Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus
- Thread starter RenegadeMonster
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Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
For my part, I think Drew Magary is onto something with respect to overcoming hesitancy, arguing a point that Dougherty dismisses:
Chucktshoes
Well-Known Member
Well, I won’t argue that it would be effective for some and would push them to getting vaccinated. The question is are there other ways to accomplish the same goal with those folks? I would refer you to the reasons why Dougherty sets that option aside. The risks for radicalization and violence are very, very real as has been shown in France. Now think about how much the general resistance and mistrust of the government is baked into the American DNA and ask how that would go.
The reality is that the insufferable twatwaffle (God, I wanted to track him down and punch him in the throat after three paragraphs) you linked to is exactly the kind of person this article was written for. He’s also exactly the kind of person that won’t listen because they are more interested in showing their smug superiority than actually doing anything of value.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
You know, his politics bleed into a LOT of his online writing, so I totally see how it'd be hard to get past if you have a different perspective, but I think he's really good (I tune out of the sports writing, but I assume he's good there too). His novel The Hike has a little following, for good reason. From my memory of it, at least, I think you might even like it. It has one of the best/most memorable endings I've read in a long while. It's weird, but short and rewarding IMO.
Anyway -- it seems like the central conflict is a differing view on who holds the responsibility here. Dougherty argues that pro-vax people are obligated to persuade the unvaccinated, whereas Magary argues that it's the unvaccinated population's responsibility to come to the table or accept the consequences. There is room for both, I think, to persuade the persuadable and to start to treat the rest as if they've spent their social capital on their freedom to remain unvaccinated.
Chucktshoes
Well-Known Member
It wasn’t his politics, but his delivery. I didn’t even get to reading the parts directly related to our discussion. From what I read I hope it’s a schtick because if he is 10% of the person he comes across as he deserves to be punched in the dick, repeatedly and with great force. Of course when I learned he came out of the Gawkersphere, it made all the sense in the world. I do appreciate you introducing me to a byline that I now know to avoid at all costs in the future. (Seriously, no sarcasm there.)
I would say Dougherty is less about who’s responsibility things are and blame laying than practical outcomes. What’s going to be most effective in the end?
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
I don't think any of his proposals are bad ones. It's his analysis of the thicket of rationales the unvaccinated put forth that rubs me the wrong way. But that's probably no surprise, and this is probably the wrong thread (and I'm on a break from the right one).
Thanks for posting this. I also noticed the author linked the following two articles, which have helped me feel a little bit better, since I'm a parent of two young kids 2 and 4 and am always a heart-hypocondriac (if that's a thing):
Setting the record straight: There is no 'Covid heart'
In a world where success is measured by clicks, the idea that even mild cases of Covid-19 could pose a new and unprecedented threat to the heart took off, even though it was largely unsubstantiated.
www.statnews.com
Chucktshoes
Well-Known Member
I think the best way to approach that subject is to depersonalize it. If a tree falls in the road blocking your path, getting mad at the tree doesn’t help anything. It’s simply and obstacle to get around and what’s the best way to do so? Sometimes there’s enough room to drive around it. Sometimes it takes more work to and maybe you have to pull it off the road. Regardless of the best method for that tree, it’s simply an obstacle to overcome, not a personal affront.
Where I think this viewpoint really helps is that working margins here makes a big difference. If you convince just 5% of the population of the US to get vaccinated, that’s 16.5 million people. That’s a lot of folks and goes a long way towards a better end result.
My oldest just turned 12 last Wednesday and we were talking to him about the vaccine. I was very concerned about the myocarditis that was popping up in young males after the vaccine, but I read more about it and realized that this was very rare and that after 3 months, there was no detectible damage or dysfunction. We are going this weekend to get his first shot.Thanks for posting this. I also noticed the author linked the following two articles, which have helped me feel a little bit better, since I'm a parent of two young kids 2 and 4 and am always a heart-hypocondriac (if that's a thing):
Setting the record straight: There is no 'Covid heart'
In a world where success is measured by clicks, the idea that even mild cases of Covid-19 could pose a new and unprecedented threat to the heart took off, even though it was largely unsubstantiated.
That’s great! I hope it goes well and he doesn’t have a bad post vaccine reaction. I’m honestly a bit hesitant to vaccinate my very young children (even though me and my wife are both vaccinated) but I think we’ll do it as well once the data comes in and it seems safe.
Turbo
Well-Known Member
My daughter had very little side-effects from the 1st shot. We went on the day of her 12th birthday. Sore arm, that's it. She's getting her 2nd in a week.
I'm just shaking my head at the stupidity of some people and the GOP.
In Missouri where there are ultra low rates of covid vaccinations, covid cases are surging. Hospitals are now at 100% capacity.
Meanwhile, in the same county, the county fair continues on at full swing. No mask mandates, almost no masks to be seen. People are behaving like times are back to normal and there is no pandemic.
In Missouri where there are ultra low rates of covid vaccinations, covid cases are surging. Hospitals are now at 100% capacity.
Meanwhile, in the same county, the county fair continues on at full swing. No mask mandates, almost no masks to be seen. People are behaving like times are back to normal and there is no pandemic.
4 states are no longer reporting covid data daily even though Delta is surging within those states. They have opted to shift form daily reporting to weekly or monthly.
Key data is also missing, such as information by the county or vaccination numbers.
www.axios.com
Key data is also missing, such as information by the county or vaccination numbers.
Some states trim COVID reporting as Delta spurs surge
The trend of reducing reporting worries some health care experts, many of whom believe the more data the better.
www.axios.com
I just don't understand why people won't get vaccinated. If everybody would get vaccinated this disease would have nowhere to go or possibly mutate.
www.al.com
Anti-vaccine Tennessee radio host struggles to breathe after getting COVID
Phil Valentine used his radio show on WWTN-FM in Nashville to spread questionable vaccine takes.
www.al.com
but an unvaccinated person is not a tree with no will or ability or responsibility. A tree falls and blocks the road because it is moved around by nature or fate or some other force. It has no say in the matter and cannot be blamed.
At this point if you are an American and not vaccinated, you're not a fart in the wind, blown to and fro by the whims of the breeze. The great likelihood is that it's a conscious choice you've made and the responsibility is yours to bear. It's not unreasonable to be frustrated and mad at people who are choosing to remain unvaccinated for what amounts to bullshit reasons.
I get your point, and yes, it's true that you get more flies with honey* than with vinegar, but man. I told my mom, and I'll tell any stranger on the street: my kid's at risk because you're a selfish piece of shit? go get fucked with that antiscience, antisocial bullshit. I'm not going to pretend to not care in order to protect anyone's antisocial fee-fees.
*technically you get the most flies with shit
Nurse explains why she doesn't like the term 'healthcare hero
Chucktshoes
Well-Known Member
Enjoy your feelings of moral superiority then.
It's not a feeling of superiority, it's a frustration that fully half of the country is straight up unwilling to do the bare minimum to keep society working. "Keep yourself alive and don't spread plague" is a pretty low bar, which they can meet, but just won't.
Although now that you mention it, i hadn't considered it before, but if it comes down to brass tacks, I am 100% superior to someone who wantonly risks the lives of those that are vulnerable and can't be vaccinated.
I feel pretty solidly superior to someone letting kids and cancer patients and transplant recipients just roll the dice every day based on nothing.
I feel pretty solidly superior to someone letting kids and cancer patients and transplant recipients just roll the dice every day based on nothing.
The GOP is now urging people to get vaccinated. But this push comes too little too late.
Why the change of heart by the GOP? Because the COVID / Delta surge is hitting Wall Street, thus impacting the riches bottom line.
But still, when asked if they would mandate a vaccine the answer is no. It goes against their parties principles. It's a matter of freedom and personal responsibility.
The late push for the vaccine also will hardly have any effect on Trump's base who largely objects getting the vaccine.
Why the change of heart by the GOP? Because the COVID / Delta surge is hitting Wall Street, thus impacting the riches bottom line.
But still, when asked if they would mandate a vaccine the answer is no. It goes against their parties principles. It's a matter of freedom and personal responsibility.
The late push for the vaccine also will hardly have any effect on Trump's base who largely objects getting the vaccine.