Live updates: The Trump impeachment inquiry
The first testimony in the impeachment inquiry kicks off today. Meanwhile, President Trump is attending an event in Florida. Follow here for the latest.
Has this man learned anything?
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
- Start date
Has this man learned anything?
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Live updates: The Trump impeachment inquiry
The first testimony in the impeachment inquiry kicks off today. Meanwhile, President Trump is attending an event in Florida. Follow here for the latest.www.cnn.com
Has this man learned anything?
His whole life he has doubled down on fighting everything, never admits that he is wrong and he is always the best. Don't expect him to change. He will not leave quietly.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't disagree that it's likely to throw a bunch of fence sitters into Warren's camp. A lot of it depends on how he looks at the next debate. We disagree though about Biden. Bernie is still very sharp mentally where as Biden's brain is turning to slush on him. Mental competence is much higher on my priorities list. But I've also always viewed Bernie's VP as vital for long term progressive momentum and realize that he is likely a one term President. Thus, this not fazing me personally as much. I don't view Bernie as some savior, I view him as a movement builder and would see his election as one victory in a long war.
I was typing from my phone at the soccer practice of my god family's 2nd grader and questioned whether I should include the union part right before I hit "post reply". Before I elaborate further, I should clarify that I think Warren AND Bernie have clear paths to victory against Trump and it was in no way meant as a jab at Warren's electibility. It was meant as a jab at people who think Bernie isn't electable and a nod to the fact that I think their are substantial differences in policy and approach that make Bernie preferable as a conduit of systemic change (see the fact that Warren signed a pact to not support candidates or organizations who primary incumbent Democrats for example) .
Warren's path to victory = solid youth turnout, winning centrist, suburban households throughout the country + your typical DNC voter
Bernie's path to victory = flipping the working class white vote that went from Obama to Trump, high youth turnout, solid minority turnout + the disinfranchised that might not vote if he isn't the nominee.
Since I think the typical DNC die-hard is likely to swallow their bitterness and vote for Bernie should he be the nominee, I think his path to victory is easier. But also I think Trump is basically toast at this point either way-- unless Biden is the nominee which risks deeply suppressing turnout among people under 40, progressives and the already disinfranchised. Yes, suburban whites matter, but they are only one portion of the populace-- and their status-quo-as-usual flavor candidate (Hillary, Kerry, Gore) keeps losing elections because they are completely out of touch with the plight facing younger generations and rural communities.
As to the union thing- I should have been more careful with my words. Teachers & Nurses (both of which are awesome unions) are two of his top 5 donors. The others, I believe, are Amazon workers, fast food workers and Wallmart employees because OF his support in attempts to unionize and raise wages. UE (United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America) has endorsed him for the same reason- Bernie was at their picket lines and an advocate of their cause.
A Major Labor Union Just Endorsed Bernie Sanders
United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America (UE) credits Sanders for joining their picket line earlier this year when it led the first major manufacturing strike of the Trump presidency.
www.vice.com
There was also an article from the LA Times a while back from a reporter on the ground at the GM strike and it indicated that most of those people were Sanders supporters in 2016 who went with Trump over Clinton because they were desperate for change. Sounds like most of them are behind Sanders / Warren this go round.
Column: Think Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren aren't electable? Talk to striking GM autoworkers
Many striking GM workers voted for Trump over Clinton. Remember that when you hear pundits say Sanders and Warren aren't electable.
www.latimes.com
Personally, I have only had good experiences with unions. When the unions were strong at Safeway during my teenage years, the contracts were great. Then they cracked down during a strike during my college years and the contracts you get in 2019 are lower paying with less benefits than people received back in 04' (source I still have friends there). Meanwhile, the unions are the only reason the film industry isn't more exploitative than it already is. Great health insurance, workers rights and very solid pay help make up for the long hours. Meanwhile, the video game industry is a complete shit show of worker exploration- and surprise, isn't unionized. And as I mentioned earlier, my friends who are teachers and nurses have good things to say about their unions. That is not to say that unions don't have their downsides or potential for corruption. The police union is the perfect example of that.
And for some reason I'm having trouble finding that exact data I quoted. Google doesn't work is well as it used to. Or maybe I don't Google as well as I used to. But there have been several write-ups (back in August?) on the fact that Warren's base is extremely educated, white and wealthy versus Sanders being more working class and diverse. Think the #'s come from a combination of polling and donor data. You see it linked fairly regularly on r/politics.
Some random links:
New Univision Pre-Debate Poll Says Sanders Has Highest Favorability Rating With US Latino Voters - Latino Rebels
Joe Biden is second.
www.latinorebels.com
Poll: Biden, Sanders top Dem field among Latinos
A large majority of Latinos say they plan to vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election next year,
www.politico.com
Young Women Under 45 Actually Make Up More of Bernie's Base Than Men Do
Polling shows the 2020 candidate’s supporters aren’t just “Bernie Bros.”
www.vice.com
The myth of the Bernie Bro: Bernie Sanders' supporters are more diverse than the prevailing narrative suggests
Voters of color are more likely to vote for Sanders and in some cases more enthused about him running than whites, according to recent polling.
www.businessinsider.com
Teachers and Walmart Workers Top List as Sanders Campaign Hits 1 Million Individual Donors
With 99.95 percent of those who gave still able to do so again, 2020 candidate says record milestone—reached faster than any other campaign in history—"is astonishing."
www.commondreams.org
Last edited:
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
Oh, and Warren deserves some props for her policy proposal today:
www.commondreams.org
Also, @jaycee @Indymisanthrope, I appreciate the convo as always.
To 'Shift Power Back Towards Working People,' Warren Plan Aims to End Decades-Long Attack on Organized Labor
"We cannot have a truly democratic society with so little power in the hands of working people."
www.commondreams.org
Also, @jaycee @Indymisanthrope, I appreciate the convo as always.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
Oh, and Warren deserves some props for her policy proposal today:
To 'Shift Power Back Towards Working People,' Warren Plan Aims to End Decades-Long Attack on Organized Labor
"We cannot have a truly democratic society with so little power in the hands of working people."
Also, @jaycee @Indymisanthrope, I appreciate the convo as always.
Likewise. I don’t see things the way you do but I appreciate the convo and thoughtfulness.
Also didn’t mean to imply an attack on unionization in my earlier post. The ability to organize is a critical part of having a functional democracy. My comments were more about the idea that union is good or bad and that IMO there’s a lot of grey there. I think it would be helpful if unions took NBC a look at themselves in a more critical light if they really intend to fulfill a mission of improving the lives of their members.
Maybe I’m just telling myself this and not seeing the reality of the world but I’m not getting my hopes up about the chances of whomever is not Trump. Logic has very little to do with any of this in my mind.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't disagree that it's likely to throw a bunch of fence sitters into Warren's camp. A lot of it depends on how he looks at the next debate. We disagree though about Biden. Bernie is still very sharp mentally where as Biden's brain is turning to slush on him. Mental competence is much higher on my priorities list. But I've also always viewed Bernie's VP as vital for long term progressive momentum and realize that he is likely a one term President. Thus, this not fazing me personally as much. I don't view Bernie as some savior, I view him as a movement builder and would see his election as one victory in a long war.
I was typing from my phone at the soccer practice of my god family's 2nd grader and questioned whether I should include the union part right before I hit "post reply". Before I elaborate further, I should clarify that I think Warren AND Bernie have clear paths to victory against Trump and it was in no way meant as a jab at Warren's electibility. It was meant as a jab at people who think Bernie isn't electable and a nod to the fact that I think their are substantial differences in policy and approach that make Bernie preferable as a conduit of systemic change (see the fact that Warren signed a pact to not support candidates or organizations who primary incumbent Democrats for example) .
Warren's path to victory = solid youth turnout, winning centrist, suburban households throughout the country + your typical DNC voter
Bernie's path to victory = flipping the working class white vote that went from Obama to Trump, high youth turnout, solid minority turnout + the disinfranchised that might not vote if he isn't the nominee.
Since I think the typical DNC die-hard is likely to swallow their bitterness and vote for Bernie should he be the nominee, I think his path to victory is easier. But also I think Trump is basically toast at this point either way-- unless Biden is the nominee which risks deeply suppressing turnout among people under 40, progressives and the already disinfranchised. Yes, suburban whites matter, but they are only one portion of the populace-- and their status-quo-as-usual flavor candidate (Hillary, Kerry, Gore) keeps losing elections because they are completely out of touch with the plight facing younger generations and rural communities.
As to the union thing- I should have been more careful with my words. Teachers & Nurses (both of which are awesome unions) are two of his top 5 donors. The others, I believe, are Amazon workers, fast food workers and Wallmart employees because OF his support in attempts to unionize and raise wages. UE (United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America) has endorsed him for the same reason- Bernie was at their picket lines and an advocate of their cause.
A Major Labor Union Just Endorsed Bernie Sanders
United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America (UE) credits Sanders for joining their picket line earlier this year when it led the first major manufacturing strike of the Trump presidency.
There was also an article from the LA Times a while back from a reporter on the ground at the GM strike and it indicated that most of those people were Sanders supporters in 2016 who went with Trump over Clinton because they were desperate for change. Sounds like most of them are behind Sanders / Warren this go round.
Column: Think Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren aren't electable? Talk to striking GM autoworkers
Many striking GM workers voted for Trump over Clinton. Remember that when you hear pundits say Sanders and Warren aren't electable.
Personally, I have only had good experiences with unions. When the unions were strong at Safeway during my teenage years, the contracts were great. Then they cracked down during a strike during my college years and the contracts you get in 2019 are lower paying with less benefits than people received back in 04' (source I still have friends there). Meanwhile, the unions are the only reason the film industry isn't more exploitative than it already is. Great health insurance, workers rights and very solid pay help make up for the long hours. Meanwhile, the video game industry is a complete shit show of worker exploration- and surprise, isn't unionized. And as I mentioned earlier, my friends who are teachers and nurses have good things to say about their unions. That is not to say that unions don't have their downsides or potential for corruption. The police union is the perfect example of that.
And for some reason I'm having trouble finding that exact data I quoted. Google doesn't work is well as it used to. Or maybe I don't Google as well as I used to. But there have been several write-ups (back in August?) on the fact that Warren's base is extremely educated, white and wealthy versus Sanders being more working class and diverse. Think the #'s come from a combination of polling and donor data. You see it linked fairly regularly on r/politics.
Some random links:
New Univision Pre-Debate Poll Says Sanders Has Highest Favorability Rating With US Latino Voters - Latino Rebels
Joe Biden is second.
Poll: Biden, Sanders top Dem field among Latinos
A large majority of Latinos say they plan to vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election next year,
Young Women Under 45 Actually Make Up More of Bernie's Base Than Men Do
Polling shows the 2020 candidate’s supporters aren’t just “Bernie Bros.”
The myth of the Bernie Bro: Bernie Sanders' supporters are more diverse than the prevailing narrative suggests
Voters of color are more likely to vote for Sanders and in some cases more enthused about him running than whites, according to recent polling.
Teachers and Walmart Workers Top List as Sanders Campaign Hits 1 Million Individual Donors
With 99.95 percent of those who gave still able to do so again, 2020 candidate says record milestone—reached faster than any other campaign in history—"is astonishing."
You planning on organizing on in LA for him this year? I've been thinking about putting in time for the local school board elections.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
I was working a city counsel race while waiting for the crowd to thin so that I could make a decision between Bernie and Warren... (because it's really tough to canvass for two people). Right as I got firmly behind Bernie again and was prepping to volunteer, this heart thing happened.
So I think I'm going to go set a table at Echo Park (a super busy park on the East Side) that says something along the lines of "talk Bernie to me" and push both Warren & Bernie the next couple of weekends and wait to see how the debates go before fully diving in.
The reality is that the early states are gonna swing momentum in one way or another. But California is voting on Super Tuesday this go-round so we are gonna matter a lot this time.
Edit: @jaycee Also, I agree about the logic vs. emotion thing. But that's part of why I think people underestimate Bernie. His supporters are willing to run through a wall for him and will put in the work. More importantly, I think its important that whoever faces Trump be willing to acknowledge that this country was on fire well before Trump (even if the guy is now pouring kerosene onto the blaze) because otherwise you are disregarding people's very deeply felt emotions of anger, fear and pain and breeding distrust.
Last edited:
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't think we do. I just think that the examples that the media seizes on to demonstrate his decline are perhaps not the best ways to illustrate those points. I wasn't trying to delineate differences between candidates as much as differences between what is truly a matter of optics versus a serious issue that needs to be addressed. Biden for sure has to face some scrutiny about his mental acuity.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
The school board elections really mean a lot this year. We are trying to get the pro charter people off the board, but they are backed by $$.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
I would potentially put in some time on that. No kids atm, but I understand fully what you guys are up against- being that I'm constantly on the opposite side of big energy and their money.
Mitch McConnell raises money vowing to stop impeachment
In a new campaign video on Facebook, Senate Majority Mitch McConnell pitches himself as the man who can end the House's impeachment inquiry, a sign of how the chief Republican in the chamber might handle an impeachment trial should the House pass articles charging President Donald Trump with crimes.
Is there any chance this could politically backfire for good ol Mitch and we can be rid of him next time he's up for re election?
Mitch McConnell raises money vowing to stop impeachment
In a new campaign video on Facebook, Senate Majority Mitch McConnell pitches himself as the man who can end the House's impeachment inquiry, a sign of how the chief Republican in the chamber might handle an impeachment trial should the House pass articles charging President Donald Trump with crimes.www.cnn.com
Is there any chance this could politically backfire for good ol Mitch and we can be rid of him next time he's up for re election?
No way he doesn't get re-elected. Get ready for another Strom Thurmond in regards to Mitch McConell. He is way worse than Trump in my opinion.
Breaking News.
The Supreme Court has agreed this morning to take up an abortion case this term. This will be the first time an abortion case has been argued since Justice Brett Kavanaugh joined the bench solidifying a conservative majority.
The news is still breaking and all the news alerts I have seen so far state that this storing is breaking and will be updated as more details come out.
The Supreme Court has agreed this morning to take up an abortion case this term. This will be the first time an abortion case has been argued since Justice Brett Kavanaugh joined the bench solidifying a conservative majority.
The news is still breaking and all the news alerts I have seen so far state that this storing is breaking and will be updated as more details come out.
Mitch McConnell raises money vowing to stop impeachment
In a new campaign video on Facebook, Senate Majority Mitch McConnell pitches himself as the man who can end the House's impeachment inquiry, a sign of how the chief Republican in the chamber might handle an impeachment trial should the House pass articles charging President Donald Trump with crimes.
Is there any chance this could politically backfire for good ol Mitch and we can be rid of him next time he's up for re election?
Both of these just made me sick to my stomach.
I can hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that the crypt keeper will be voted out. And that Roberts will vote with the more liberal justices.
But.
The last 3 years have taught me a lot about holding out hope.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
They are terrified of her:
www.businessinsider.com
A protester who called for Americans to 'eat the babies' to fight climate change at AOC's town hall was revealed as a member of a pro-Trump fringe group
A far-right fringe group called the LaRouche movement announced on Twitter that it was behind the protester at Ocasio-Cortez's event.
www.businessinsider.com
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
I’ve barely heard about these protests in Iraq.
This seems like a good thing right? In the sense that people are speaking out.
This seems like a good thing right? In the sense that people are speaking out.
DownIsTheNewUp
Well-Known Member
The second most upvoted article on r/politics today.
Nails what's going through my head. I have faith in the movement but don't see a clear successor to Bernie yet. I worry about his health but worry more about getting a cabinet of people into office who will fight for systemic change... because at that point, leaders capable of taking over should make themselves clear.
www.commondreams.org
Nails what's going through my head. I have faith in the movement but don't see a clear successor to Bernie yet. I worry about his health but worry more about getting a cabinet of people into office who will fight for systemic change... because at that point, leaders capable of taking over should make themselves clear.
The Movement Bernie Started Is Bigger Than Any One Person. Have Faith in That Movement, Not Just the Man
The reason people support Bernie Sanders is not because of the man; it is because of the ideals that he represents.
www.commondreams.org
Here is an interesting story.
The Houston Rockets General Manager expressed support for Hong King's pro-democracy protests on twitter.
Then several Chinese business with ties with the Houston Rockets cut their ties with the NBA team almost imediotly.
China's consulate general in Housed has also urged the team to "clarify and immediately correct the mistakes" in the tweet.
The origin tweet read "Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong." The tweet has since been deleted.
The tweet triggered backlash from the NBA which released the the following statement.
Since when is standing up for human rights offensive? For sure China is not amused, but should we bow to China?
www.cnn.com
The Houston Rockets General Manager expressed support for Hong King's pro-democracy protests on twitter.
Then several Chinese business with ties with the Houston Rockets cut their ties with the NBA team almost imediotly.
China's consulate general in Housed has also urged the team to "clarify and immediately correct the mistakes" in the tweet.
The origin tweet read "Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong." The tweet has since been deleted.
The tweet triggered backlash from the NBA which released the the following statement.
Since when is standing up for human rights offensive? For sure China is not amused, but should we bow to China?
China suspends business ties with NBA's Houston Rockets over Hong Kong tweet
Several Chinese businesses are suspending ties with the Houston Rockets after the American basketball team's general manager expressed support for Hong Kong's pro-democracy protests.
Trump is Obstructing the impeachment inquiry.
Today Trump ordered that Ambassador Gordon Sondland's can not give his testimony to the house impeachment committee on the grounds that the impeachment inquiry isn't legitimate.
Republicans are calling the Impeachment Inquiry "unfair and partisan".
Democrats say they will respond by subpoenaing Ambassador Gordon Sondland.
Today Trump ordered that Ambassador Gordon Sondland's can not give his testimony to the house impeachment committee on the grounds that the impeachment inquiry isn't legitimate.
Republicans are calling the Impeachment Inquiry "unfair and partisan".
Democrats say they will respond by subpoenaing Ambassador Gordon Sondland.
And how many millions of dollars did they spend investigating the Clintons? Bill Clinton's went from Whitewater to Paula Jones to Monica Lewinsky. At least Janet Reno wasn't carrying water for Bill Clinton like William Barr is for Trump.