Pre-Order Thread

Corycm said:
BullMoose is taking a limited number number of the indie/signed litho version. Their listing wasn’t clear if stateside were getting the splatter (the sheet just says clear, but I haven’t seen any mention of a plain clear with autograph on the label site, so I suspect it is the same as the UK indies).
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I thought this was little tidbit was interesting.

Demon Records presents Distortion: 1989-1995, the first in a series of four expansive vinyl box sets chronicling the solo career of legendary American musician Bob Mould.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
No, I am sure many consumers were and are Racist. Unfortunately that is how the world works my point is that these countries overcame these negative stereotypes by improving their production quality (for better or worse). China may do the same (though the Communist regime likely hinders that development) but at this point they are not yet there. Even once the quality improves (and it has improved) it will take a bit of time likely a generation for those beliefs to change. My Grandpa would have rather died than drive a Japanese car. I have only driven Japanese cars (that are likely at least partially manufactured in the Southern US or Mexico). The reputation of Kia and Hyundai have improved greatly over the past 20 years. The same could happen with Chinese manufactured goods but they are not there yet.
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I understand the point you are trying to make, however the point I am trying to make is regardless of quality control no country should be called out in such a racist, derogatory fashion. It's perfectly fine to criticize their standards and hope they improve ( I actually have more faith that the Communist regime will make things better, based on Xi's handling of corruption and other scandals that have taken place there but that's a discussion for another thread). All I'm trying to say is, you can criticize quality without being racist or derogatory to an entire population. We are better than that and by stooping to such generalizations is just lazy and uncalled for.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
No, I am sure many consumers were and are Racist. Unfortunately that is how the world works my point is that these countries overcame these negative stereotypes by improving their production quality (for better or worse). China may do the same (though the Communist regime likely hinders that development) but at this point they are not yet there. Even once the quality improves (and it has improved) it will take a bit of time likely a generation for those beliefs to change. My Grandpa would have rather died than drive a Japanese car. I have only driven Japanese cars (that are likely at least partially manufactured in the Southern US or Mexico). The reputation of Kia and Hyundai have improved greatly over the past 20 years. The same could happen with Chinese manufactured goods but they are not there yet.
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I see what you mean, and there is definitely truth to that, but I guess I just don't see it as that simple. In the same period of time, it also became less acceptable to be racist against Japanese and Korean people. So I think it is a combination of those factors. It seems like for whatever reason, probably because they are not a political ally, that hasn't really occurred with China. There are components made in China in pretty much everything these days, even very high quality brands, especially including those Japanese and Korean companies that are held in high regard. Obviously the flip side exists, but the fault and intention lies with each company in my opinion, not any country as a whole.
 
dhodo said:
I see what you mean, and there is definitely truth to that, but I guess I just don't see it as that simple. In the same period of time, it also became less acceptable to be racist against Japanese and Korean people. So I think it is a combination of those factors. It seems like for whatever reason, probably because they are not a political ally, that hasn't really occurred with China. There are components made in China in pretty much everything these days, even very high quality brands, especially including those Japanese and Korean companies that are held in high regard. Obviously the flip side exists, but the fault and intention lies with each company in my opinion, not any country as a whole.
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I get it. Their QC is much improved on certain things (my iPhone, which I love was likely entirely constructed there) but they still make a lot stuff that is not quality (part of it is they just make a lot of stuff in general) and my point if their are overall production quality improves so will the Country’s reputation. I couldn’t care less where something is made or who made it speaking purely from a consumer standpoint, all that matter is price and quality as it currently stands many of China’s manufacturer have not found that balance and as such their reputation suffers. I get it’s hard to separate race from the subject matter entirely but if we did these many would still have Quality concerns with many Chinese manufactured products.
 
blissfullychaotic said:
I understand the point you are trying to make, however the point I am trying to make is regardless of quality control no country should be called out in such a racist, derogatory fashion. It's perfectly fine to criticize their standards and hope they improve ( I actually have more faith that the Communist regime will make things better, based on Xi's handling of corruption and other scandals that have taken place there but that's a discussion for another thread). All I'm trying to say is, you can criticize quality without being racist or derogatory to an entire population. We are better than that and by stooping to such generalizations is just lazy and uncalled for.
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Putting myself out there for this one. So I hope it is not taken as a slight or insult.

So my world view is, not as open as it should be. Not because of pushing information away but from lack of being able to find information and to be honest, apathy at times. So this is what I ask. Is generalization the problem or is this specific generalization the problem?
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I get it. Their QC is much improved on certain things (my iPhone, which I love was likely entirely constructed there) but they still make a lot stuff that is not quality (part of it is they just make a lot of stuff in general) and my point if their are overall production quality improves so will the Country’s reputation. I couldn’t care less where something is made or who made it speaking purely from a consumer standpoint, all that matter is price and quality as it currently stands many of China’s manufacturer have not found that balance and as such their reputation suffers. I get it’s hard to separate race from the subject matter entirely but if we did these many would still have Quality concerns with many Chinese manufactured products.
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I do think if there was a Chinese brand that became very popular and loved it would help that reputation. It does seem that where they fall short at least in the western markets is in their own intellectual property as they have certainly proven they can manufacture intellectual property from other countries well. I think the only brands that comes to mind as having a good reputation are OnePlus and TCL (not sure it is a good example since it has a reputation of being a budget brand, but it is considered good bang for buck). I'm probably forgetting others, but they don't seem to have made that leap in ubiquity in lots of other industries like Japan and Korea.

Edit: oh I forgot Lenovo. I didn't know they were Chinese.
 
dhodo said:
I do think if there was a Chinese brand that became very popular and loved it would help that reputation. It does seem that where they fall short at least in the western markets is in their own intellectual property as they have certainly proven they can manufacture intellectual property from other countries well. I think the only brands that comes to mind as having a good reputation are OnePlus and TCL (not sure it is a good example since it has a reputation of being a budget brand, but it is considered good bang for buck). I'm probably forgetting others, but they don't seem to have made that leap in ubiquity in lots of other industries like Japan and Korea.

Edit: oh I forgot Lenovo. I didn't know they were Chinese.
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And sometimes cheap is good too. Craftsmen tools are great but I am way more likely to to go to Harbor Freight and pick up a Chinese made tool for a fraction of the cost when I am in a pinch.
 
A huge amount of high-end audio is Made in China -- from speakers to I think even my beloved PrimaLuna amps? Vincent, Parasound, GoldenEar, the class leader in SACD/CD was Oppo until they discontinued, and yes, all the Apple as well all come to mind. It's a country of 1.2B (ish?) -- they make a fairly broad range things quite well and like any bell curve -- some at the other end of that spectrum. Often, much of the worst might be spec jobs for companies based right in wherever your respective home town might be....
 
AudioAce said:
Putting myself out there for this one. So I hope it is not taken as a slight or insult.

So my world view is, not as open as it should be. Not because of pushing information away but from lack of being able to find information and to be honest, apathy at times. So this is what I ask. Is generalization the problem or is this specific generalization the problem?
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I think it's beyond generalization in that (I think) it brings us into "systemic" territory, meaning that we are enculturated in such a way that certain generalizations become a part of our unconscious thought/processing. Obviously, when these are derogatory and involve stereotyping of an entire race/culture/type of person, they are harmful and somewhat insidious in that they are, as I noted, relatively unconscious. Taking myself as an example, I wouldn't have thought twice about the 'made in China' comment, and I understand where @TenderLovingKiller® is coming from with his specific references, but @blissfullychaotic's comments brought me up short because they forced me to go beyond the reflexive/unconscious way of thinking about 'made in China' to consider that, indeed, there's a hell of a lot to unpack there.
 
Look, an entire country is not the same. Have you been to a good store or restaurant in your home country? Have you been to a bad store or restaurant in your home country?

Do you think that every store or restaurant in your country is the same as one of those experiences you had?

Thats the problem. Don't paint an entire population with a single brush.

Any way, THIS is Made In China:

 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
And sometimes cheap is good too. Craftsmen tools are great but I am way more likely to to go to Harbor Freight and pick up a Chinese made tool for a fraction of the cost when I am in a pinch.
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Most non-industrial Craftsman are made in China/Asia now too! Not to take away from your point though.
 
AudioAce said:
Putting myself out there for this one. So I hope it is not taken as a slight or insult.

So my world view is, not as open as it should be. Not because of pushing information away but from lack of being able to find information and to be honest, apathy at times. So this is what I ask. Is generalization the problem or is this specific generalization the problem?
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The issue is using racist derogatory remarks against any country / population. I know this was acceptable in the past but I want to believe in a future where we can use language that isn't geared to making a population feel they are inferior.

Generalizations as a whole are just lazy and boring, and maybe that's just my perspective, but I hold us all to a high standard because I truly believe we are good people and sometimes second nature and habits get the best of us. But without having these discussions or being silent when racist comments are made allows it to seem natural and normal, when in reality it shouldn't be normal.
 
Russ I said:
I think it's beyond generalization in that (I think) it brings us into "systemic" territory, meaning that we are enculturated in such a way that certain generalizations become a part of our unconscious thought/processing. Obviously, when these are derogatory and involve stereotyping of an entire race/culture/type of person, they are harmful and somewhat insidious in that they are, as I noted, relatively unconscious. Taking myself as an example, I wouldn't have thought twice about the 'made in China' comment, and I understand where @TenderLovingKiller® is coming from with his specific references, but @blissfullychaotic's comments brought me up short because they forced me to go beyond the reflexive/unconscious way of thinking about 'made in China' to consider that, indeed, there's a hell of a lot to unpack there.
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It’s all connected for sure and China the Country and the Chinese race are completely different. It just gets sticky sometimes when the two are conflated. It is okay to not agree with the a Country’s business or labor practices and still love and respect the people and the culture. Unfortunately sometimes the two are unfairly bound together.
 
this got restocked all you SU fans:

www.iam8bit.com

Steven Universe 4 x 10” Vinyl Set

4xLP 10” Translucent Colored Vinyl for Cartoon Network release of Steven Universe 4 x 10” Vinyl Set. Complete Vol. 1 Soundtrack. Album Art by Chromosphere. iam8bit creates unique, exclusive and limited merchandise. Collector’s Edition physical games to vinyl soundtracks, fine art prints and beyond.
www.iam8bit.com www.iam8bit.com
 
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