. They don't understand that there is no housing available that is that affordable for the majority of American families. Boomers and Silents aren't leaving Congress or the Courts, and thanks to new medical advances that wealthier individuals can reap the benefits of, they are living longer and can stick around. We have such an imbalance between the rulers and the ruled, and this is never good, historically speaking. Nancy Pellosi with her ice cream could have just as easily said ,"Let them eat cake".

I've touched on how a small number of wealthy elite are buying candidates and that's a big problem too. I see politicians pass laws that only benefit the wealthy elites, but my parents will keep voting republican because socialism is a dirty word to most Silents and Boomers.
 
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