Pre-Order Thread

Indymisanthrope said:
Geez...I don't mean to be a scold, but sometimes it's striking how you barely have to zoom out at all to see how just how much emphasis is placed on sexualizing women in music. These are just from this month so far:

















There are exceptions. This month I've seen album covers from MUNA, Laura Veirs, Beth Gibbons, and The Montvales that didn't lean on the musicians' bodies to grab your attention. But even in this anecdotal round-up, they're being outnumbered 2 to 1. Kind of a distressing state of affairs.

Edit: I realize now that I only quoted @Twentytwo in this post, but this wasn't a shot at him whatsoever. He's just a superhuman preorder poster.
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The issue you raise is very evident and certainly telling of how they market women. But at least with the Nenni cover she isn't what makes it great (not that she can't be on her own album cover or dress however she wants to on it), but the rest of the styling of it is what really pops imo.
 
Hemotep said:
The issue you raise is very evident and certainly telling of how they market women. But at least with the Nenni cover she isn't what makes it great (not that she can't be on her own album cover or dress however she wants to on it), but the rest of the styling of it is what really pops imo.
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I would probably agree that it’s the least egregious example here, but the photo/outfit/pose combination are not entirely incidental, either.

I don’t want to nitpick any artist’s agency about what they want to share or not share (god knows there’s an entire thread about complaining about Lizzo’s choice to sexualize herself), so I don’t want to get too far into the weeds about any particular album art. I’ve just gotten attuned to it in this thread lately.

Especially in the old forum there used to be these circular debates about representation in music, and there would always be a cohort arguing that if there are just fewer women in music then there will naturally be fewer ‘classics’ by them to curate for collections. Seeing a sustained record of the pressure they’re under to be a complete “package” really underscores the weakness of that argument.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I would probably agree that it’s the least egregious example here, but the photo/outfit/pose combination are not entirely incidental, either.

I don’t want to nitpick any artist’s agency about what they want to share or not share (god knows there’s an entire thread about complaining about Lizzo’s choice to sexualize herself), so I don’t want to get too far into the weeds about any particular album art. I’ve just gotten attuned to it in this thread lately.

Especially in the old forum there used to be these circular debates about representation in music, and there would always be a cohort arguing that if there are just fewer women in music then there will naturally be fewer ‘classics’ by them to curate for collections. Seeing a sustained record of the pressure they’re under to be a complete “package” really underscores the weakness of that argument.
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When I did a monthly spin challenge I purposely asked for a record where the artist wasn’t on the cover. You really have to look to find cases where a female artist is not pictured on the cover.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I would probably agree that it’s the least egregious example here, but the photo/outfit/pose combination are not entirely incidental, either.

I don’t want to nitpick any artist’s agency about what they want to share or not share (god knows there’s an entire thread about complaining about Lizzo’s choice to sexualize herself), so I don’t want to get too far into the weeds about any particular album art. I’ve just gotten attuned to it in this thread lately.

Especially in the old forum there used to be these circular debates about representation in music, and there would always be a cohort arguing that if there are just fewer women in music then there will naturally be fewer ‘classics’ by them to curate for collections. Seeing a sustained record of the pressure they’re under to be a complete “package” really underscores the weakness of that argument.
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Also, it’s okay to put an attractive man or woman on an album cover. I understand that women are often objectify and it’s certainly different if these artist are being coerced but also let’s not eliminate beauty from album covers, magazine covers, or art in general. There is a subset of people that would jerk off to the Walmart insert in the local newspaper can we assume that the vast majority of humanity can appreciate a beautiful figure without getting a boner especially in instance where the person featured is happy with it?
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Also, it’s okay to put an attractive man or woman on an album cover. I understand that women are often objectify and it’s certainly different if these artist are being coerced but also let’s not eliminate beauty from album covers, magazine covers, or art in general. There is a subset of people that would jerk off to the Walmart insert in the local newspaper can we assume that the vast majority of humanity can appreciate a beautiful figure without getting a boner especially in instance where the person featured is happy with it?
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Yep, it's totally fine in the abstract. The difference is that if you go back through the same time period in this thread, you won't find a single album cover gazing at a male artist in the same way. Conscious or not, we just don't have the same level of expectation about being able to see male artists' bodies, much less that those bodies' worth is measured by whether they're f*ck*ble.
 
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As to women in music/cover art, if they are exploited then that is most unfortunate and is wrong.
If they choose to be risqué then so be it.
I am not in charge of how they want to be depicted.
A modicum of decency and style would be my preference but I am interested in how the music sounds not how it is marketed.
I did not get the vapors seeing Emily on the cover of her album.
I am greatly concerned that she might have been wearing a short real leather dress that was a bit short.
For shame…
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Yep, it's totally fine in the abstract. The difference is that if you go back through the same time period in this thread, you won't find a single album cover gazing at a male artist in the same way. Conscious or not, we just don't have the same level of expectation about being able to see male artists' bodies, much less that those bodies' worth is measured by whether they're f*ck*ble.
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Kevin Morby has entered the chat
 
Middle Earth said:
As to women in music/cover art, if they are exploited then that is most unfortunate and is wrong.
If they choose to be risqué then so be it.
I am not in charge of how they want to be depicted.
A modicum of decency and style would be my preference but I am interested in how the music sounds not how it is marketed.
I did not get the vapors seeing Emily on the cover of her album.
I am greatly concerned that she might have been wearing a short real leather dress that was a bit short.
For shame…
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How music is marketed is integral to who gets to make it, who gets to make a living off of it, and who you will get to hear. That’s not a radical observation to make. The industry is exploitive in general; that isn’t to suggest that each and every artist is being abused or made to do things they don’t want to do, it just contributes to a culture in which women’s bodies are expected to be available for our inspection and reinforces barriers of entry for women in music. Absolutely myopic to conflate that with morality policing about “decency and style.”
 
I am glad that we have taken the high road to derail this pre-order thread with virtue signaling.
I weep, wring my hands, rent my garments as vinyl is made from petroleum and I just found out that Iron Maiden flew around in private 757s and decided that 757s were not big enough and then….flew around in a …. I am choked up…a private 747 ….. give me a minute to compose myself…don’t you morons know the earth is burning up…and now women are being exploited in Big Music …
I read that one of John Cougar’s wives forbade him from having groupies around … but he nailed as many young girls as possible … tell me it ain’t so…
“The "Small Town" singer later described his infidelity as something of an inevitability, telling Entertainment Weekly in 1994, "How many guys you know in rock bands that have been divorced? There’s a reason for that. I don’t care who you are or who you think you are, you’re gonna fall into the pitfalls of that sooner or later. It’s rock & roll. I mean, what other reason would a guy ever pick up a guitar as a teenager?"
We should never pre-order albums ever again
Is there not a place to discuss this crap aside from a thread about pre-ordering music ?
I am here for the music not to whine about whining
WTF
 
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Middle Earth said:
I am glad that we have taken the high road to derail this pre-order thread with virtue signaling.
I weep, wring my hands, rent my garments as vinyl is made from petroleum and I just found out that Iron Maiden flew around in private 757s and decided that 757s were not big enough and then….flew around in a …. I am choked up…a private 747 ….. give me a minute to compose myself…don’t you morons know the earth is burning up…and now women are being exploited in Big Music …
I read that one of John Cougar’s wives forbade him from having groupies around … but he nailed as many young girls as possible … tell me it ain’t so…
“The "Small Town" singer later described his infidelity as something of an inevitability, telling Entertainment Weekly in 1994, "How many guys you know in rock bands that have been divorced? There’s a reason for that. I don’t care who you are or who you think you are, you’re gonna fall into the pitfalls of that sooner or later. It’s rock & roll. I mean, what other reason would a guy ever pick up a guitar as a teenager?"
We should never pre-order albums ever again
Is there not a place to discuss this crap aside from a thread about pre-ordering music ?
I am here for the music not to whine about whining
WTF
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Appreciate your arrival and welcome to N&G forums. Please keep in mind that many of us have been friends in this community for a long time. Part of what makes this place special is we can talk about stuff, have debates, share musings on things and sometimes that will lead to the complete derailing the “Preorder” thread. The biggest thing is to be respectful of others. Accusing others of “Virtue Signaling” and the idea that posts should “stick to music” aren’t gonna go over well on here. Your opinions on Johnny Cougar Mellencamp (the patron saint of Indiana) not withstanding.

Again, I hope you don’t take this a personal attack so much as a FYI.

Cheers!
 
Middle Earth said:
I am glad that we have taken the high road to derail this pre-order thread with virtue signaling.
I weep, wring my hands, rent my garments as vinyl is made from petroleum and I just found out that Iron Maiden flew around in private 757s and decided that 757s were not big enough and then….flew around in a …. I am choked up…a private 747 ….. give me a minute to compose myself…don’t you morons know the earth is burning up…and now women are being exploited in Big Music …
I read that one of John Cougar’s wives forbade him from having groupies around … but he nailed as many young girls as possible … tell me it ain’t so…
“The "Small Town" singer later described his infidelity as something of an inevitability, telling Entertainment Weekly in 1994, "How many guys you know in rock bands that have been divorced? There’s a reason for that. I don’t care who you are or who you think you are, you’re gonna fall into the pitfalls of that sooner or later. It’s rock & roll. I mean, what other reason would a guy ever pick up a guitar as a teenager?"
We should never pre-order albums ever again
Is there not a place to discuss this crap aside from a thread about pre-ordering music ?
I am here for the music not to whine about whining
WTF
Click to expand...
A cogent rebuttal. I am turned to ash.
 
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