Dispatches from Trump's America: Is It 2020 yet?

blissfullychaotic

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Wanna get high speed trains? no! Can we rebuild our roads? no! Can we get affordable heatlhcare? no! Can we get affordable public and higher education? no! Can we limit a woman's right and control their body by telling them what they need to do? Sure, we can do that!

It just blows my mind how for the past 25 years since I start caring about politics how frequently Abortion is talked about. I don't know what it's like in every country but the countries I lived in Abortion was something you decided on and was your business only, yet here we make it a national emergency.

I really have no faith in the S.C to keep Roe v Wade alive. Just sad, people who claim to be all about protecting your rights as a free person are the same people who allow the government to decide what someone can and can't do to their body.
 

Indymisanthrope

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Wanna get high speed trains? no! Can we rebuild our roads? no! Can we get affordable heatlhcare? no! Can we get affordable public and higher education? no! Can we limit a woman's right and control their body by telling them what they need to do? Sure, we can do that!
This isn't the infrastructure week we wanted.
 

Space Wanderer

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Honestly one positive side effect of the VMP drama was that I spent more time over the last couple of days giving the forum a viking funeral and less time reading about current events. Not to suggest that I or anyone else should be less engaged overall, but whenever I have a day or two where, for whatever reason, I don't do a lot of political internet reading, it's like a breath of fresh air.
 

Indymisanthrope

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Honestly one positive side effect of the VMP drama was that I spent more time over the last couple of days giving the forum a viking funeral and less time reading about current events. Not to suggest that I or anyone else should be less engaged overall, but whenever I have a day or two where, for whatever reason, I don't do a lot of political internet reading, it's like a breath of fresh air.
Exact same experience. It puts everything that's going on at a more surreal remove, which simultaneously feels like a nice change of pace and a dangerous loosening on my grasp of what's happening.

Luckily by next month the primary debate season will have started, and we can devote this space to tearing down each other's candidates instead of wasting energy on the real problem. With a couple dozen people running, that should divert our attention for a while at least.
 

David A.

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Would anybody be interested in a political thread that focused more on discussing philosophy/theory and less so on current events?
My BA was in International Relations/Poli. Sci, so you know my answer already.

The downside of working in sports is that political talk is typically limited to the nature of unions, player contracts. And make no mistake, sports is very political. But not theory based.
 

debianlinux

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I think there is an interesting intersection between the mindset that abortion is a right that shouldn't be up for debate and one where vaccinations ought to be made mandatory.
 

Dtknuckles

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I think there is an interesting intersection between the mindset that abortion is a right that shouldn't be up for debate and one where vaccinations ought to be made mandatory.
Is what you saying that the government should be involved in the decision in the vaccinations vs not in abortion?

Because I actually agree with that. The result of the decisions have very different consequences.
 

debianlinux

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Is what you saying that the government should be involved in the decision in the vaccinations vs not in abortion?

Because I actually agree with that. The result of the decisions have very different consequences.
I'm saying both arguments boil down to the fundamental question of whether or not people have rights over their own bodies and the vast majority of people I've come across say no out of one side of their mouth and yes out of the other.

Personally, I'm of the opinion you do have a right to your own body and while the personal/societal consequences may look different the role our government gets to have it in should remain unified on the issue or else the consequences are exactly the same in that regard. To wit, that we keep the vaccination issue open is exactly why the abortion issue remains open. Ultimately, to close the issue a congruous decision has to be made for both.

To be clear I am not anti-vax but I do believe people have the right to decide what does and does not go in their own bodies.
 

Dtknuckles

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I'm saying both arguments boil down to the fundamental question of whether or not people have rights over their own bodies and the vast majority of people I've come across say no out of one side of their mouth and yes out of the other.

Personally, I'm of the opinion you do have a right to your own body and while the personal/societal consequences may look different the role our government gets to have it in should remain unified on the issue or else the consequences are exactly the same in that regard. To wit, that we keep the vaccination issue open is exactly why the abortion issue remains open. Ultimately, to close the issue a congruous decision has to be made for both.

To be clear I am not anti-vax but I do believe people have the right to decide what does and does not go in their own bodies.

But the amount harm that can be done by not having some regulation regarding vaccination is much greater? I'm not saying that everyone should be forced to have vaccination, but if there is no medical reason then why should they put every one at risk?
 

blissfullychaotic

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I think there is an interesting intersection between the mindset that abortion is a right that shouldn't be up for debate and one where vaccinations ought to be made mandatory.
The difference is abortion affects only one person (you (singular)) where as vaccinations affect the majority (plural(the people around us)) if we can't distinguish actual harm for mankind and personal religious beliefs then we are having a whole new conversation.
 

debianlinux

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The difference is abortion affects only one person (you (singular)) where as vaccinations affect the majority (plural(the people around us)) if we can't distinguish actual harm for mankind and personal religious beliefs then we are having a whole new conversation.
I acknowledged there is a difference and I am not the one bringing religion into it. There is still a fundamental violation of rights to force vaccines into people. I might be willing to blur the line a little more if government and related pharmaceutical companies could actually be trusted to truly have people’s best interests in mind. At any rate, I see it as a huge slippery slope once we say people must be injected with whatever the government decrees.

Besides, my argument is that you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Quit muddying the waters with partisan politics and religion. Decide if people have a right to their own bodies or not. Once that is settled then abortion is a decided issue.
 

Dtknuckles

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I acknowledged there is a difference and I am not the one bringing religion into it. There is still a fundamental violation of rights to force vaccines into people. I might be willing to blur the line a little more if government and related pharmaceutical companies could actually be trusted to truly have people’s best interests in mind. At any rate, I see it as a huge slippery slope once we say people must be injected with whatever the government decrees.

Besides, my argument is that you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Quit muddying the waters with partisan politics and religion. Decide if people have a right to their own bodies or not. Once that is settled then abortion is a decided issue.

One there is a world of difference from vaccines and “what ever the government decrees” namely a lot of science.

Secondly the cake and eat it too saying doesn’t really apply because the two actions have completely different results. Morals and laws are more about the result not the action that produces them.
 

duke86fan

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I have the saddest hunch that 2020 is gonna be 2nd verse same as the 1st


I mean Bernie bros will be back in action and make the democratic election difficult, and sadly Warren isn't winning well in the polls, but the one person people are saying would win the primary is Biden, who is super safe and very much not gonna make much progress and just give us even more of "establishment choice" vibe just like they said with Hillary. So it feels like things aren't change and it's annoying
 
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