Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

[displayname]

1. Is it even possible to have one set of headphones to use from a balanced output AND a 1/4" headphone output?

Yup, you just need a swapable cable, which most audiophile headphones have.

2. If so, would I need to change anything regarding my set up of the amp to use them without damaging either component? I've heard using balanced headphones via a standard output jack can damage the phones and the player.

So you’d just need to change out cables, and you should be good to go. However, the way the headphones are powered are very different from your DAP and your amp. You’ll need a headphone that isn’t very power hungry to get good sound out of both solutions. Your DAP doesn’t have a ton of power, and your amp likely isn’t putting out nearly as clean of power. I would try to stick with dynamic headphones vs planars in this case. You might also want to consider some nice IEMs.

3. Do you have any recommendations? Could be specific models or even just brands. I honestly don't even know the tiers of brands available.
4. Is there anywhere in the DC Metro, Northern VA, Annapolis, Baltimore, Fredericksburg, Richmond areas that I could go to test out some different headphone options?

Drop.com is an awesome resource for headphones. You’re just going to need to do some homework on power ratings and efficiency. I don’t believe your DAP will be able to sufficiently power a high ohm headphone, but maybe.
If I was going in blind with your needs, I’d be drawn to these: Drop: Passions lead here (formerly Massdrop)
They seem to check all the boxes, you’d just need to invest in a balanced cable, which should still be in budget.
AudioTechnica and Beyerdynamic come up in your price point with closed backs as other popular options.

Now if you wanted to try IEMs, I’d look for TIN and Campfire. Those names seem to come up the most often, but I haven’t taken the dive into IEMs personally.

 

[BattleFlag]

So my vintage Akai receiver randomly crapped out on me last week. Wah wahhhh.

I looked into my local options for diagnosing and fixing the issue, but they were looking to charge $75 just to diagnose and then $100/hour for the fix. Considering that I paid $80 for the receiver, I've concluded that I would rather put that money into diving into a new receiver!

I'm not looking to go too high end. I know that I want it to have a phono in, as I will be upgrading my turntable next and would like to space out the purchases of the new turntable and a separate phono pre-amp. So the phono in will give me a stop-gap in that time. I do also like the Bluetooth connectivity option, so that I can stream stuff from Spotify through my phone.

Budget-wise, I would like to keep it around or under $275 CDN (around $200 USD). After some research, I think my leading contender is the Onkyo TX-8220. The Yamaha R-S202 looks nice as well, but it does lack the phono in. The R-S300 does have the phono, but ups the budget to $350 CDN.

Any thoughts on the Onkyo vs. the Yamaha? If the Yamaha is clearly better, I could live without the phono in. Anything else I should be considering in this range?

(FYI, I'll be running my KEF Q100 bookshelf speakers out of it. Turntable is currently a low-end Numark with built-in preamp.)

 

[RowBearToe]

I think to answer your first question, I think it should be possible if you had a set of headphones that features a swappable cable. For example (just because this is what I'm most familiar with, sorry it's not closed back) my Sennheiser 6XX has the option to switch from the 1/4" mine came with to a balanced XLR cable (I just randomly googled and found this one Drop: Passions lead here (formerly Massdrop)). I've never swapped my cable before so I don't know the level of work that goes into it (appears to just be a quick swap but I can't be certain). I definitely DON'T know if there are changes you'd have to make regarding your second point above, so be sure to do your research before making it happen.

That was one of the big things I was struggling with. I thought I would be able to search balanced headphones on headphone manufacturer sites and it would be it's own section. When it wasn't I thought maybe they just didn't make any, but I think you're explanation explains that. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Yup, you just need a swapable cable, which most audiophile headphones have.


So you’d just need to change out cables, and you should be good to go. However, the way the headphones are powered are very different from your DAP and your amp. You’ll need a headphone that isn’t very power hungry to get good sound out of both solutions. Your DAP doesn’t have a ton of power, and your amp likely isn’t putting out nearly as clean of power. I would try to stick with dynamic headphones vs planars in this case. You might also want to consider some nice IEMs.


Drop.com is an awesome resource for headphones. You’re just going to need to do some homework on power ratings and efficiency. I don’t believe your DAP will be able to sufficiently power a high ohm headphone, but maybe.
If I was going in blind with your needs, I’d be drawn to these: Drop: Passions lead here (formerly Massdrop)
They seem to check all the boxes, you’d just need to invest in a balanced cable, which should still be in budget.
AudioTechnica and Beyerdynamic come up in your price point with closed backs as other popular options.

Now if you wanted to try IEMs, I’d look for TIN and Campfire. Those names seem to come up the most often, but I haven’t taken the dive into IEMs personally.

Thank you! I definitely have some research to do now haha You provided a bunch of important points that I need to pay attention to for sure. I'll figure out how much power the DAP can provide and definitely stick with dynamic, most likely low impedance, cans. I personally am not a big fan of IEMs either, but thanks for the recs. And I'll definitely check out those 99 Noir's!

 

[apholden]

It was mostly because I was scared I could only hear 12khz of sound,

So my vinyl and flac files would be useless since I can't hear high enough to care, I don't know if it's the laptop or headphones because when trying on my phone it was the same amount but I was using a chrome test so that could have been bad, but I only really hear a pop and then silence

I will admit 12kHz seems pretty low--normal hearing should go up to 22kHz or so depending on your age. That said, it's amazing what our senses will tolerate before deciding the quality is too low. Try not to consider it as a defect in your ears, but rather that they're making the best of the music they can hear.

 

[apholden]

I just reread my previous post and I thought I should clarify something. I'm not implying your hearing is limited to 12 kHz. I'm assuming you can hear the normal range just fine. What I'm saying is, if you hear a source that only goes up to 12 kHz, your auditory system will fill in the missing spectrum, tell your conscious mind there's no cause for alarm, and get on with its day.
You can either fret that you're missing some detail (you probably are), or you can relax and enjoy the combination of your system and your ability to ignore such imperfections.

 

[RowBearToe]

However, the way the headphones are powered are very different from your DAP and your amp. You’ll need a headphone that isn’t very power hungry to get good sound out of both solutions. Your DAP doesn’t have a ton of power, and your amp likely isn’t putting out nearly as clean of power. I would try to stick with dynamic headphones vs planars in this case. You might also want to consider some nice IEMs.

Drop.com is an awesome resource for headphones. You’re just going to need to do some homework on power ratings and efficiency. I don’t believe your DAP will be able to sufficiently power a high ohm headphone, but maybe.

I just looked up the specs on my DAP and the max output power is listed as: 75 mW + 75 mW (Unbalanced) and 150 mW + 150mW (Balanced). Two questions, 1. I'm assuming listing each wattage twice like that means 75mW per ear for unbalanced and 150 mW per ear for balanced, is that right? 2. How can I use that info to determine whether or not it would be able to drive a certain pair of cans? If we take the 99 Noir's you recommended for example, they list the following specs:
-Sensitivity: 103 dB at 1 kHz, 1 mW
-Impedance: 32 ohms
-Rated input power: 30 mW
-Maximum input power: 50 mW

It seems to me that since the max output power of the DAP exceeds the max input power of the headphones, I should be fine? Also, looking at the fact that 1 mW can drive them to 103db makes me think it should provide enough power (although I don't know how that spec being listed at 1 kHz changes for different frequencies). I guess my question is, is that the analysis I should be doing to ensure the DAP can drive the phones? Or am I looking at it wrong?haha

 

[displayname]

I just looked up the specs on my DAP and the max output power is listed as: 75 mW + 75 mW (Unbalanced) and 150 mW + 150mW (Balanced). Two questions, 1. I'm assuming listing each wattage twice like that means 75mW per ear for unbalanced and 150 mW per ear for balanced, is that right? 2. How can I use that info to determine whether or not it would be able to drive a certain pair of cans? If we take the 99 Noir's you recommended for example, they list the following specs:
-Sensitivity: 103 dB at 1 kHz, 1 mW
-Impedance: 32 ohms
-Rated input power: 30 mW
-Maximum input power: 50 mW

It seems to me that since the max output power of the DAP exceeds the max input power of the headphones, I should be fine? Also, looking at the fact that 1 mW can drive them to 103db makes me think it should provide enough power (although I don't know how that spec being listed at 1 kHz changes for different frequencies). I guess my question is, is that the analysis I should be doing to ensure the DAP can drive the phones? Or am I looking at it wrong?haha

I'm no expert on headphones, but I think the 99's would work with your DAP, especially balanced. They might not have all the bass slam those headphones can offer, but those specs on the 99s seem to be pretty "cellphone friendly."

The two key things with headphones are ohms and sensitivity. The lower the ohms, and higher the sensitivity, the easier they are to drive. But to add to the confusion, several headphones do not list both specs. Maximum power ratings usually don't mean much because if you're actually hitting the max power the headphone can handle, you are likely seriously damaging your hearing. It's more common to stress an amp that isn't powerful enough to drive the headphones.

So those 99s at 32ohms and 103db should be good.
My 4XX are only 35ohms, but don't think that makes them as easy to drive because they are 93db, so that takes significantly more power.
The 6XX might seem easier to drive because they are 103db, but again, don't be fooled because they are 300ohm, possibly slightly more power hungry than the 4XX.

I believe most IEMs are 16ohms, with 95-100db. But obviously extremes exist. Perfect match for a DAP.

On full size headphones, just watch for a few key specs. Sensitivity under 100db and/or ohms over 100ohm are going to get harder to drive without more power. 1W (1000mW) is generally a pretty powerful headphone amp for *most* common selections, but 3W+ seems pretty common.

Clear as mud right?

 

[RowBearToe]

I'm no expert on headphones, but I think the 99's would work with your DAP, especially balanced. They might not have all the bass slam those headphones can offer, but those specs on the 99s seem to be pretty "cellphone friendly."

The two key things with headphones are ohms and sensitivity. The lower the ohms, and higher the sensitivity, the easier they are to drive. But to add to the confusion, several headphones do not list both specs. Maximum power ratings usually don't mean much because if you're actually hitting the max power the headphone can handle, you are likely seriously damaging your hearing. It's more common to stress an amp that isn't powerful enough to drive the headphones.

So those 99s at 32ohms and 103db should be good.
My 4XX are only 35ohms, but don't think that makes them as easy to drive because they are 93db, so that takes significantly more power.
The 6XX might seem easier to drive because they are 103db, but again, don't be fooled because they are 300ohm, possibly slightly more power hungry than the 4XX.

I believe most IEMs are 16ohms, with 95-100db. But obviously extremes exist. Perfect match for a DAP.

On full size headphones, just watch for a few key specs. Sensitivity under 100db and/or ohms over 100ohm are going to get harder to drive without more power. 1W (1000mW) is generally a pretty powerful headphone amp for *most* common selections, but 3W+ seems pretty common.

Clear as mud right?

Exactly haha but it's all very helpful information. Thanks for the insight!

 

[apholden]

Here is a little something about headphones and volume: How Loud Is Too Loud: A Guide to Headphones | Hearing Aids | Listen Clear. As for balanced vs. unbalanced, I don't think the speakers really care. You can find adapters to connect balanced headphones to an unbalanced amp (basically a TRS male to XLR female) cord, with the negative wires joined together and connected to common and the two positives wired individually to the left and right channels. I know Grado at least has an option to add these to their reference headphones.

I think the main thing to look for is resistance that works for both of your amplifiers and sensitivity that lets both amplifiers drive them as loud as you want. Since you have one each of a balanced and unbalanced amp, either get headphones with interchangable cords or balanced headphones with a balanced-unbalanced dongle.

Edit: fixed the description of the dongle.

 

[apholden]

One warning: do not get unbalanced headphones with some sort of unbalanced-balanced dongle. If you think of how that would be wired up, you might realize you'll short out your balanced amplifier!

 

[displayname]

Exactly haha but it's all very helpful information. Thanks for the insight!

I don't know why I didn't google earlier. Here's some stuff...

Headphone/amp calculator: r/headphones ☊ - Power Calculator

 

[RowBearToe]

Here is a little something about headphones and volume: How Loud Is Too Loud: A Guide to Headphones | Hearing Aids | Listen Clear. As for balanced vs. unbalanced, I don't think the speakers really care. You can find adapters to convert unbalanced headphones to balanced (basically a TRS male to XLR female) cord, with the negative wires joined together and connected to common and the two positives wired individually to the left and right channels. I know Grado at least has an option to add these to their reference headphones.

I think the main thing to look for is resistance that works for both of your amplifiers and sensitivity that lets both amplifiers drive them as loud as you want. Since you have one each of a balanced and unbalanced amp, either get headphones with interchangable cords or balanced headphones with a balanced-unbalanced dongle.

One warning: do not get unbalanced headphones with some sort of unbalanced-balanced dongle. If you think of how that would be wired up, you might realize you'll short out your balanced amplifier!

I don't know why I didn't google earlier. Here's some stuff...

Headphone/amp calculator: r/headphones ☊ - Power Calculator

Thank you both for the info, I'm going to start looking into those links now!

 

[AnthonyI]

This should be fun and interesting in my current system

 

[Mather]

This should be fun and interesting in my current system
View attachment 15063

Wut that.

 

[apholden]

Wut that.

Isn't it obvious? It's… um… uh… What is that?

 

[AnthonyI]

Wut that.

LOL, I just picked up this StudioPhono for $175 for my "work in progress" second system, so I wanted to make sure it worked and had no issues, opinions to follow

 

[AnthonyI]

This should be fun and interesting in my current system
View attachment 15063

Well............

Wow! I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised with the StudioPhono. Being sandwiched between my MoFi Ultadeck and Prima Luna DiaLogue Premium HP it found itself right at home. Very quiet, accurate and “musical”, although my Insight has nothing to worry about, it is $1100 more than the StudioPhono so it shouldn’t, but for $300 the StudioPhono just became my new “Budget” favorite. I’ve had the Pho8, and the iPhono2 and I would take this over both of those. Again, I think the thing that surprised me the most was how well it fit in with the higher end pieces, which I believe would bode well for those with more modest set ups.

I listened to St. Vincent ‎– MassEducation beginning to end with the StudioPhono then switched back to the Insight. The SP was great with the piano, bass, vocals and so on. I didn’t change the volume from one to the other and the SP was a little quieter than the Insight, I’ll have to check the DIP settings to make sure I have them in the optimal position, but still, played amazingly well.

A keeper for my second system and I would recommend the StudioPhono without hesitation for “Budget” and beyond. I’ve had the KC Vibe as well, and while this doesn’t quite get to that level, it has a solid home right below it, based on “Bang for you buck” I would say it’s the best I’ve heard in the under $500 offerings.

 

[trickyseven]

Well............

Wow! I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised with the StudioPhono. Being sandwiched between my MoFi Ultadeck and Prima Luna DiaLogue Premium HP it found itself right at home. Very quiet, accurate and “musical”, although my Insight has nothing to worry about, it is $1100 more than the StudioPhono so it shouldn’t, but for $300 the StudioPhono just became my new “Budget” favorite. I’ve had the Pho8, and the iPhono2 and I would take this over both of those. Again, I think the thing that surprised me the most was how well it fit in with the higher end pieces, which I believe would bode well for those with more modest set ups.

I listened to St. Vincent ‎– MassEducation beginning to end with the StudioPhono then switched back to the Insight. The SP was great with the piano, bass, vocals and so on. I didn’t change the volume from one to the other and the SP was a little quieter than the Insight, I’ll have to check the DIP settings to make sure I have them in the optimal position, but still, played amazingly well.

A keeper for my second system and I would recommend the StudioPhono without hesitation for “Budget” and beyond. I’ve had the KC Vibe as well, and while this doesn’t quite get to that level, it has a solid home right below it, based on “Bang for you buck” I would say it’s the best I’ve heard in the under $500 offerings.

Cool! Are you expecting a break in period with the SP?

 

[AnthonyI]

Cool! Are you expecting a break in period with the SP?

This was purchased used so I'm not sure how many hours are on it, but I enjoyed it from the get go. So if it gets better over time that's a plus. I"m starting to feel like everything needs a little time, some pieces are obvious like tubes.

Its going to be packed away for a while, so we'll continue the discussion once system 2 is up and running probably late this year or early 2010.

 

[Crabbers]

I’m a noob when it comes to electronics and ampage/watts....but would this be great did my onkyo, 2 turntables(at120/uturn), pho8, and martinlogan subwoofer?