Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

Our county issued a new indoor mask mandate last week, effective this Wednesday, due to hospitals nearing capacity. Cue the chatter on Nextdoor mocking it… “If Covid is so bad, why wait until Wednesday?” “If masks are so effective, why wait until Wednesday?” 😒
 
The bus driver came to pick my kids up and she said that we were basically the only family that she picked up today. She said that people are protesting vaccine mandates and keeping their kids home from school. She told us that she hit 7 houses before us and none of them are sending their kids to school.

I had to look this up, because I had no idea--ah, what you miss when you don't engage in FB. And I found this article:

On Monday, Oct. 18, parents and teachers in California who oppose a vaccine mandate for students and teachers are planning a sit-out.

Throughout the week, posters have been circulating on social media notifying the public of the Statewide sit-out. Those who support the movement are asked not to call their child out as sick, but to state, they oppose the vaccine mandate.


So yeah, how's your Monday?

This seems to be the rallying cry for conservatives right now. I'm seeing a lot of political stuff along the lines of "Parents over School Boards" or something like that. Makes me nervous-- it's very compelling and emotional without any of that annoying nuance. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to buy into it.
 
I have had I think around 30 friends and coworkers that have had Covid. Thankfully only one has died, and three others were hospitalized for various amounts of time. One of them is a long hauler who got it in March of 2020 and fears she'll never be normal again. Another one got it twice and says his lungs hurt when breathing in cold air.

But many I know that have had it are my coworkers, and came back with the stance of "it's NO big deal. I really don't see what the hoopla is. Glorified cold. Flu with a fancy name."

It's very hard to argue with these folks, who by the way are anti-vax. "Just being tired for a few days" proves to them and lots of others who will listen that it truly is better to just 'get it and get it over-with.' So I don't argue anymore. I can't. And I think that's where we are in the bigger picture. This thing is going to run through all of us, the body count will get higher because sides are chosen.

Serious question though: Do we know if studies show the antibodies are better than the vaccine? Or that if we all get one or the other, this will go away?
 
Serious question though: Do we know if studies show the antibodies are better than the vaccine? Or that if we all get one or the other, this will go away?
So what I have read indicates that we don't really know.

For instance:
The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.


And:
In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.

I've come across several studies that have found conflicting information--which to me indicates that

Most virologists think that the way out of this is for Covid-19 to become endemic and more benign--basically, the virus has to become a lot less deadly for us. But because the only pandemics we have had in recent times have been flu pandemics, we aren't really sure what the timeline for a SARS virus to become endemic.

Experience from the last four pandemics — the ones mentioned above — would suggest that viruses morph from pandemic pathogens to endemic sources of disease within a year and a half or two of emerging. But all of those pandemics were influenza pandemics. A different pathogen could mean we’ll see a different pattern.
 
I have had I think around 30 friends and coworkers that have had Covid. Thankfully only one has died, and three others were hospitalized for various amounts of time. One of them is a long hauler who got it in March of 2020 and fears she'll never be normal again. Another one got it twice and says his lungs hurt when breathing in cold air.

But many I know that have had it are my coworkers, and came back with the stance of "it's NO big deal. I really don't see what the hoopla is. Glorified cold. Flu with a fancy name."

It's very hard to argue with these folks, who by the way are anti-vax. "Just being tired for a few days" proves to them and lots of others who will listen that it truly is better to just 'get it and get it over-with.' So I don't argue anymore. I can't. And I think that's where we are in the bigger picture. This thing is going to run through all of us, the body count will get higher because sides are chosen.

Serious question though: Do we know if studies show the antibodies are better than the vaccine? Or that if we all get one or the other, this will go away?

I think the problem with the whole "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" idea that your coworkers seem to be espousing is that a serious viral infection (or other serious illness or injury) isn't like going hard at the gym, it's like getting hit by a car. A lot of people end up with a weakened immune system for months to years following a major illness, leaving them more susceptible to death from flu or some other infection, or just more likely to get smaller sicknesses. That's why flu vaccines help prevent secondary pneumonia in people who would have been weakened by the flu, or how the measles vaccine helped prevent deaths in other illnesses in children, because it turns out that kids who get measles are more likely to get seriously ill from something else in the following year. (Article with some sources)

I say this as someone who got viral pericarditis 3 years ago, and the recovery process to semi-normal took months, and I'm still not fully where I was before I got sick. If I could have been vaccinated for that virus (it was probably Epstein-Barr, the one that causes mono), I would have gladly taken feeling bad for a day from the vaccination instead of what I got- a couple of multi-day hospital visits and months of being too weak to walk a mile. Recovery has been a looooooong road.
 
So the update is that all the teachers for my kids were there and most of the kids were too. I'm glad that the kids on the bus were not indicative of how many people showed up today. My daughter was somewhat affected because she had to go into another classroom in the morning while her teacher went to another classroom. But she was back for the afternoon.
 
I think the problem with the whole "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" idea that your coworkers seem to be espousing is that a serious viral infection (or other serious illness or injury) isn't like going hard at the gym, it's like getting hit by a car. A lot of people end up with a weakened immune system for months to years following a major illness, leaving them more susceptible to death from flu or some other infection, or just more likely to get smaller sicknesses. That's why flu vaccines help prevent secondary pneumonia in people who would have been weakened by the flu, or how the measles vaccine helped prevent deaths in other illnesses in children, because it turns out that kids who get measles are more likely to get seriously ill from something else in the following year. (Article with some sources)

I say this as someone who got viral pericarditis 3 years ago, and the recovery process to semi-normal took months, and I'm still not fully where I was before I got sick. If I could have been vaccinated for that virus (it was probably Epstein-Barr, the one that causes mono), I would have gladly taken feeling bad for a day from the vaccination instead of what I got- a couple of multi-day hospital visits and months of being too weak to walk a mile. Recovery has been a looooooong road.
“In my experience, that which does not kill you makes you WEAKER, (and will probably kill you the next time it shows up)” - Norm MacDonald
 
I think the problem with the whole "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" idea that your coworkers seem to be espousing is that a serious viral infection (or other serious illness or injury) isn't like going hard at the gym, it's like getting hit by a car. A lot of people end up with a weakened immune system for months to years following a major illness, leaving them more susceptible to death from flu or some other infection, or just more likely to get smaller sicknesses. That's why flu vaccines help prevent secondary pneumonia in people who would have been weakened by the flu, or how the measles vaccine helped prevent deaths in other illnesses in children, because it turns out that kids who get measles are more likely to get seriously ill from something else in the following year. (Article with some sources)

I say this as someone who got viral pericarditis 3 years ago, and the recovery process to semi-normal took months, and I'm still not fully where I was before I got sick. If I could have been vaccinated for that virus (it was probably Epstein-Barr, the one that causes mono), I would have gladly taken feeling bad for a day from the vaccination instead of what I got- a couple of multi-day hospital visits and months of being too weak to walk a mile. Recovery has been a looooooong road.
Wow, thanks for sharing your story. I hope you continue to recover...sorry it's been so rough.

I agree with what you're saying here too. My coworkers in their 30s who get it are so cavalier about it being nothing, but they don't actually know what the future holds for them. My long-hauler friend can attest to that. And there's such irony that they won't get the vaccine because they don't know the long term effects but are willing to get Covid instead.

@nolalady - thanks as always for providing some resources for me to read through.
 

 

This sounds like a fine institution of education.
 
This, though somewhat funny, may be hard to watch. I'm very disturbed by these people. I don't understand how they can see those around them and the things they're doing/saying and think "Oh yeah, we're the smart ones here, I'm definitely right about this."

 
This, though somewhat funny, may be hard to watch. I'm very disturbed by these people. I don't understand how they can see those around them and the things they're doing/saying and think "Oh yeah, we're the smart ones here, I'm definitely right about this."


This is what happens when people lose trust in their government because our politicians have been bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies (and a whole lot of other companies). If our government thought that vaccination was the MOST important thing, they would have voted in the WHO to open vaccine patents. If they wanted people to think that this is totally for public health, no one should be making money off of this. It's very easy for people to become very skeptical when there is a lot of money floating around. If we took away the staggering profits, there would be a lot less for people to question.
 
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And the article for that

 
So reinfections are not only a thing, but they are a relatively common thing.

As Covid-19 infections surge in England, people are increasingly reporting catching Sars-CoV-2 for a second or even third time.

New analysis has suggested that unvaccinated individuals should expect to be reinfected with Covid-19 every 16 months, on average.

With winter approaching, scientists are warning that such reinfections could add to the burden on the NHS, some calling for the vaccination programme to be extended to all schoolchildren, including two doses for teenagers.


 
So reinfections are not only a thing, but they are a relatively common thing.

As Covid-19 infections surge in England, people are increasingly reporting catching Sars-CoV-2 for a second or even third time.

New analysis has suggested that unvaccinated individuals should expect to be reinfected with Covid-19 every 16 months, on average.

With winter approaching, scientists are warning that such reinfections could add to the burden on the NHS, some calling for the vaccination programme to be extended to all schoolchildren, including two doses for teenagers.


My wife and I were just talking about this yesterday. I was saying that the non-vaxxed coworkers of mine who have had it might get it every year. In their heads, they think they now have natural immunity. The guy that had it twice already is not at all interested in the shot because he says 'he's definitely good now.' But it seems that's not based on anything except hope. And, I have to believe that getting this over and over can't be good for you. Not as bad as the three legged demons that enter your body via the shot though. /s

And right on cue - as I was typing this one of them just got in yet another heated argument here at work with one of the few pro-vax employees about how masks don't do anything and was YELLING "Show me the science!! There is NONE!" He's had it once already.
 
Grumble grumble grumble...
This variant could put a damper on holiday plans:

Vaccines protect against severe disease and death and are considered central to ending the pandemic. COVID-19 vaccines (and SARS-CoV-2 infection) elicit antibodies that are directed against the viral spike (S) protein and neutralize the virus. However, the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 variants with S protein mutations that confer resistance to neutralization might compromise vaccine efficacy [1]. Furthermore, emerging viral variants with enhanced transmissibility, likely due to altered virus-host cell interactions, might rapidly spread globally. Therefore, it is important to investigate whether emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants exhibit altered host cell interactions and resistance against antibody-mediated neutralization.
We investigated host cell entry and antibody-mediated neutralization of the variant A.30 (also termed A.VOI.V2), which was detected in several patients in Angola and Sweden in spring 2021 and likely originated in Tanzania [2].


 
The CEO of our hospital sent an email to all employees with the dates for mandating the vaccine to maintain employment. Dec 5th is the last date to get first dose, fully vaccinated by Jan 4th. As he put it, “if you choose not to get the vaccine, you are choosing not to be employed by (my employer)”. I am so happy this is finally happening, especially considering I live in Montana, the only state to mandate that employers cannot mandate vaccines. However, when a community hospital gets 60-70 of their money from Medicare/Medicaid, if we lose CMS money, we go bankrupt. My Q wingnut coworker plans to send an email to our governor, Greg “Body Slammin” Gianforte, who has exactly zero power over CMS funding.

It was a very good day today 😉
 


:cry:
 
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