Sutherland 20/20 Load and Gain Settings

forkandspoon

forkandspoon

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I'm looking for recommendations for the load and gain settings on my Sutherland 20/20.

Setup:
* MoFi UltraDeck
* Master Tracker
* BlueJeans Cables
* Sutherland 20/20
* NAD Integrated Amp, C 326BEE
* Vandersteen 2Ce Speakers

Any load setting below 47K sounds like it's in a tunnel (could need to warm up?); yet, when I set it at 47k, even though the sounds opens up, the Vandersteens are shaking. And at 47k, when I increase the volume, the turntable seems to be picking up some vibration (it's very isolated).

Any help would be appreciated :)
 
SnowmaNick said:
That’s a mm cart. Load should be 47k ohms. Gain around 40 db.
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You could even push gain up a little to 46 dB as the Sutherland may have cleaner gain than the NAD.

Almost all MM carts function best at 47k ohms; they are designed for that impedance. Lower impedances are for MC cartridges.

The only reason I can think of for the Vandersteens to shake would be infrasonic sounds passing through the Sutherland. It does not have a rumble filter. Try using the phono in the NAD to see if it makes a difference on this issue.

If you are experiencing excessive rumble, try lubricating the turntable bearing. Even though Sutherlands do not have rumble filters, it’s rare in my experience to hear people complaining about woofer pumping when using them.
 
Angsty said:
Try using the phono in the NAD to see if it makes a difference on this issue.
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My mistake; the C326BEE does not have phono inputs. I had consulted the wrong spec sheet.

If you dare, you can order an ART DJPRE II Phono Preamplifier from Amazon for $65 as a diagnostic unit. It has a switchable rumble filter in it.

Try a lube of the bearing before considering the ART. I believe the Ultra has a sapphire thrust-pad in the platter that must remain lubed for proper operation.

Yes, it may seem odd to get a $65 phono to troubleshoot an issue with $2200 phono, but it’s specifically to diagnose an issue with infrasonics. It’s most likely that the Sutherland is not the culprit; the real issue is likely elsewhere. You can return the ART if you find it does not meet your long-term needs.
 
Angsty said:
You could even push gain up a little to 46 dB as the Sutherland may have cleaner gain than the NAD.

Almost all MM carts function best at 47k ohms; they are designed for that impedance. Lower impedances are for MC cartridges.

The only reason I can think of for the Vandersteens to shake would be infrasonic sounds passing through the Sutherland. It does not have a rumble filter. Try using the phono in the NAD to see if it makes a difference on this issue.

If you are experiencing excessive rumble, try lubricating the turntable bearing. Even though Sutherlands do not have rumble filters, it’s rare in my experience to hear people complaining about woofer pumping when using them.
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I appreciate this information. The NAD does not have a phono input. Do I need a new Amp?
 
forkandspoon said:
I appreciate this information. The NAD does not have a phono input. Do I need a new Amp?
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No, the NAD is a great amp. Just need to figure out where’s the source of input that’s causing the issue.

Again, start with lubing the bearing as this is the most probable cause of what could be infrasonic noise. Plus, it’s cheap to do and recommended periodically anyway.
 
Angsty said:
No, the NAD is a great amp. Just need to figure out where’s the source of input that’s causing the issue.

Again, start with lubing the bearing as this is the most probable cause of what could be infrasonic noise. Plus, it’s cheap to do and recommended periodically anyway.
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What good news! As soon as I get home, I'll lube it up and see if that's resolves it.
 
forkandspoon said:
What good news! As soon as I get home, I'll lube it up and see if that's resolves it.
Click to expand...
On another MoFi thread, I recommended a grease for the bearing if you don’t already have one.

MoFi UltraDeck / StudioDeck Owners and those interested

So if the cartridge calls for the VTA to be 20 degrees what do I align the 20 line with? Top? Middle? The MoFi TT manual isn't much help. It just says to make the arm parallel to the record. I would suggest that you ask Mr Google how to set the VTA. A number of sites and videos will come up to...
www.needlesandgrooves.com www.needlesandgrooves.com
 
Angsty said:
On another MoFi thread, I recommended a grease for the bearing if you don’t already have one.

MoFi UltraDeck / StudioDeck Owners and those interested

So if the cartridge calls for the VTA to be 20 degrees what do I align the 20 line with? Top? Middle? The MoFi TT manual isn't much help. It just says to make the arm parallel to the record. I would suggest that you ask Mr Google how to set the VTA. A number of sites and videos will come up to...
www.needlesandgrooves.com www.needlesandgrooves.com
Click to expand...
I may have seen that post back when I first bought the mofi. I had a noise issue back then and got the lube. I'll have to see if I can find it.
 
Got it. What phono preamp were you using before the Sutherland?

Make sure to check your bearing spindle for scoring or damage when lubing this time.
 
I am suspicious of your having to relube within a couple of years due to noise issues. It’s possible that your spindle and/or sapphire thrust plate have been damaged.

Look inside of the platter bearing hole to see if you can spot the thrust plate. It should be a clear glass-like disc at the end of the brass bearing collar. It should be whole, intact without visible scratches. If you see anything other than that, this could be the source of the infrasonic noise.

I’m thinking extra lube could “cover up” a problem with the thrust plate, but a switch to a preamp without a rumble filter could re-expose the issue.

This is all conjecture thus far, but I thought to share it now because my availability will be limited this evening.
 
Angsty said:
I am suspicious of your having to relube within a couple of years due to noise issues. It’s possible that your spindle and/or sapphire thrust plate have been damaged.

Look inside of the platter bearing hole to see if you can spot the thrust plate. It should be a clear glass-like disc at the end of the brass bearing collar. It should be whole, intact without visible scratches. If you see anything other than that, this could be the source of the infrasonic noise.

I’m thinking extra lube could “cover up” a problem with the thrust plate, but a switch to a preamp without a rumble filter could re-expose the issue.

This is all conjecture thus far, but I thought to share it now because my availability will be limited this evening.
Click to expand...
I don't see any issues inside the platter bearing hole. It does look dry, though. Would this lube work?
 

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Angsty said:
That lube should be fine. Make sure to remove the old lube with a cotton swab before adding new lube.
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I went to the website to find out more about the lubricant and there were few details.

I don't think it will harm anything and in the short term it will be fine. I’d recommend the super lube for your next annual application because they are more transparent about their specs and specific bearing applications.
 
I recall now that I used this the last time, so I sprayed a little in and q-tipped it after. The Vandersteens are still shaking, but the rumble sound is gone.

1681681894346.png
 
So you may still have some infrasonic noise going on. Try reinstalling the Phono Box to see if the shaking goes away. Toggle the subsonic filter on and off to see if that makes a difference.
 
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