Political Discussion

[jaycee]

Do registered republican voters oppose of impeachment because they believe Trump did nothing wrong? Or do they just love him and feel like supporting their guy?

The reasons why are somewhat complicated but the short answer is Yes to both.

Today's the daily gets into this somewhat through the lens of the KY gov's race

How Impeachment Consumed a Governor’s Race (Published 2019)

Kentucky’s unpopular Republican governor was facing a losing battle. So he turned to President Trump, and a polarized political landscape, for help.

www.nytimes.com

I've stated this opinion many times over here but will reiterate that American voters choose teams, essentially gangs, and generally believe whatever propaganda they have been fed about the other gang. Blues love to call Reds dumb and Reds luv to call Blues extremists. Politics in the U.S. isn't about a shared morality (right and wrong). It's about narratives that are mostly comprised of propaganda that has been fed to each team over decades... some of them have been fed for centuries. Your individual logic is not anyone else's, except maybe those people that are on whatever team we also play for.

This is why in 2020 we are still talking about the same problems we were talking about in 1992 or in 2000 or in 2008. Recently the reds have been much more successful than the blues in their campaigns to "convince" their team members of certain stories.

Edit:
Sometimes I feel like younger folks, who haven't been living with how screwed up this all is for as long, think that everyone that has come before them must be some kind-of grand idiot that hasn't recognized the problems and the causes of the problems. That they are the first to realize these issues because how in the hell could people keep voting for the same old mess? Once you start to answer that why ...it all makes a lot more sense

 

[ayayrawn]

I have a friend who is a leans heavily conservative and is a huge American history buff. He believes that nothing released so far is a smoking gun for impeachment and that the democrats set a dangerous precedent by opening up the inquiry.

Sounds like your friend is letting his own personal biases cloud the obvious.

 

[jaycee]

I have a friend who is a leans heavily conservative and is a huge American history buff. He believes that nothing released so far is a smoking gun for impeachment and that the democrats set a dangerous precedent by opening up the inquiry.

What does he say about all the testimonies that confirm quid pro quo?

So what would a smoking gun be?

There definitely has been collusion, quid pro quo and obstruction of justice. Not to mention ethical violations.

Impeachment isn't a criminal offense. Whether there is obvious quid pro quo or not (there is), the move to impeach (which isn't going to happen in the senate regardless) is ultimately about putting a stain on Trump.

I personally doubt that stain will sway many if any voters (see my post above).

Given yesterday's results I'm curious if the Reds abandon Trump for Pence - a much more dangerous person. If they end up promoting Pence over Trump in the 2020 election I don't see any Blue beating him

 

[Twentytwo]

What does he say about all the testimonies that confirm quid pro quo?

So what would a smoking gun be?

There definitely has been collusion, quid pro quo and obstruction of justice. Not to mention ethical violations.

I think he thinks that Trump did what he believes all presidents do and that is use the presidency to get what they want when they want it. I disagree with him totally. When I brought up Clinton and how the investigation started with Paula Jones, then Whitewater, then Monica Lewinsky to, he said well Clinton lied under oath that is why he got impeached. I think he thinks what Trump did was akin to the Bill Clinton/Loretta Lynch run in.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Stole some Republican seats too.

Democratic Socialists Had a Pretty Good Election Night

Several of the victories were in purple states.

www.vice.com

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Also, a pro education Dem (who refers to healthcare as a basic human right) just won the governor race in Kentucky against a guy that Trump put a ton of energy into backing.

But the race was close, so Republicans are being predictably difficult.

Kentucky Gov. Bevin calls for vote recanvass as he refuses to concede

The governor insisted, without evidence, that "irregularities" had made a recount necessary.

www.google.com

Senate president: Kentucky governor's race could be decided by state legislature

After Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin refused to concede to Andy Beshear, Senate President Robert Stivers said the GOP-held legislature may get the final say

www.courier-journal.com

 

[ayayrawn]

Also, a pro education Dem (who refers to healthcare as a basic human right) just won the governor race in Kentucky against a guy that Trump put a ton of energy into backing.

But the race was close, so Republicans are being predictably difficult.

Kentucky Gov. Bevin calls for vote recanvass as he refuses to concede

The governor insisted, without evidence, that "irregularities" had made a recount necessary.

www.google.com

Senate president: Kentucky governor's race could be decided by state legislature

After Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin refused to concede to Andy Beshear, Senate President Robert Stivers said the GOP-held legislature may get the final say

www.courier-journal.com

As expected. If they try that shit, I'm burning the capital building down.

 

[dbarila]

Impeachment isn't a criminal offense. Whether there is obvious quid pro quo or not (there is), the move to impeach (which isn't going to happen in the senate regardless) is ultimately about putting a stain on Trump.

I personally doubt that stain will sway many if any voters (see my post above).

Given yesterday's results I'm curious if the Reds abandon Trump for Pence - a much more dangerous person. If they end up promoting Pence over Trump in the 2020 election I don't see any Blue beating him

Really. I don't see Pence firing up a base to win an election.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

They better not leave the governors victory in the hands of the state legislature.

I don't see it happening though. Didn't I hear the fact that Andy Beshear won was great news for Mitch McConnel? Any Beshear was Mitch's opposition in back in the 2014 senate race. Now there is no clear opponent that will oppose him.

 

[Twentytwo]

Really. I don't see Pence firing up a base to win an election.

If the Republicans where to get rid of both of Trump and Pence and run Nikki Haley, no democrat would have a shot in hell of winning.

 

[jaycee]

Really. I don't see Pence firing up a base to win an election.

Trump is and comes across as a bloviated idiot. Pence is controlled and religious, and more of the brains behind the operation. That goes a long-way for any remaining evangelicals that haven't sold-out their b.s. faith for political gains and lessens the negative impact that Trump's attitude and sexual misconduct has in the fiscally conservative suburbs, where women are voting blue while their husbands vote red.

The only advantage the Dems have if Pence becomes the candidate is that he might not show-up to debates for fear of being on stage alone with a woman.

If Trump becomes untenable in the next few months don't be surprised if he bails to Mar-a-lago and a new reality TV series and Pence becomes the nominee.

 

[jaycee]

A co-worker passed this on to me and there was enough humor in it to make the depressing truth it expresses worth the read

The Dictionary of Capitalism ❧ Current Affairs

<p>Translating contemporary euphemisms.</p>

www.currentaffairs.org

Also the trans case before the supreme court was discussed on the daily today and I would urge everyone to just listen to the first 5 minutes where the plaintiff in the case reads her own letter, written to her employer, expressing her experience to her employer who then fired her. It's the sort of honesty and naked emotion that does the body and soul some good to hear.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

Just read a disturbing article about the effects of Job Booms.

This one article focused on Midland Texas and the fracking industry. Fracking brought in jobs, good paying middle wage jobs. However, as result of increased jobs in the area rent and housing prices soared pasts the costs rent/housing and Dallas, Fort Worth and Huston resulting and in locals being priced out. Those living in the area already who are not part of the fracking industry could no longer afford their rent nor could they afford to buy any homes on the market. They were forced to relocate or go homeless.

Sure demand for housing in a rural area went up as jobs were created faster than new housing. However, should housing costs be allowed to increase to the extent that only those working the new jobs can afford them? Should everyone already living in the area see their rent triple within a year or two when they renew their leases and be forced out for those who can afford that rent?

 

[GritNGlitter]

Just read a disturbing article about the effects of Job Booms.

This one article focused on Midland Texas and the fracking industry. Fracking brought in jobs, good paying middle wage jobs. However, as result of increased jobs in the area rent and housing prices soared pasts the costs rent/housing and Dallas, Fort Worth and Huston resulting and in locals being priced out. Those living in the area already who are not part of the fracking industry could no longer afford their rent nor could they afford to buy any homes on the market. They were forced to relocate or go homeless.

Sure demand for housing in a rural area went up as jobs were created faster than new housing. However, should housing costs be allowed to increase to the extent that only those working the new jobs can afford them? Should everyone already living in the area see their rent triple within a year or two when they renew their leases and be forced out for those who can afford that rent?

I mean, this has been an ongoing question in cities around the country, especially any that are part of a "tech boom."

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Just read a disturbing article about the effects of Job Booms.

This one article focused on Midland Texas and the fracking industry. Fracking brought in jobs, good paying middle wage jobs. However, as result of increased jobs in the area rent and housing prices soared pasts the costs rent/housing and Dallas, Fort Worth and Huston resulting and in locals being priced out. Those living in the area already who are not part of the fracking industry could no longer afford their rent nor could they afford to buy any homes on the market. They were forced to relocate or go homeless.

Sure demand for housing in a rural area went up as jobs were created faster than new housing. However, should housing costs be allowed to increase to the extent that only those working the new jobs can afford them? Should everyone already living in the area see their rent triple within a year or two when they renew their leases and be forced out for those who can afford that rent?

Not to mention that fracking destroys local water supplies, causes gas leaks and isn't a sustainable long term option. But either way, sounds about right and not dissimilar to what the tech industry did to SF and is now doing to LA (as I see GlitNGlitter already mentioned).

Also, The Nation ran a well worded anti-endorsement of Biden today:

'The Answer Is Not Joe Biden': The Nation Magazine Issues Official Anti-Endorsement | Common Dreams

"Stumbling through the primaries, Biden's zombie campaign crowds out worthier challengers, handing Trump a free pass on the very issues that should be his Achilles' heel."

www.commondreams.org

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

An important read- one spawned by Politico's founder coming out and writing an article about centrist bias in the media that aimed to re-examine his own beliefs.

A key paragraph:

"The centrist ideology is not mere institutionalism, though that’s part of it. It’s a very specific vision of how the world works, one that forms the background of a lot of Washington conversations and political debates — invisible until you notice it and then all of a sudden pervasive.

It is, also, quite unpopular: One study found just 3.8 percent of American voters could fairly be described as right-leaning on economic issues and left-leaning on social ones. Far more voters are fairly described as populist — right-leaning on social issues, left-leaning on economic ones — yet such a view has comparatively weak representation in American politics (Trump may talk like an economic populist, but he sure hasn’t governed like one)."

The media’s biggest bias is its centrism

A dean of DC reporting admits an uncomfortable truth about the press.

www.vox.com

 

[RenegadeMonster]

Not to mention that fracking destroys local water supplies, causes gas leaks and isn't a sustainable long term option. But either way, sounds about right and not dissimilar to what the tech industry did to SF and is now doing to LA (as I see GlitNGlitter already mentioned).

Also, The Nation ran a well worded anti-endorsement of Biden today:

'The Answer Is Not Joe Biden': The Nation Magazine Issues Official Anti-Endorsement | Common Dreams

"Stumbling through the primaries, Biden's zombie campaign crowds out worthier challengers, handing Trump a free pass on the very issues that should be his Achilles' heel."

www.commondreams.org

I'm aware. I work in Boston which is either the second or third most expensive housing costs in the Nation.

For me the Tech Boom brought up prices long before I had a job in Boston, so I never saw Rent go up double or triple in just a year or two. And I don't think it ever went up that fast. Sure I see my rent to up $50 to $100 a month each year when I renew my lease, but it's not like going from $450 a month to $1500 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment like some of these rural communities have seen.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I'm aware. I work in Boston which is either the second or third most expensive housing costs in the Nation.

For me the Tech Boom brought up prices long before I had a job in Boston, so I never saw Rent go up double or triple in just a year or two. And I don't think it ever went up that fast. Sure I see my rent to up $50 to $100 a month each year when I renew my lease, but it's not like going from $450 a month to $1500 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment like some of these rural communities have seen.

I've had rent go up by $500 dollar in a single year on me in Los Angeles (back in 2014). I'm also from Colorado originally and a lot of my friends there have experienced massive rent increases there.

 

[GritNGlitter]

I'm aware. I work in Boston which is either the second or third most expensive housing costs in the Nation.

For me the Tech Boom brought up prices long before I had a job in Boston, so I never saw Rent go up double or triple in just a year or two. And I don't think it ever went up that fast. Sure I see my rent to up $50 to $100 a month each year when I renew my lease, but it's not like going from $450 a month to $1500 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment like some of these rural communities have seen.

Cities probably have slightly better renter protections than random Texas podunks, but I saw very close to that in San Jose in the 1990s.

 

[Twentytwo]

Well this is interesting!

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