Room Treatments and Speaker Placement

displayname

displayname

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This is hardware adjacent, but I'm thinking it might be a fun discussion to share learnings and resources people find.
I've now had a few systems in a few rooms over the years, and I've been lucky enough to hear the same model of speakers sound amazing and blah in different rooms.
For nearly a year I've been honing in my room, which is a relatively small bedroom. 13x15 with a 7.5 ft ceiling. It's presented a unique set of challenges that has allowed me to learn a lot about how to manage the room. I haven't gone into treatments yet, but I will be very soon.

I'll share some thoughts and photos of my placements later, but I'd love to hear from others on how they have maximized the biggest piece of any system: the room!
 
Andy said:
I found this vide really interesting, and highly amusing when the interviewer looks at the camera

Click to expand...

I'm so glad you pointed out the looking at the camera thing; OMG it's fantastic! He's a good interviewer and there's a lot of useful information here. The young guy reminds me of Ryan Seacrest.
 
Russ I said:
I'm so glad you pointed out the looking at the camera thing; OMG it's fantastic! He's a good interviewer and there's a lot of useful information here. The young guy reminds me of Ryan Seacrest.
Click to expand...

I don't know who Ryan Seacrest is, bit if he's half as funny as this guy I'm a fan
 
So some quick learnings from getting settled in my room over the past 10ish months.

My room has had two major challenges I've faced that I've slowly experimented with over the past several months. 1 being a center image drift. The second being a bass null around 50hz in the listening position. First off, sorry for the dim pictures. I probably should turn the light on a little more frequently.

Room arrangement and placement #1
20210103_144851.jpg

This is how the room started. Records on the left wall with speakers placed as of the records were a solid wall. This is where the center image drift was most notable. I also found significant bass build up in the corner behind the left speaker.

Placement #2
20210606_085351.jpg
After talking over a rearrange with my wife, she agreed to let me relocate the wall of records to the back wall behind me. This allowed for speakers to be more centered to the actual walls, and widened the soundstage a bit. Interestingly, the center image was still pulling to the left. This is likely caused by the closet which is visible on the right, or the general change of materials in the structure. Fixed the drift by moving the right speaker slightly forward. Speakers have very little toe in here. This configuration provides outstanding depth and very sharp center images. BUT the bass null is still very apparent, so with just moving into this configuration leads me to a compromise, favoring imaging over lower bass impact.

Placement #3
20210809_114709.jpg
This is very similar looking to #2, but the speakers have about an extra foot+ between them, they are probably 10" closer into the corners and front wall. Still with the right speaker slightly further forward. The speakers have significantly more toe in here. This seems to really even out the bass... but again it comes with a trade off. Center images are not nearly as sharp, and we have less depth in the soundstage. I've kept the speakers in this configuration for a few weeks now, and I'll leave them until my first attempt at mild treatments arrive.

I have 2 GIK Soffit bass traps on order. They'll likely take over a month to get here, but my hope is they will help manage the bass null, allowing me to bring back some of the soundstage depth and precision. Time will tell!
 
I think you bring up a great point about moving your speakers to an asymmetrical configuration to balance the sound.

Unless a person's room is exactly symmetrical, with the same materials on both sides, behind the speakers AND behind the listening position, insisting on keeping the speakers exactly symmetrical too will likely present an imbalanced image.

My room is not symmetrical, most notably with my right speaker next to the room opening into the kitchen. As a result, sound bleeds into the kitchen moreso from that right speaker. I've pulled that speaker a little closer to me to account for that loss, and my center image is dead center. Messing around with speaker placement is one of the best free upgrades you can try.

Good luck with the bass traps! I'd be super curious how they'd impact my set up, but they are such a hilariously never-in-a-million-years non-starter for my wife.
 
Splunders said:
I'd be super curious how they'd impact my set up, but they are such a hilariously never-in-a-million-years non-starter for my wife.
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Haha, if this setup was in the living room they would be a very very hard sell. Because they are going into unused corners in the music room, she was more accepting of it. But if you ever want to go for it, I did tell her we could place something decorative on top like a pedestal. Maybe a plant or something. That was very well received.
 
Two very useful resources if your in the states:

www.gikacoustics.com

Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Sound Diffusers - GIK Acoustics

Order Direct - GIK Acoustics designs made-to-order bass traps, acoustic panels and acoustic diffusion for home theaters, recording studios, restaurants, listening rooms, auditoriums, and any environment where listening is critical. 5-Star Rated from +500 reviews for our acoustic treatment panels...
www.gikacoustics.com www.gikacoustics.com

Acoustic Panels by ATS Acoustics

acoustic panels
www.atsacoustics.com

both have free room consultation, useful info and FAQ's

For my room I have found some side wall panels and corner bass traps useful, and heavy theater curtains on windows.

DIY is another good option if your so inclined but im not sure with current lumber/rockwool prices if it in a good time ?
 
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displayname said:
Haha, if this setup was in the living room they would be a very very hard sell. Because they are going into unused corners in the music room, she was more accepting of it. But if you ever want to go for it, I did tell her we could place something decorative on top like a pedestal. Maybe a plant or something. That was very well received.
Click to expand...
Hmmmmmmmmm - Can bass traps be on the shorter side, like 3ft tall?
 
I always imagined bass traps were big tubes. Looking at the GIK site, there are more, somewhat attractive options. I kinda like the art decor panels actually.

I don't have any obvious issues, as far as I can tell, so it would be nice to test drive this stuff somehow. My room has 9 ft ceilings and lots of cushy furniture, a rug and is 17 x 23 ft, running the long way, so I think I'm starting with a decent base, but what do I know...
 
Splunders said:
I always imagined bass traps were big tubes. Looking at the GIK site, there are more, somewhat attractive options. I kinda like the art decor panels actually.

I don't have any obvious issues, as far as I can tell, so it would be nice to test drive this stuff somehow. My room has 9 ft ceilings and lots of cushy furniture, a rug and is 17 x 23 ft, running the long way, so I think I'm starting with a decent base, but what do I know...
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Round ASC tube traps have been around and used in professional sound for a long time so that might be what your referring or referencing. They can easily get expensive.

Mine are DIY flat 2x4 based panels, 4' tall, 4" thick based on the ATS Bass traps. They work.

From my research is seems the triangle corner "sandwich" design using rockwool and a covering is most effective. You just keep stacking up triangles of cut rockwool. Some run this right up to the top of the ceiling. There are plans for these online and on youtube.
 
JohnnyCashFan said:
both have free room consultation
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I had a pretty good idea of what I needed for my primary issue with the bass null, but I sent in room specs, pictures and issues for the web consultation. They had the same conclusion I did, but also offered a "next step" if I wanted to take things further with minimal aesthetic impact.
I was pleased overall.

Splunders said:
Hmmmmmmmmm - Can bass traps be on the shorter side, like 3ft tall?
Click to expand...
They do custom sizes in the Soffit traps. I almost went slightly shorter to line up with the window sill, but I decided against it.

Splunders said:
I always imagined bass traps were big tubes. Looking at the GIK site, there are more, somewhat attractive options. I kinda like the art decor panels actually.

I don't have any obvious issues, as far as I can tell, so it would be nice to test drive this stuff somehow. My room has 9 ft ceilings and lots of cushy furniture, a rug and is 17 x 23 ft, running the long way, so I think I'm starting with a decent base, but what do I know...
Click to expand...
Panels are kind of hard to resell and you usually don't get much back. But on the upside minimal treatments either help or have no impact. It's totally possible to over do it though, so I say go but by bit rather than all in.
But above all, if you can't identify an area of need, I would enjoy the music. I noticed the bass null from normal listening. Then did test tone measurements with my phone. When I say null, the phone was showing at 20db drop in my chair at 50hz. That was a pretty obvious issue to start addressing.
 
I use a combination of a Schiit Loki and plain old balance controls on my amp switch to try and ameliorate all the weird dips and nulls and inadequacies of my space, as there’s really no other place for the system to go. It’s surprisingly decent overall, given how bad the room is.
 
kvetcha said:
Of course now I’ve gone down a rabbit hole trying to isolate possible causes for my 300hz null.
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sometimes a room just sucks, in the old days they would use a graphic eq sometimes.

I wonder what room correction software like Sonorworks would do in your case ? But talk about a rabbit hole :D

Welcome to Sonarworks

Sonarworks is an award-winning audio technology innovator delivering an individually perfected sound experience to every music creator and lover.
www.sonarworks.com www.sonarworks.com
 
JohnnyCashFan said:
sometimes a room just sucks, in the old days they would use a graphic eq sometimes.

I wonder what room correction software like Sonorworks would do in your case ? But talk about a rabbit hole :D

Welcome to Sonarworks

Sonarworks is an award-winning audio technology innovator delivering an individually perfected sound experience to every music creator and lover.
www.sonarworks.com www.sonarworks.com
Click to expand...
It's honestly not the worst. I've got the system sounding pretty good with the broad-band EQ from the Loki. It's more an intellectual frustration. :LOL:
 
JohnnyCashFan said:
DIY tube Traps

DIY Bass Traps


DIY Acoustic Wall Panels
Click to expand...

I looked at a lot of DIY in process of considering my options. So many people love doing these projects. I don't so much. I decided even if it's a few hundred dollars cheaper to make your own, my time (and frustration levels) are worth the cash for me in this case.

But if you have access to the tools and want to put in the time, DIY is the most economic and most customizable option by far.
 
displayname said:
I looked at a lot of DIY in process of considering my options. So many people love doing these projects. I don't so much. I decided even if it's a few hundred dollars cheaper to make your own, my time (and frustration levels) are worth the cash for me in this case.

But if you have access to the tools and want to put in the time, DIY is the most economic and most customizable option by far.
Click to expand...
I have a mix of both and also some 2" foam behind the TV and older corner tunes (out of biz) that help control upper corner wall/ceiling reflections.
 
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