Cartridge too close to record.

gaporter

gaporter

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Kentucky, USA
As many of you know, I recently upgraded my cartridge because of an issue I thought the last one had. The problem, as simply as I can put it as someone largely unfamiliar with turntable vernacular, seems to be that the counterweight is not working as it should be. But even more than that, when I lower the stylus all the way to the record, it's coming down much lower than it should be, to the point where the cartridge is very nearly touching the record and the stylus looks as if it's going up into the cartridge. As you can imagine, this is not good, and as someone who knows the limits of their turntable expertise, I've been looking for the answers to this problem online and have come up empty handed. I don't know if I just don't know what to look for or what but I clearly misdiagnosed the problem as being with the cartridge because it is happening just the same with this brand new cartridge, resulting in distorted and skipping playback. When I came back to the turntable after a few weeks of not using it, I found that the arm would not stay down, almost as if it was loose. I tried to tighten it back myself (probably a mistake, I know) and when it no longer was staying up on it's own and swinging all over the place, I thought my problems with it were done and I was ready to spin again. But now I'm back to square one. I played an older record to test it out before putting a new one on and it seemed fine, but by the end of side 2 the same issues I was having before returned.

I honestly have no idea what is wrong and at this point I'm worried just replacing one piece of the turntable won't solve the problem. I feel like I should know far more about turntables than I do but I've never had issues like this and I don't know what I could have done to cause it. I don't want to panic but it is highly upsetting for me right now, especially since I'm not knowledgeable enough to even figure out what's happening on my own.

I hope I provided enough detail to where maybe someone can figure out what is wrong. As of right now, I'm stepping away from it again at least for a few hours because I've got a pit in my stomach and have just been left really sour by the whole experience. I'll try my best to provide feedback in response to any questions people may have but keep in mind there's probably a lot of obvious factors at play here that I'm oblivious too.
 
gaporter said:
As many of you know, I recently upgraded my cartridge because of an issue I thought the last one had. The problem, as simply as I can put it as someone largely unfamiliar with turntable vernacular, seems to be that the counterweight is not working as it should be. But even more than that, when I lower the stylus all the way to the record, it's coming down much lower than it should be, to the point where the cartridge is very nearly touching the record and the stylus looks as if it's going up into the cartridge. As you can imagine, this is not good, and as someone who knows the limits of their turntable expertise, I've been looking for the answers to this problem online and have come up empty handed. I don't know if I just don't know what to look for or what but I clearly misdiagnosed the problem as being with the cartridge because it is happening just the same with this brand new cartridge, resulting in distorted and skipping playback. When I came back to the turntable after a few weeks of not using it, I found that the arm would not stay down, almost as if it was loose. I tried to tighten it back myself (probably a mistake, I know) and when it no longer was staying up on it's own and swinging all over the place, I thought my problems with it were done and I was ready to spin again. But now I'm back to square one. I played an older record to test it out before putting a new one on and it seemed fine, but by the end of side 2 the same issues I was having before returned.

I honestly have no idea what is wrong and at this point I'm worried just replacing one piece of the turntable won't solve the problem. I feel like I should know far more about turntables than I do but I've never had issues like this and I don't know what I could have done to cause it. I don't want to panic but it is highly upsetting for me right now, especially since I'm not knowledgeable enough to even figure out what's happening on my own.

I hope I provided enough detail to where maybe someone can figure out what is wrong. As of right now, I'm stepping away from it again at least for a few hours because I've got a pit in my stomach and have just been left really sour by the whole experience. I'll try my best to provide feedback in response to any questions people may have but keep in mind there's probably a lot of obvious factors at play here that I'm oblivious too.
Click to expand...

it sounds to me like excessive tracking force. Do you have a stylus force gauge? You can get an inexpensive one from Amazon.

Amazon.com: Musou Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge 0.01g Blue LCD Backlight,Tracking Force Pressure Gauge/Scale for Tonearm Phono Cartridge: Musical Instruments

Buy Musou Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge 0.01g Blue LCD Backlight, Tracking Force Pressure Gauge/Scale for Tonearm Phono Cartridge: Turntable Cartridges - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
 
HiFi Guy said:
it sounds to me like excessive tracking force. Do you have a stylus force gauge? You can get an inexpensive one from Amazon.

Amazon.com: Musou Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge 0.01g Blue LCD Backlight,Tracking Force Pressure Gauge/Scale for Tonearm Phono Cartridge: Musical Instruments

Buy Musou Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge 0.01g Blue LCD Backlight, Tracking Force Pressure Gauge/Scale for Tonearm Phono Cartridge: Turntable Cartridges - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
I do not. I'll look into this. How could that have happened out of curiosity? I'm not sure why recently it has started to do this when it was previously fine.
 
HiFi Guy said:
it sounds to me like excessive tracking force. Do you have a stylus force gauge? You can get an inexpensive one from Amazon.

Amazon.com: Musou Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge 0.01g Blue LCD Backlight,Tracking Force Pressure Gauge/Scale for Tonearm Phono Cartridge: Musical Instruments

Buy Musou Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge 0.01g Blue LCD Backlight, Tracking Force Pressure Gauge/Scale for Tonearm Phono Cartridge: Turntable Cartridges - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
20200221_133705.jpg
It says this no matter what the counterweight is set to. And it measures the scale correctly so it's not just a faulty unit:
20200221_134409.jpg
 
spinning it should cause it to move slowly, but if it's that wildly out of spec you'll want to calibrate it first using the scale and then twist the counterweight to match the scale reading.

also, whew gracious that's a lot of VTF.
 
also if you want to know how much tracking force is on your records rn you can reset the gauge with the 5 gram weight on and you can now get up to 10g

but yeah.. this might be a situation where maybe the tonearm counterweight is having some issues, VTA stuff?
 
Somebody snuck and replaced your tonearm with a lead one.

Seriously, try setting the tonearm very slowly down on the gauge. You should see it measure and increase as you set more down. If it goes directly to full with the tonearm just hovering over the gauge then someone snuck and replaced your tonearm with a cesium one.

Seriously, you should begin by adjusting the weight until the tonearm is literally out so far that when you release it the weighted end goes down and the headshell goes up into the air. Working from there you would adjust until the tonearm suspends perfectly level without the headshell touching the record at all. From there you begin to make minute adjustments until the headshell comes down to contact the record and you weight the VTF and adjust UPWARDS until you have it.

It is entirely backwards and potentially destructive to the stylus to start with overweight at the headshell and try to back the weight off to the correct force.
 
debianlinux said:
Somebody snuck and replaced your tonearm with a lead one.

Seriously, try setting the tonearm very slowly down on the gauge. You should see it measure and increase as you set more down. If it goes directly to full with the tonearm just hovering over the gauge then someone snuck and replaced your tonearm with a cesium one.

Seriously, you should begin by adjusting the weight until the tonearm is literally out so far that when you release it the weighted end goes down and the headshell goes up into the air. Working from there you would adjust until the tonearm suspends perfectly level without the headshell touching the record at all. From there you begin to make minute adjustments until the headshell comes down to contact the record and you weight the VTF and adjust UPWARDS until you have it.

It is entirely backwards and potentially destructive to the stylus to start with overweight at the headshell and try to back the weight off to the correct force.
Click to expand...

Yeah @gaporter if you haven’t already sorted it @debianlinux is dead right, this is what you should do. This is what I meant last week when I was telling you take off the counterweight and start from scratch as if it was a brand new table.
 
I will try to see if I can make any progress with it over the weekend. At this point it seems to me the counterweight settings aren't making much of a difference as changing them made no impact on the tracking force.
debianlinux said:
Seriously, you should begin by adjusting the weight until the tonearm is literally out so far that when you release it the weighted end goes down and the headshell goes up into the air.
Click to expand...
This is what the tonearm was like when I first came back to it after a while (whenever I first started having issues).
gaporter said:
When I came back to the turntable after a few weeks of not using it, I found that the arm would not stay down, almost as if it was loose.
Click to expand...
The confusing part is that setting the counterweight does feel as though it is still affecting the weight but no matter what it seemed the tracking force was still ridiculously excessive. At this stage I'm worried it may be a lost cause but I'll try my best to improve the state of things. Thank you everyone for the advice; it is very appreciated 💙
 
debianlinux said:
Can you post a picture of the tonearm? Maybe a few like overall, at the pivot, and at the counterweight.
Click to expand...
Not atm but I can try to when I get home. Nothing looks or feels abnormal about it to me other than it dropping like a brick, so idk how much a picture will really convey the issue tbh
 
gaporter said:
Not atm but I can try to when I get home. Nothing looks or feels abnormal about it to me other than it dropping like a brick, so idk how much a picture will really convey the issue tbh
Click to expand...
Have you moved the entire doughnut shaped counterweight all the way to the back of the tonearm so that it's almost about to fall off the arm? If not, do that then check your weight.
 
If your new cart is significantly heavier than the old one you may need a heavier counterweight.
 
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