Political Discussion

My state is too important in this to skip out on my right to vote. I say though, my polling place handled this VERY well. They ask you if feeling sick at the door, and spray hand sanitizer for everyone at the door. Inside, they had X's 6 fr apart to stand. Everyone gets their own pen to use and take home with you. Each voting booth is sanitized down between each voter. As fucked up the situation is, on glad I decided to go in.

Also, it really felt like a movie with so many people in masks hanging out in a giant gymnasiumMVIMG_20200407_124612.jpg
 
Phew, the party got dangerously close to nominating a good person with policies to make the country a better place for everyone. Narrowly avoided.
 
ayayrawn said:
Phew, the party got dangerously close to nominating a good person with policies to make the country a better place for everyone. Narrowly avoided.
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I'll vote for Biden of course, but the fact that the best the American democratic party can do in 2020 is a man with no enthusiastic base whatsoever, no meaningful policy, and decades of racist and sexist baggage is truly pathetic.
 
I've been thinking about the reasons for this eventuality for awhile. I don't have any real answers for myself and I don't agree with some of the thought in these opinion pieces, but one thing I keep coming back to, that is discussed in both, is the lack of traction Sanders gained in black communities, at least in the South and Midwest, and the fragile support from Midwestern Union Democrats , perhaps union workers elsewhere as well. I think "progressives" need to look at themselves in the mirror and understand how to be more inclusive in their mission and movement.

fivethirtyeight.com

Why Bernie Sanders Lost

There is a simple explanation for why Sen. Bernie Sanders, who officially suspended his presidential campaign on Wednesday, lost the Democratic nomination: Form…
fivethirtyeight.com fivethirtyeight.com

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | Bernie Sanders Only Had Eyes for One Wing of the Democratic Party (Published 2020)

But actually there are three, which helps explain why he had to drop out of the race on Wednesday.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Biden blows. I hope enough people will turn-out to get Trump out of office but I don't have much faith that people will do so. It's difficult to continue to be a part of a country and a system that is so fundamentally flawed and corrupt, even if it is better than some other places.

I hope more people that really care about human well-being run for office and the people that believe in well-being policies will continue to do their best to implement and demand change at the community level.
 
High Rant District said:
WHAT????? Biden cannot beat Trump! Sanders can.
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I used to think this, but Super Tuesday made me think differently. It proved that people want comfort.



ayayrawn said:
I'll vote for Biden of course, but the fact that the best the American democratic party can do in 2020 is a man with no enthusiastic base whatsoever, no meaningful policy, and decades of racist and sexist baggage is truly pathetic.
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What do you mean by enthusiastic base? Yea Bernie excited people and those people were all in, but he just didn’t get enough votes. Does that show that he didn’t inspire enough people? Possibly.

I don’t think he is done. He will continue to used his grassroots movement to inspire people and call out the problems in our system. Voting shouldn’t be the only political action we do if you want things to change.
 
Dtknuckles said:
What do you mean by enthusiastic base? Yea Bernie excited people and those people were all in, but he just didn’t get enough votes. Does that show that he didn’t inspire enough people? Possibly.

I don’t think he is done. He will continue to used his grassroots movement to inspire people and call out the problems in our system. Voting shouldn’t be the only political action we do if you want things to change.
Click to expand...
 
jaycee said:
I've been thinking about the reasons for this eventuality for awhile. I don't have any real answers for myself and I don't agree with some of the thought in these opinion pieces, but one thing I keep coming back to, that is discussed in both, is the lack of traction Sanders gained in black communities, at least in the South and Midwest, and the fragile support from Midwestern Union Democrats , perhaps union workers elsewhere as well. I think "progressives" need to look at themselves in the mirror and understand how to be more inclusive in their mission and movement.

fivethirtyeight.com

Why Bernie Sanders Lost

There is a simple explanation for why Sen. Bernie Sanders, who officially suspended his presidential campaign on Wednesday, lost the Democratic nomination: Form…
fivethirtyeight.com fivethirtyeight.com

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | Bernie Sanders Only Had Eyes for One Wing of the Democratic Party (Published 2020)

But actually there are three, which helps explain why he had to drop out of the race on Wednesday.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Biden blows. I hope enough people will turn-out to get Trump out of office but I don't have much faith that people will do so. It's difficult to continue to be a part of a country and a system that is so fundamentally flawed and corrupt, even if it is better than some other places.

I hope more people that really care about human well-being run for office and the people that believe in well-being policies will continue to do their best to implement and demand change at the community level.
Click to expand...

A lot of what I heard is people like what they know. What is real. They don't know how progressive changes to policies will affect them. To them its all wishes and not reality. They rather have what they know to be true and always there for them over the unknown.

Bernie had no support from unions. What Bernie was proposing for them was unknown hopes and dreams. Union workers didn't think for a second what Bernie was promising would actually pass. They feared a half way measure that reduced their benefits and cost them more. They want to keep their health insurance because they have the best health insurance there is to offer in this country. And many unions have talked the companies into paying for most of the premiums. Some even have their premiums paid for 100% by their company.

So if medicare for all came in, many who are in a union would be paying more. And by how much they don't know. And if they lose their health insurance there is no guarantee medicare for all would be what Bernie promises. And what does get passed will likely be stripped down the next time control of the government flips red.

As for the African American vote, it wasn't that they weren't supportive over Bernie's ideas. From what I have heard it's because Bidden was Obama's Vice President. They loved Obama. And that had more sway on their vote than any other factors.
 
ayayrawn said:
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I think that needs to be considered in context, namely that Trump was already the uncontested, presumptive nominee of his party while Democrats still had at least a nominal option in Sanders. I would expect that 24% number to rise somewhat in the next several weeks/months. And I'd also be curious how the results would look if the question for Democratic voters was about their enthusiasm not for their candidate, but for their opportunity to vote against Trump. I have a feeling that number would be a lot higher than 24% and would directly benefit the now-presumptive nominee Biden.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
As for the African American vote, it wasn't that they weren't supportive over Bernie's ideas. From what I have heard it's because Bidden was Obama's Vice President. They loved Obama. And that had more sway on their vote than any other factors.
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There may be some truth to this but identifying it as the sole or even the primary motivator seems too reductive to me. African American voters deserve more respect as the sophisticated and complex voting bloc that they are than they have been given by conventional wisdom.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
A lot of what I heard is people like what they know. What is real. They don't know how progressive changes to policies will affect them. To them its all wishes and not reality. They rather have what they know to be true and always there for them over the unknown.

Bernie had no support from unions. What Bernie was proposing for them was unknown hopes and dreams. Union workers didn't think for a second what Bernie was promising would actually pass. They feared a half way measure that reduced their benefits and cost them more. They want to keep their health insurance because they have the best health insurance there is to offer in this country. And many unions have talked the companies into paying for most of the premiums. Some even have their premiums paid for 100% by their company.

So if medicare for all came in, many who are in a union would be paying more. And by how much they don't know. And if they lose their health insurance there is no guarantee medicare for all would be what Bernie promises. And what does get passed will likely be stripped down the next time control of the government flips red.

As for the African American vote, it wasn't that they weren't supportive over Bernie's ideas. From what I have heard it's because Bidden was Obama's Vice President. They loved Obama. And that had more sway on their vote than any other factors.
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There are a number of ideas I disagree with here, but it mainly boils down to an overarching theme to narratives like these that basically is saying that these groups don't fully understand the progressive policies, or the narrative of the Sanders campaign, or what is good for them and the country. That thinking stems from a kind-of educated elitism that has plagued social ideals / policies forever... it's plagued the democratic party as a whole too.

It also ignores that progressive campaigns have failed to engage some groups who their policies are supposed to benefit. To me if your message isn't clear to the people your message is about then there is a problem with how you're delivering your message or the message itself.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
There may be some truth to this but identifying it as the sole or even the primary motivator seems too reductive to me. African American voters deserve more respect as the sophisticated and complex voting bloc that they are than they have been given by conventional wisdom.
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I agree with you, but I have heard it from a lot of people, and not just African Americans, so I don't think it should be dismissed purely as a disrespectful attack. African Americans shouldn't be singled out though.

I think what we sometimes forget is that the majority of American voters, much less Americans in general, spend almost no time thinking about politics past wanting their party to win. It has long been established that simple name recognition has an undue impact on election results. Add to that name recognition an association with a president that was popular with Democrats and it is even more influential. I personally don't think it is disrespectful to state that some people don't think about it any harder than that. Sad state of affairs, sure, but I don't blame them when it is the state of our society.
 
dhodo said:
I agree with you, but I have heard it from a lot of people, and not just African Americans, so I don't think it should be dismissed purely as a disrespectful attack. African Americans shouldn't be singled out though.

I think what we sometimes forget is that the majority of American voters, much less Americans in general, spend almost no time thinking about politics past wanting their party to win. It has long been established that simple name recognition has an undue impact on election results. Add to that name recognition an association with a president that was popular with Democrats and it is even more influential. I personally don't think it is disrespectful to state that some people don't think about it any harder than that. Sad state of affairs, sure, but I don't blame them when it is the state of our society.
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That was essentially what I was referring too. And I have heard from many different sources and view points that this is the leading theory.

I guess I didn't get into enough and focused too much on unions.

It does make me wonder though why everywhere I have heard this is always using the African American vote as an example when referring to Joe Biden.
 
dhodo said:
I agree with you, but I have heard it from a lot of people, and not just African Americans, so I don't think it should be dismissed purely as a disrespectful attack. African Americans shouldn't be singled out though.

I think what we sometimes forget is that the majority of American voters, much less Americans in general, spend almost no time thinking about politics past wanting their party to win. It has long been established that simple name recognition has an undue impact on election results. Add to that name recognition an association with a president that was popular with Democrats and it is even more influential. I personally don't think it is disrespectful to state that some people don't think about it any harder than that. Sad state of affairs, sure, but I don't blame them when it is the state of our society.
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Yeah I hear you. I didn't mean to imply necessarily that it's disrespectful, and certainly not an attack, but that it carries with it a certain "this is the easiest way to explain black people" sense that doesn't afford the same space for policy/coalitions/diversity that we regularly interrogate for other voting groups. It's an easy narrative, but one whose superficiality we accept as "enough" because it aligns with what we've always been told about black voters. That's not to say that there aren't voters for whom Obama's VP is the only qualification needed, just that we do a disservice if we paint the whole community with that brush and don't acknowledge the more substantial reasons behind some of that support.
 
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