Political Discussion

ayayrawn said:
You say these things like I'm being spiteful and petty for not getting my candidate when that simply is not the case. Bloomberg vs Trump is not a lesser of two evils situation to me, it's evil vs. evil.

Bloomberg is ALSO, very nakedly, a white supremacist. He's on video saying black and Latino people aged 15-25 don't know how to behave. During his stop and frisk terror as NYC mayor, there were more police stops of black people than there were black people living in NYC. He justified it by saying that 95% of murders were committed by young black people. He's suggested adding fingerprint scanners to social security cards so undocumented immigrants can't get jobs. NYC had to pay millions in settlement fees for violating Muslims civil rights by surveilling mosques. What I'm getting at is, saying that I would be doing POC a disservice by NOT voting for Bloomberg feels insulting.

Apart from all that he's a gleeful authoritarian who locked up thousands of protestors during the 2004 RNC while he congratulated Bush on starting the war in Iraq. He has MORE rape and assault allegations against him than Trump does. He donated 12 million to Toomey's campaign in 2016, and is one of the main people responsible for Mitch McConnell's senate majority.

There is zero (0) evidence that would suggest to me that we would be better off with him. Bloomberg doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. His democratic turn is so full of shit that vast swaths of his platform are plagiarized. He wouldn't be able to make a dent against Trump anyway debate-wise because he too is a rich, racist, rapist sack of shit and he would lose handily.

Trading an authoritarian white supremacist for an authoritarian white supremacist is where i draw the line. This isn't an "easy" or "convenient" thought like you seem to think it is.

Thankfully there is still plenty of time to avoid this catastrophic situation in the first place.
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I am very aware of my privelege in society, and I'm very aware of the power of my vote, which is why I'm working with other activists in my state to ensure a decent undercard in this red hell of a state. AGAIN, Bloomberg is absolutely worst case scenario, and if we haul ass we can him far away from that November ballot in the first place.

And I'm dipping out before I need to once again take continued residence in the mental health thread.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Again, not here to defend Bloomberg in any way, but I do think it’s worth mentioning that as a Jewish man, his racism and whiteness are markedly different from Trump’s in a few significant ways. Not better, not worse, necessarily (that’s another conversation) but different in substance and in tone.

And increases the remaining risk in the public option pool, meaning that the collective costs go up, driving the whole debate about the individual mandate all over again.
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Also very true.
 
I hate that our country ended up in this situation, and I hate that it did most likely because of non-voters. That being said, it's bad enough Trump is in the White House, but it's even worse that the Dems are starting to really look like a bunch of buffoons on top of it. As much as my gut is really in the "Anyone but Trump" mode, I pray to God that Bloomy is not the other option when the time comes.

It's become "anyone but Trump" for the Oval Office and now we have an "Anyone but Bloomberg" under card. At this point, any real change is going to take time and a couple of new Presidents, I'm convinced of it, but I would like to start off on a semi sane foot with the next Commander and Chief.

Frustrating and aggravating times............
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Also, I recommend both of these listens for people on all sides of the political spectrum. Liz is my spirit animal, and one of the only people in the media who articulates my world view for the masses. Glad she got picked up by the NYT. What makes LRC great, though, is having Rich, Josh and her come from every angle with respectful rebuttals. Josh is often wrong specifically because his husband is a DNC fundraiser which places him in a bubble, but he usually admits it when that becomes clear (see his repeated narrative that the polls should be trusted in regard to Biden).
open.spotify.com

From impeachment acquittal to taking revenge - Left, Right & Center

President Trump is on a revenge tour, firing administration officials who cooperated with the impeachment probe, using Twitter to rail against the prosecutions of his allies, and demanding to know why the Justice Department doesn't prosecute more of his enemies. Attorney General William Barr...
open.spotify.com open.spotify.com
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I listened to the second one of these over the weekend. I wish they had spent more time on Ryan Grim’s tweet, both as a strategic device (the “why did he tweet this NOW?” question, which they discussed a little) and about how true it actually is. So much of the turmoil right now is about centrism vs. progressivism, and electability, and not about how a policy agenda will actually work. If Bernie has a plan for his agenda, great, we should be talking more about it; but if Grim is just saying the quiet parts out loud here, then what’s the point, y’know? I don’t say that as a knock against Bernie, but it’s a part of the conversation that I think we need to have. The election is the first step, not the finish line, and the primary makes us lose sight of that.
 
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ayayrawn said:
a white supremacist.
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You don't know what this means.

He donated 12 million to Toomey's campaign to buy Toomey's background check vote and without getting into the intricacies of whether or not background checks are actually beneficial to POC that $ wasn't about Toomey's or Bloomberg's racism.

You're right. He doesn't care about regular working people. You're absolutely wrong to equate Stop and Frisk (a racist policing tactic) to the white supremacy of the Central Park 5 or Charlottesville or the blatant installation of white supremacists as policy developers in the white house.

I'm not defending Bloomberg, which I hope is obvious, but voting for Trump (or not against him in this case) allows his policies to continue.
I don't disagree that it is one evil for another but I completely disagree that they are the same thing. It's a shit sandwich that you and everyone else with your privilege should eat so that some of us don't eat an even bigger shit sandwich.

Some of the people I've been speaking with are choosing to support Bloomberg because of fear. That fear comes from 2 places mainly. 1. That Bernie is too impractical for middle of the road white people to realistically support (I disagree with this) 2. That Bloomberg's money matters and that nothing is more important than removing Trump and cronies etc. etc. from office because POC are in danger (I agree with this).

We can get into the everyday danger that people, especially the most vulnerable people, are in because "markets" and "globalism" etc. etc. and that's all true but let's be honest, even with a Sanders or Warren presidency a power structure will remain for some time and that power structure will not go quietly into the night. The police are still going to be the police. Bloomberg certainly represents that establishment. Frankly so does Amy or Pete but none of those people openly support policies that restrict the human rights of people that are not straight white males.

People can of course do whatever they want with their vote but imo opting out isn't a choice that we have if we are really the allies we claim to be.

Edit:
It is easier for white males to chose not to vote than it is for the people most deeply impacted by the Trump administration.
It is convenient for the people with the privilege and access to say "I won't vote" because I don't want to make a choice.
 
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
A) I think you are oversimplifying. Most of my black friends are activists in their late 20's / early 30's. And they all have a deep dislike for Pete due to his relationship with his police department. They also have a deep skepticism of how gentrification was handled by Pete. That said, I think all of them would turn out to vote for him because Trump. That said, Latino and Blacks over the age of 45 tend to still be very homophobic. It took my best friend, who is a 32 year old Mexican, until he was 30 to come out of the closet even though his older sister has been an out-of-the-closet lesbian for 10 years. I worry deeply that some of those people would stay home.
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I feel similarly.
 
AnthonyI said:
I hate that our country ended up in this situation, and I hate that it did most likely because of non-voters. That being said, it's bad enough Trump is in the White House, but it's even worse that the Dems are starting to really look like a bunch of buffoons on top of it. As much as my gut is really in the "Anyone but Trump" mode, I pray to God that Bloomy is not the other option when the time comes.

It's become "anyone but Trump" for the Oval Office and now we have an "Anyone but Bloomberg" under card. At this point, any real change is going to take time and a couple of new Presidents, I'm convinced of it, but I would like to start off on a semi sane foot with the next Commander and Chief.

Frustrating and aggravating times............
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The combination of Trump + Bernie is exposing them as the buffoonish goons they've long been. By that I mean, Mike is shining a spotlight of hypocrisy on the fact that DNC outrage over Trump's racism and misogyny was entirety manufactured and by making it clear that their donor class prioritizes stopping Bernie over defeating Trump.

I think 2016 served as an epiphany for a lot of people my age. Bloomberg (thankfully) seems to be doing the same thing for my father (who luke-warmly supported Bernie in 2016 is also very much the NYT/WaPo's target audience). He is fucking livid over that rule change and horrified at how quickly the DNC is getting behind Mike.
 
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I did manage to get my father of all people to admit earlier today he'd rather have Sanders over Bloomberg. Admittedly he thinks Sanders is a USSR-ophile who could be easily blocked by Congress BUT even he thinks Bloomberg is scum trying to buy the election, and I think that's the angle Fox and Limbaugh are pushing. Really weird situation that Republican Talking Heads are pushing against the most Trump-esque """""Dem"""""" candidate.
 
jaycee said:
You don't know what this means.

It is easier for white males to chose not to vote than it is for the people most deeply impacted by the Trump administration.
It is convenient for the people with the privilege and access to say "I won't vote" because I don't want to make a choice.
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I agreed with everything you said up until this. I think this last bit is more complicated. For example, most of the never Bloomberg types I know (or at least the most vocal ones) are POC in their 30’s.

To them, Bloomberg is a point of no return into oligarchy where as Trump part 2 leaves open the possibility of a swing left. Basically shit is already deeply fucked for them and so maybe white people need to suffer more. Because until everyone gets is suffering will white people wake the hell up and abandon neoliberalism.

I see a lot of truth in this but two huge problems. 1) RGB 2) Trump’s rapidly evolving authoritarianism
 
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
I agreed with everything you said up until this. I think this last bit is more complicated. For example, most of the never Bloomberg types I know (or at least the most vocal ones) are POC in their 30’s.

To them, Bloomberg is a point of no return into oligarchy where as Trump part 2 leaves open the possibility of a swing left. Basically shit is already deeply fucked for them and so maybe white people need to suffer more. Because until everyone gets is suffering will white people wake the hell up and abandon neoliberalism.

I see a lot of truth in this but two huge problems. 1) RGB 2) Trump’s rapidly evolving authoritarianism
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Most of the pro Bloomberg types I know are POC older than 40.

White straight males are less impacted regardless of who is in office.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not the Sanders campaign specifically has taken on an attitude of young white males that have the privilege to say if we don't get our way we are bailing out of the political process. I'm not saying this is your personal attitude nor that of the candidate. There are many many many very liberal even progressive people that are taking the attitude that was expressed here yesterday that if we don't get our way then we are going to take our toys and go home. This attitude, regardless of the evils perpetuated by neoliberalism, is one of privilege. I hope that progressive people figure it out that throwing the baby out with the bath water is a pointless endeavor that does more harm than good.

Again, I voted for Bernie in my state's primary because the policies most closely align with what I feel is best for people as a whole, but the campaign has turned many people off here in MN and I assume in other parts of the Midwest. Maybe this doesn't matter if enough young folks turn-out and maybe if Bernie becomes the candidate some of the fears people have about him will fade.... BUT the primarily young white male progressive tears (aka threats of not voting) that are getting thrown around here and other places online are ignoring the privilege that comes with their tailwind. They will be OK, physically, whether or not Trump is in office. The same can not be said for other people.

No one should accept a Bloomberg candidacy as anything other than what it is. No one should stop being critical of the money in the left and all of the evil it perpetuates, but if you are a straight white male you have a moral obligation to be an ally, even if that means eating a turd sandwich before you take your toys home and go play by yourself.
 
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Early voting in my area starts next week.

I might look into it this year. I didn't do it in 2018 as it was really inconvenient. I would have had to take time off from work to visit city hall during their hours of operations verses hitting the polls early in the morning on my way into work
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Early voting in my area starts next week.

I might look into it this year. I didn't do it in 2018 as it was really inconvenient. I would have had to take time off from work to visit city hall during their hours of operations verses hitting the polls early in the morning on my way into work
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MA doesn't make it easy on you but it does look like there is a form you can mail in. There is also a number on the linked page above you can call to get more info.

Salem doesn't seem to have any info about early voting (just absentee) but you might want to call the city clerk too just to hear what they tell you.

User account | salemma

www.salem.com www.salem.com
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Early voting in my area starts next week.

I might look into it this year. I didn't do it in 2018 as it was really inconvenient. I would have had to take time off from work to visit city hall during their hours of operations verses hitting the polls early in the morning on my way into work
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Do you guys do early voting by mail? It really is the best, voting by mail.
 
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